Who to gank: Brotherhood or Institute?

[Boombro]

It may be a really good idea to master Skyrim CK for now while you wait.

[Guest deleted2159825]

It may be a really good idea to master Skyrim CK for now while you wait.

I've made a few shitty mods in the CK, but yeah, that's what I should be doing. I have a middling grasp of Papyrus, at best.

[Boombro]

Yeah, you REALLY should if you want to make sure to invest your time and to speed things up when the geck comes out. I don't really think you are the kind of person that want to spend a lot time learning new stuff when the geck drops in 2016.

[Moraelin]

Not sure exactly how much the GECK for FO4 will be similar to the CK for Skyrim. Looking at the actual file structure it will have to work with, there seem to be a few important differences. Might (or might not) need a GUI make-over to use those effectively, I think.

[Boombro]

Not sure exactly how much the GECK for FO4 will be similar to the CK for Skyrim. Looking at the actual file structure it will have to work with, there seem to be a few important differences. Might (or might not) need a GUI make-over to use those effectively, I think.

It should not be that much of a huge difference even if they did changed many stuff.

[Raycheetah]

Funny how some questions seem obvious, but don't occur to you until some time has passed...

 

How, exactly, do renegade synths get out of the Institute? If they relay out, why hasn't a single one of them told the Railroad? I'd expect Desdemona would ask each and every one of them she came across, yet the Molecular Relay is still an unknown. =0[.]o=

[Athanasa]

And ideally in the long run they could conceivably be turned into a more organized army, still under your command. After all, at least the male character is a veteran soldier, and realistically has more idea of actual military organization and tactics than anyone in the BOS. We're moving into fanfic territory here, as that's not in the game, but I feel it's a realistic and achievable outcome once you rule the Commonwealth.

 

The BoS, under Maxon, have regressed which is regretable and while they see the big picture [save humanity rather than just one area] their mission and purpose is deeply flawed. Owen Lyons had it right but sadly his legacy was thrown away and as such I feel that the BoS are on track to becoming a fascist technological hoarding warlord state, keeping most of humanity in ignorance and servitude while they hoard all the sweet tech for themselves.

 

So then the only one fit enough to lead humanity is you.

 

The symbolism is pretty straightforward. The Brotherhood's attitude is represented by the Prydwen - they look down on the ordinary people and treat them as children who are incapable of making responsible decisions. [...] The Brotherhood also helps the Commonwealth to a certain extent (after all they are fighting super mutants, feral ghouls and raiders), but their ideology is inflexible. [...] Still, the Brotherhood was shown to be capable of changing its ways (Elder Lyons / Fallout 3) so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt (although the prejudice of Maxson's Brotherhood against mutants is almost comparable to the Enclave's .

 

Honestly with the Brotherhood I would have loved it if we could spark a rebellion within the chapter. Perhaps bump into a group of the troops who deserted after they saw that the BOS was heading down their crusader path after both Lyons died. With that we could see them go back to simply protecting the people and not bullying people for their energy weapons or power armor. As well as to give up this genocidal tendency with any "abominations". Hell back when Lyons was in power they pretty much gave Fawkes amnesty and he was a god damn mutant. With that said we can see their major force leaving the Commonwealth after having taken out the big threats to the people as well as taking out any experimental weaponry that can wipe out large amounts of people. After which they can leave a small force at Fort Strong to ensure that things run smoothly as the people kick start the CPG once again.

 

AHAA! A chance to convert more to The Cause!

 

Cut Dialogue, become an Elder

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Danse#Behind_the_scenes

 

"Unused dialogue suggests that Paladin Danse and the Sole Survivor were originally able challenge Maxson's authority as Elder through combat according to "the Litany". Through his defeat, it would have allowed Danse to regain his status as Paladin and grant the Sole Survivor the rank of Elder within the Brotherhood."

 

The main issue is that this quest seems to require you to spare Danse. Which sticks you in a somewhat poor position if you're blocked from becoming Elder unless you spare a Synth and let him publicly live. What if you want to be an Elder but believe M7-97 needs to be destroyed?

 

 

 

Nonsensical synth brain based ramblings:

 

 

Also, thinking of the Synth Memory / Reset issue... might it be possible to encode / put a firewall or something on a Synth's memory chip? Also, how DO their memories work? Are the 'initial' memories included on the chip, but any future memories gained through 'living' recorded in the normal manner? Basically, will Synths die if you cut their head open and take out the technical bit? Depending on where it sits in the brain, that is. Is there enough grey mush to leave a human if you take out the electronics?

 

Human brains are simultaneously very delicate and yet very robust. They are vulnerable to damage, but they also show incredible ability to 'repair' and 're-purpose'. My point being, if a Synth has gone years without a checkup (long term escaped Synths away from the Institute), what is the state of the biological parts of their brain?

 

I'm wondering about Danse, of course. 'Cause I have this thing for the Stoic Knight in Armor type. And I want there to be some hypothetical hope that he won't flip out, reset and beep-boop off into the sunset. I chose to imagine that his brain has 'adapted' to human enough and hard-stored its memories in flesh, because it makes me feel better.

 

I was going to write more theories and stuff, but I won't hijack this thread. I'll make a new one.

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Athanasa

[Moraelin]

Funny how some questions seem obvious, but don't occur to you until some time has passed...

 

How, exactly, do renegade synths get out of the Institute? If they relay out, why hasn't a single one of them told the Railroad? I'd expect Desdemona would ask each and every one of them she came across, yet the Molecular Relay is still an unknown. =0[.]o=

 

Valentine does tell you that there is a failsafe that erases that memory. Also you ARE told in the institute that only coursers can come and when they please, well, and you if you join the institute. But you're the only one. Everyone else has to be teleported by someone else.

 

So I'd guess that all that the synths on the surface know is to return to some extraction point when they've done their job up there.

[Athanasa]

Yes, the BOS has the experience, and that does count for something, but their organization and discipline is lacking beyond belief. I've been in the army (although not in any actual combat) in real life, and got to know the BOS in all Fallout games. They've really regressed to a loosely organized militia, even if with better equipment.

 

Thing is, between a group of unorganized supersoldiers and a formation of drilled and disciplined average guys, for as long as we have a recorded history, the latter have won every single time. Drill the minutemen to actually act as formations, with dedicated sections and everything, and to do even the basic stuff like lay suppression fire, pin and flank, use combined arms, etc, and they'll mop the floor with an equal number of knights in power armour every single time. Because the BOS were never shown to do any of that.

 

The BOS has experience fighting, what? Disorganized raiders and supermutants? In the only recorded instances where they fought an even half-way organized army, like the NCR, they lost horribly.

 

And their idea of discipline is... what? Danse actually apologizes for being more demanding with me than with anyone else, when he actually was WAY less demanding than our sergeant was on his most kind days. Arguing with the commanding officer gets you promoted. Failing to do a mission entirely has no repercussions. Etc. That's no more military discipline than the minutemen, or for that matter the raiders have. Event the Gunners have documented cases of being less accommodating about indiscipline.

 

And yes, I'm aware that the Minutemen are nowhere NEAR that kind of discipline and organization... yet. But given some years, you could turn them into a real army. You just have to drill all that into them.

 

Well, given the sort of people Bethesda seems to think will play the game, they were probably worried that small children would break down into tears if any NPC in the game treated them in a way remotely appropriate to a military organisation.

 

"GET DOWN AND GIVE ME PUSH UPS YOU MAGGOT! UNTIL YOU CAN DO 50 IN A ROW WITHOUT BREAKING A SWEAT, YOU AREN'T WORTHY TO WEAR THAT POWER ARMOR!"

"Mommy that man told me I was a maggot I DON'T LIKE THIS GAME SUE BETHESDA!"

 

It's just an extension of the same bulls*** of most games these days. Handle the protagonist with silk gloves. Anyone that's rude to the PC will be killed later.

 

Seriously, the only person that treats your character in a REMOTELY realistic way (I felt) was Rhys. He's lost most of his squad and his power armor, he's wounded and in pain when you meet him... and this random stranger walks in. Of course he's pissy, pain makes you snappy. Then this random lost looking person in a blue jumpsuit goes out and completes the mission. That's just salt in the wounds. And everyone around him inexplicably thinks this person is awesome. Yeah, don't mind me here in my bloodstained orange uniform!

Granted, it got a little bit grating when he was still being an arsehole after 10 quests. And apparently he doesn't react (long term) to your promotions within the BoS. I hear it's one or two lines where he's vaguely respectful, then straight back to the default voice files.

Game progress - your progress - would feel so much more meaningful if there were characters like Rhys to start of as abrasive douchebags who eventually start to show you grudging respect, and eventually look up to you. Or, to turn it the other way, someone that's okay with you when you join, but gets super salty later at your promotion rate. A realistic reaction... and something I'd find downright amusing, given that I find my characters progress through the ranks stupidly fast too. I'd react the same way if I was someone who'd been in the BoS for 5 years, working my fingers to the bone for the Cause, then this human popsicle in a blue leotard waltzes in and gets a rank higher than mine in less than two months.

 

Really, I thought this was an 18 game. So why are they going out of their way to soften stuff?

Edited December 29, 2015 by Athanasa

[Moraelin]

Eh, Rhys is actually in a better mood than some of our NCOs on their best days, and those weren't wounded :tongue:

 

But that's actually the thing. I've been in the army once. I didn't like it. I already took that crap IRL, I don't want it in my games too. Buying a realistic army simulator ranks about as high on my list of fantasies to fulfill as a garbage truck simulator.

 

Basically the game is ok, for a game. Mostly. I just think they should have refrained from making Danse draw attention to it with that apology. And probably it would have worked better if they didn't give me a companion that's supposedly my superior officer, but actually acts like he's under my command. Which he is. Give me an initiate or a scribe (since a knight outranks just about any of those) or something. Or another freshly minted knight, maybe?