Hot Topic #1: The dumbing down of Oblivion

[DeusXMachina]

:wacko: You dont get it do you. Yes, many companies have made bad games but what bethesda has done is unacceptable. The main thing that bethesda has done that angers me is they pressure you into doing something. They made a half ass game which is glitched. Then they release a patch which fixes it but the price is enormous. Take the v1.2.0416 patch for example. This patch fixes the shivering isles as well as oblivion. however this patch renders some mods and parts of your construction set useless. They are now trying to limit the mod community because people find the mods too sexist or too much of a overbalancer for pc users. This is unacceptable as well as for the fact that they now charge money for mods. Also if you didn't here, they're pondering on if they should put a charge fee for the construction set download. The main points of the petition would be the removal of the patch, end of the charge fees, and less bowing to public opinion to shut up the mdding community. if you find this illogical, please inform me!

 

I'd like to see a quote of a dev's statement or another reliable source that they want to charge money for the CS. In fact, here one of the devs clearly stated that the new CS will be released sooner or later, no word about any kind of fee. The same for your claim that they try to limit the mod community. Any proof for this besides the CS issues? Because I don't see any, and I follow discussions on different boards daily.

 

I also do not see why it's unacceptable to charge money for the mods they made. It's business, why should they gift you their work just because you are a socalled "fan". You could always argument about the quality of the DLC and if the community couldn't do the same much better (what they often did), but it's Beth's damned right to charge money for their products as long as there's anybody who wants to pay for it. It's just ridiculous to say "Morrowind wasn't made for the money but for passion" as mustardman did a few posts ago - Morrowind was for the money as well, and Oblivion is it's logical successor.

 

There's a lot on OB which I don't like, it's far from being my dreamgame. I can live with a dumbing down in the game mechanics like lesser skills and such, though it's still a pity. What has really angered me is the cutback of the complexity of the world, concerning lore, dialogues, factions, depth of characters etc. That's a real shame. On the other hand, I really do not understand how everybody can complain about the dumbing down of the game, but appreciate something like the new combat system which I think is absolutely awful. In an RPG I don't want a combat system where it depends on the _player_ if the enemy get's hit rather than on the skill of the _char_. I don't want to train a skill named "keyboard acrobatics", and this system breaks totally immersion.

 

But apart from this, OB imo still is much, much better than a lot of other crap recently thrown onto the market (Dungeon Lords, Gothic III, even NWN2 though I had much fun with this), from the gaming experience as well as from the technical side. I also don't like the "dumbing down" to an ActionRPG instead of a true RPG, but on the other hand I can understand why a company like Bethesda has to make such compromises in order to acquire a broader buyership.

 

There has been a lot of constructive criticism in this thread, but simple stupid Bethesda bashing seems to prevail...

[cyronarxes]

 

:wacko: You dont get it do you. Yes, many companies have made bad games but what bethesda has done is unacceptable. The main thing that bethesda has done that angers me is they pressure you into doing something. They made a half ass game which is glitched. Then they release a patch which fixes it but the price is enormous. Take the v1.2.0416 patch for example. This patch fixes the shivering isles as well as oblivion. however this patch renders some mods and parts of your construction set useless. They are now trying to limit the mod community because people find the mods too sexist or too much of a overbalancer for pc users. This is unacceptable as well as for the fact that they now charge money for mods. Also if you didn't here, they're pondering on if they should put a charge fee for the construction set download. The main points of the petition would be the removal of the patch, end of the charge fees, and less bowing to public opinion to shut up the mdding community. if you find this illogical, please inform me!

 

I'd like to see a quote of a dev's statement or another reliable source that they want to charge money for the CS. In fact, here one of the devs clearly stated that the new CS will be released sooner or later, no word about any kind of fee. The same for your claim that they try to limit the mod community. Any proof for this besides the CS issues? Because I don't see any, and I follow discussions on different boards daily.

 

I also do not see why it's unacceptable to charge money for the mods they made. It's business, why should they gift you their work just because you are a socalled "fan". You could always argument about the quality of the DLC and if the community couldn't do the same much better (what they often did), but it's Beth's damned right to charge money for their products as long as there's anybody who wants to pay for it. It's just ridiculous to say "Morrowind wasn't made for the money but for passion" as mustardman did a few posts ago - Morrowind was for the money as well, and Oblivion is it's logical successor.

 

There's a lot on OB which I don't like, it's far from being my dreamgame. I can live with a dumbing down in the game mechanics like lesser skills and such, though it's still a pity. What has really angered me is the cutback of the complexity of the world, concerning lore, dialogues, factions, depth of characters etc. That's a real shame. On the other hand, I really do not understand how everybody can complain about the dumbing down of the game, but appreciate something like the new combat system which I think is absolutely awful. In an RPG I don't want a combat system where it depends on the _player_ if the enemy get's hit rather than on the skill of the _char_. I don't want to train a skill named "keyboard acrobatics", and this system breaks totally immersion.

 

But apart from this, OB imo still is much, much better than a lot of other crap recently thrown onto the market (Dungeon Lords, Gothic III, even NWN2 though I had much fun with this), from the gaming experience as well as from the technical side. I also don't like the "dumbing down" to an ActionRPG instead of a true RPG, but on the other hand I can understand why a company like Bethesda has to make such compromises in order to acquire a broader buyership.

 

There has been a lot of constructive criticism in this thread, but simple stupid Bethesda bashing seems to prevail...

CALM DOWN! 8). Anyways you ask for links to prove my assurtions. well here you go. This here proves bethesda bows to public opinion and they even state that they were trying to stop pornographic modding. also Povohulo wisely told me the 1.2 patch limits modding. Read his wise words here. Finally this cur, Todd howard, proclaims his product in the name of xbox 360 and repeatedly flames the pc. It almost sounds like he is part of microsoft and made the game engines design for a xbox 360. it can be read here. Damn you todd howard, damn you. You pissed me off so much i want to start shoving toothpicks you f****** xbox nazi. DAMN YOU TO HELL! Sorry, Todd Howard just really pisses me off. Now back to the subject. I believe I have given you enough links. I would give you more but I don't fell like durfing the web any longer. Now I hope you understand why I desire a petition.

[Povuholo]

CALM DOWN! 8). Anyways you ask for links to prove my assurtions. well here you go. This here proves bethesda bows to public opinion and they even state that they were trying to stop pornographic modding. also Povohulo wisely told me the 1.2 patch limits modding. Read his wise words here. Finally this cur, Todd howard, proclaims his product in the name of xbox 360 and repeatedly flames the pc. It almost sounds like he is part of microsoft and made the game engines design for a xbox 360. it can be read here. Damn you todd howard, damn you. You pissed me off so much i want to start shoving toothpicks you f****** xbox nazi. DAMN YOU TO HELL! Sorry, Todd Howard just really pisses me off. Now back to the subject. I believe I have given you enough links. I would give you more but I don't fell like durfing the web any longer. Now I hope you understand why I desire a petition.

Calm down? He didn't flame, he didn't talk in caps, he was just showing his opinion. It looks like you should calm down instead.

 

The only way they intended to stop the 'pornographic modding' was by preventing the players from using the original files. The reason ESRB changed the rating was because the naked breasts file was on the game disc, created by Bethesda. Modders are still allowed and able to create their own, because Bethesda isn't responsible for third party modifications which don't use their files. They couldn't really ignore the issue, could they? Negative publicity, angry parents...

 

The 1.2 patch doesn't intentionally limit modding. It's a bug accidentally created by the patch, and DeusXMachina already gave a link in which was said that Bethesda is trying to fix it.

 

Shivering Isles/the 1.2 patch doesn't break some mods because they were trying to ruin the community, which they are not. It's because of all the things the expansion added. It can conflict with mods. If a mod is made with the 1.1 patch and someone wants to run it with the 1.2 patch there could be problems because of what the patch changed. (If someone can explain this better, please do)

 

And I didn't see Todd flaming the PC.

[cyronarxes]

And I didn't see Todd flaming the PC.

This is what Todd saidwhich upset me. "On the pc, you only get some of oblivion while on the xbox 360 you get oblivion in all of its glory. Everyone, buy a hd monitor, please, you get everything". Yes I know he has said worse comments but this is just an example of what he said that insulted me like as if he was putting xbox 360 gamers above pc gamers. I told her to calm down because she was dissing Mustardman about his comment on morrowind. Also why is everyone all of a suddden hating on me and mustardman for what we said!

[mustardman]

Ok guys, this should cap off the topic. Oblivion is a good game, it is. Morrowind is a Fantasmic game. (Yeah, I made it up) THats it thats all, but thats how devs learn. They put outta game they think th people will love, and hopefully they will hear the uproar in the community and see that they did please the console fanboys, congrats, its not hard. But they didnt please the passionate fans. I have oblivion on PC and XBOX, I dont suggest anybody really dis vanilla however till you've played console. There are some things, some, not many, that do beat pc. Number one, the affordability, number two, the comfortable and simpilized controls, the non buggy scripts, I have never had a bug on console, at least with my later version, baught it yesterday. And it also easier to just kick back, chill and enjoy the amazing visuals, on pc, the LOD looked like shat on vanilla, even with a top notch comp, no way around it, but on the console, its tottally beauty, a little soupy, but way better than pc. Dont ask why, thats how I see it when I compare both vanilla, thats key, no mods. Yes there are definitly mods, or just SI expansion, better than any mod. The reason console has better visuals, is simple. The game was made for console, its 100% made for the hardware in ps3's and the box. With our pc's, there too much room for erroer, be it bad configuration or low ram. Its that simple as far as graphics go, the box is better, unless you have an 8800 gtx, that will blow the box and ps3 outta the water for sure, I guarantee it. Anyways, I hate to say this you guys, but it looks like since the development of next gen console, pc's a a dieng breed.(I HATE IT) But sadly, the console are cheaper, easier to make for the public as far as compatibility, and lets face it, they are becoming amazingly powerful. I am a PC owner, and love them over any console, but you can call me a double face gamer, I love both.

[cyronarxes]

Ok guys, this should cap off the topic. Oblivion is a good game, it is. Morrowind is a Fantasmic game. (Yeah, I made it up) THats it thats all, but thats how devs learn. They put outta game they think th people will love, and hopefully they will hear the uproar in the community and see that they did please the console fanboys, congrats, its not hard. But they didnt please the passionate fans. I have oblivion on PC and XBOX, I dont suggest anybody really dis vanilla however till you've played console. There are some things, some, not many, that do beat pc. Number one, the affordability, number two, the comfortable and simpilized controls, the non buggy scripts, I have never had a bug on console, at least with my later version, baught it yesterday. And it also easier to just kick back, chill and enjoy the amazing visuals, on pc, the LOD looked like shat on vanilla, even with a top notch comp, no way around it, but on the console, its tottally beauty, a little soupy, but way better than pc. Dont ask why, thats how I see it when I compare both vanilla, thats key, no mods. Yes there are definitly mods, or just SI expansion, better than any mod. The reason console has better visuals, is simple. The game was made for console, its 100% made for the hardware in ps3's and the box. With our pc's, there too much room for erroer, be it bad configuration or low ram. Its that simple as far as graphics go, the box is better, unless you have an 8800 gtx, that will blow the box and ps3 outta the water for sure, I guarantee it. Anyways, I hate to say this you guys, but it looks like since the development of next gen console, pc's a a dieng breed.(I HATE IT) But sadly, the console are cheaper, easier to make for the public as far as compatibility, and lets face it, they are becoming amazingly powerful. I am a PC owner, and love them over any console, but you can call me a double face gamer, I love both.

It is a sad truth. see my topic decline of PC gaming.

[DeusXMachina]

CALM DOWN! Damn you todd howard, damn you. You pissed me off so much i want to start shoving toothpicks you f****** xbox nazi. DAMN YOU TO HELL! Sorry, Todd Howard just really pisses me off.

 

And YOU tell ME to calm down? You're not really aiming to be taken seriously, aren't you? Sorry, but what do you expect a member of BethSoft Company to tell people on a platform like xbox.com? That xbox sucks, they'd rather develop only for the PC community, that the modding community is the best that a gaming company and the game itself can get, and that everybody playing OB on console is a complete moron? Sorry, but everybody should be able to distinguish pure marketing chitchat from real arguments.

[cyronarxes]

 

CALM DOWN! Damn you todd howard, damn you. You pissed me off so much i want to start shoving toothpicks you f****** xbox nazi. DAMN YOU TO HELL! Sorry, Todd Howard just really pisses me off.

 

And YOU tell ME to calm down? You're not really aiming to be taken seriously, aren't you? Sorry, but what do you expect a member of BethSoft Company to tell people on a platform like xbox.com? That xbox sucks, they'd rather develop only for the PC community, that the modding community is the best that a gaming company and the game itself can get, and that everybody playing OB on console is a complete moron? Sorry, but everybody should be able to distinguish pure marketing chitchat from real arguments.

Why do you insist on harrasing me for stating an opinion? im not saying that he should say xbox sucks however, i don;t believe it was correct of hime to favor asystem over another. Its almost as if bethesda and other game companies are forming a "Trust" with Microsoft. They're making they're games specifically for microsoft. Microsoft is becoming a world monopoly and if left unchallenged will conquer the global electronic bussiness. I am tired of companies making deals with microsoft and endorsing they're product every where. i am not angry but rather passinate about my opinion over microsoft. However you keep subliminally harrassing me and I would kindly ask if you would stop poking at me becuase of my ideals. All in all, if you don't like xbox and play the pc or other consoles, your in trouble becuase most games these days are designed for xbox 360. A perfect example of this was oblivion in its vanilla form and as mustardman wisely pointed out again, was mostly intended for the xbox 360. I don't want games to be designed for one sytem or another but rather universally for all systems like they were in the old days ( :( Gosh I miss those happy years with my playstion, dang you Xbox 360, Dang you!). Yet your probably going to make fun of me again but this is simply my opinion.

[mustardman]

 

CALM DOWN! Damn you todd howard, damn you. You pissed me off so much i want to start shoving toothpicks you f****** xbox nazi. DAMN YOU TO HELL! Sorry, Todd Howard just really pisses me off.

 

And YOU tell ME to calm down? You're not really aiming to be taken seriously, aren't you? Sorry, but what do you expect a member of BethSoft Company to tell people on a platform like xbox.com? That xbox sucks, they'd rather develop only for the PC community, that the modding community is the best that a gaming company and the game itself can get, and that everybody playing OB on console is a complete moron? Sorry, but everybody should be able to distinguish pure marketing chitchat from real arguments.

Why do you insist on harrasing me for stating an opinion? im not saying that he should say xbox sucks however, i don;t believe it was correct of hime to favor asystem over another. Its almost as if bethesda and other game companies are forming a "Trust" with Microsoft. They're making they're games specifically for microsoft. Microsoft is becoming a world monopoly and if left unchallenged will conquer the global electronic bussiness. I am tired of companies making deals with microsoft and endorsing they're product every where. i am not angry but rather passinate about my opinion over microsoft. However you keep subliminally harrassing me and I would kindly ask if you would stop poking at me becuase of my ideals. All in all, if you don't like xbox and play the pc or other consoles, your in trouble becuase most games these days are designed for xbox 360. A perfect example of this was oblivion in its vanilla form and as mustardman wisely pointed out again, was mostly intended for the xbox 360. I don't want games to be designed for one sytem or another but rather universally for all systems like they were in the old days ( :( Gosh I miss those happy years with my playstion, dang you Xbox 360, Dang you!). Yet your probably going to make fun of me again but this is simply my opinion.

 

Thanx for not calling me douche for my opinion, alotta gys cant bear the fact that the game was made for console. Its something im against as it was a pc based rpg company to begin with. Im pc all the way, but sometimes company go with the media and the masses, sorry folks, thats hgow she go's in buisness.

[cyronarxes]

 

CALM DOWN! Damn you todd howard, damn you. You pissed me off so much i want to start shoving toothpicks you f****** xbox nazi. DAMN YOU TO HELL! Sorry, Todd Howard just really pisses me off.

 

And YOU tell ME to calm down? You're not really aiming to be taken seriously, aren't you? Sorry, but what do you expect a member of BethSoft Company to tell people on a platform like xbox.com? That xbox sucks, they'd rather develop only for the PC community, that the modding community is the best that a gaming company and the game itself can get, and that everybody playing OB on console is a complete moron? Sorry, but everybody should be able to distinguish pure marketing chitchat from real arguments.

Why do you insist on harrasing me for stating an opinion? im not saying that he should say xbox sucks however, i don;t believe it was correct of hime to favor asystem over another. Its almost as if bethesda and other game companies are forming a "Trust" with Microsoft. They're making they're games specifically for microsoft. Microsoft is becoming a world monopoly and if left unchallenged will conquer the global electronic bussiness. I am tired of companies making deals with microsoft and endorsing they're product every where. i am not angry but rather passinate about my opinion over microsoft. However you keep subliminally harrassing me and I would kindly ask if you would stop poking at me becuase of my ideals. All in all, if you don't like xbox and play the pc or other consoles, your in trouble becuase most games these days are designed for xbox 360. A perfect example of this was oblivion in its vanilla form and as mustardman wisely pointed out again, was mostly intended for the xbox 360. I don't want games to be designed for one sytem or another but rather universally for all systems like they were in the old days ( :( Gosh I miss those happy years with my playstion, dang you Xbox 360, Dang you!). Yet your probably going to make fun of me again but this is simply my opinion.

 

Thanx for not calling me douche for my opinion, alotta gys cant bear the fact that the game was made for console. Its something im against as it was a pc based rpg company to begin with. Im pc all the way, but sometimes company go with the media and the masses, sorry folks, thats hgow she go's in buisness.

The problem I have was that bethesda was not only being bias against pc, they were also being bias against the playstation. I mean they never released any patches for the playstation nor did they spend the time to put any mods on the playstation. Also the specs were more designed for 360 than playstation as shown

. Can you notice how more clear and realistic it looks on the 360. I know this is going to sound crazy but I think playstation is a dying breed as well as the pc. I mean microsoft has already bought sony's launch titles such as final fantasy and devil may cry. I am scared that the 360 may overrun most of gaming in general.