Meltdown - This game is just F'n lazy!

[Guest deleted2588518]

My issue with this game isn't that its easy. I can fix that. It isn't that its shallow. I can also fix that.

My issue with this game is that, unless the official mod tools allow for more options to mod, this game is, and will remain unmoddable to some extent. Forcing heavy scripting with F4SE might fix a few things, but if you can't disable or replace some core aspects of this game... Then there isn't any point in modding it to begin with.

 

And my personal opinion is that FO4 is its default state is a horrible attempt to ape another game studio's method of development without 1; understanding any aspects of it and 2; being so incredibly lazy that their attempt was half-baked and unfixable.

 

If I can't alter the forced VATS criticals or actually add a skill system like previous Fallout games with the official tools or a complete FO4Edit.. then I'll just remove FO4 from my steam list and go back to FONV and Skyrim and abandon FO4 completely. As it stands right now its insufferably simplified and suffers from the worst case of consolitis in any Bethesda game to date.

 

If I can't mod what I want fixed then its a huge step in the wrong direction. Something I don't want to believe is going to happen. And if it does? Best of luck to them because if the mod community can't do what they want they won't play or buy them again. And with the number of bugs and lack of any real effort put into production... Like I said, best of luck to them.

 

If the next game they produce is on this level of consolitis I'm seriously just going to abandon Bethesda completely and return to their older titles that I can mod till the sun comes up. And I don't want to have to do that, but with Obsidian pushed out of the possible development studios I have very little hope Bethesda will go back to its roots and not drop off the cliff into the pit of lazy console design. People are already comparing FO4 to Witcher 3. Sadly, as shallow and simplistic as Witcher is for an RPG... it beats FO4 by miles. AND LOOKS BETTER!

 

I've put FO4 down until I get some finished mod tools. Then I'll decide if its worth actually picking up again. If I or someone else can't fix the perk system or introduce a meaningful skill system, no amount of nice textures or weather and lighting mods are going to bring me back to this game.

[KimberJ]

God, you're unbearable.

 

TMD is the OP pay more attention an read what he says above, it's good stuff, an yeah I know everybody hates me, pack a lunch, an stand in line, cause you'll be here all day.

[KimberJ]

Console itis get it? ROFL

 

I think maybe Bethesda put the mini games in to remind us what playing games is, simple fun, that we don't care all that much about, the idea that died long ago, that someone will make games, an whatever it is we'll just play it, a much more simple time. Whatever FO4 is I haven't experienced it enough to comet. (comment, LOL) With maybe 30 hours of play, 10 hours of testing if that, an 60+ hours working on it. Though pretty much I'm still incrementally updating a house mod, a character, and a new XP table an reward system based on privious games, which excitingly enough in the last iteration became an organic version of the XP tables in FO1/FO2/FO3/FNV/BOS, organic cause it all got referenced an mixed together, an going with it standardized XP rewards based on what felt the best in FO3.

 

The original was a few years ago but had a months work in it, although it was possible to do all the math for that one, kind of unfortunate for the idea in FO4, it's just too much math to get a text based table in math. Whatever though, organic works too. Actually working on publishing it now. What I would say is don't get so close to it you go blind. You like the game, or at least parts of it, an you got a good idea of what we do in Fallout with this, so slow down an go steady instead. If you back out, you'll miss all the stuff we are learning. Then also you just might find some good organic ideas that will help if you do go forward. A modder already told me here that playing Skyrim while modding FO4 was a good way to fix the problems we got with it, cause I kind of feel like this horses*** is temporary.

 

Some dick was upset with me for my diagnosis in tech support, an I disappeared for 11 days, didn't really do much with FO4, but got bunches of console ports on the rig for the Xbox 360 controller I was lucky enough to have money for finally, omg, finally. You mentioned it, but console ports are a little better with the console controler, though ROFL we can't shoot for s*** ha Hah! It could be the same, stuff got real, an it's time to back away from this possible turd, but like I said, bad to disappear entirely. What I did was try to only be steady an slow, pass this time until we get a SDK for whatever this is, it could be great an we'd never know using alpha releases, an actually I'm looking at software that costs way way too much money, an actually was thinking of buying a car instead, ROFL. It's just like FO3, stuff is messed up, no big deal.

[KimberJ]

Yeah I forgot I make a post for pictures in our forum @ there's a display at the top for the really old stuff I learned how to mod FO3/FNV with, I kept the pictures after I had deleted so many, now I try to make pictures of anything an keep it for later, just too look. Also it helps to get away from modding an talk with the players in their forums even though it's terrible sometimes. There's also the official forums for the game @ http://forums.bethsoft.com/ in the past really talented modders kind of hid there or came out of there. You know, mix it up, an don't forget all the great stuff on the official game website @ https://fallout4.com/ besides the deep archive of the past games, an hidden info, concepts ideas, developer blogs an such, the new version of the website is fantastic. Good to clear the mind an get into the game, well, since we already own it, LOL.

[Guest deleted2588518]

You mentioned it, but console ports are a little better with the console controler

 

This is one of the primary issues with Bethesda. They don't make PC games anymore. And the games they *port* to PC have little to no effort put into them to make them functional.

If I was satisfied with console level graphics, console level depth and console level effort in design. I would own a console.

However, most of the UI issues can and already have been resolved. I'm waiting for separated keybindings. having combined keybinds is some seriously pathetic console bullshit. And the fact that they didn't make the slightest effort to make it PC friendly smacks of laziness. But again, they don't make PC games. They make console games. I have zero faith in them to make an effort for the PC community when all see us as is a means of extra revenue and to use our mods for their own ends.

 

Morrowind, despite what ravenous fanboys would tell you, was completely broken in most aspects of the game on release. And even after the kit came out and the mod community went to town, it still had massive flaws compared to its predecessors. Daggerfall had some serious bugs, and did have skills and abilities that had overlap. It wasn't a perfect game. But it was and still has far, FAR more depth than anything after it. The trend has only gotten worse. As it stands now, Bethesda no longer makes RPGs. They make action shooters. Perfect for the console market.

 

No need to think. No need to read. No sense of depth or difficulty. Just shoot things and watch the pretty colors. Its perfect for the console market because that's the thing they want. Its good business. I fully understand that. But the moment they remove the potential for the game to be modded to suit a more RPG aspect? Skyrim was borderline. Had it not been for some amazing mods here on the nexus I wouldn't have gotten into it at all. But even as shallow as Vanilla Skyrim was... It still had the structure to allow a more complex system to be made. FO4 may not have that. At least, not from what I've seen from its guts.

 

IDK, maybe its possible if you can strip out some aspects from the .swf files to disable them and then use alternate methods to emulate skills. I can currently fake AVskills in FO4Edit, but using those AVskills? IDK. Weapons run off perks, not AV attributes. I would have to create a perk for every skill and then tie that perk to an AV keyword to then have it tied to a fake AVskill. Its a workaround but it "might" function. But you still can't effect say, weapon spread from those fake skills like the old AV small guns. I could just replace everything, but there is no guarantee it will even work. Since the UI .swf files override specific aspects of character stats. Which is why the VATS combat system is a problem for me right now. The UI VATS scripts, once you trigger the critical meter, use a whole different set of settings for chance to hit and weapon damage. And that isn't something I'm currently able to circumvent. I've been looking for a way to disable it completely, but the game just crashes when it can't find the UI elements. Which leads me to believe its been hard-coded into the engine. If that is the case, F4SE scripting and the CC can't touch those aspects of the game. Which will be incredibly frustrating.

 

The UI elements for something like say, a SkyUI to remake the interface or how and what can be used in the pip-boy are all fine and good. Those I expect to come along whenever. But major issues with the combat system... or being able to emulate if not replace the stat system is a completely different matter.

[Aintiarna]

 

 

IDK, maybe its possible if you can strip out some aspects from the .swf files to disable them and then use alternate methods to emulate skills. I can currently fake AVskills in FO4Edit, but using those AVskills? IDK. Weapons run off perks, not AV attributes. I would have to create a perk for every skill and then tie that perk to an AV keyword to then have it tied to a fake AVskill. Its a workaround but it "might" function. But you still can't effect say, weapon spread from those fake skills like the old AV small guns. I could just replace everything, but there is no guarantee it will even work. Since the UI .swf files override specific aspects of character stats. Which is why the VATS combat system is a problem for me right now. The UI VATS scripts, once you trigger the critical meter, use a whole different set of settings for chance to hit and weapon damage. And that isn't something I'm currently able to circumvent. I've been looking for a way to disable it completely, but the game just crashes when it can't find the UI elements. Which leads me to believe its been hard-coded into the engine. If that is the case, F4SE scripting and the CC can't touch those aspects of the game. Which will be incredibly frustrating.

 

The UI elements for something like say, a SkyUI to remake the interface or how and what can be used in the pip-boy are all fine and good. Those I expect to come along whenever. But major issues with the combat system... or being able to emulate if not replace the stat system is a completely different matter.

 

 

FO4Edit is in the early Alpha stages of development. Many of the games internals haven't been decoded yet. Take a look at all the null references for starters. We can't even touch scripting. The FO4 CK is just a twinkle in Bethesda's eye at the moment. Personally I think you need to just put the game down, go play something else you enjoy for a bit and just chill out. ;) I mean that in the nicest possible way. I'm quite confident a lot of these problems will be a distant memory a year from now. Getting the perk and skill system rebuilt will be one of the top priorities. An awful lot of other mods will depend upon it.

[KimberJ]

*looked up* zomg I'm a script kiddie, no script, :sad: :sad: :sad: so sad

 

We love hearing about the old days you know. Just saying. I came in just after FO3 launch when I found out we could mod it an started learning how. It changed with Skyrim an I tried learning it but the time wasn't right to really dive into it for me. I kept working on Skyrim though. I don't even like TES. I played Oblivion an couldn't get out of the tutorial an the same for KOTOR, don't you dare tell anyone. ROFL baaaaaaahhhhh HAH HAH! Seriously though I do love TES it was just hard to get in. So if you meet any other wasters that couldn't get into TES try to encourage them, it's something we shouldn't ever miss out on.

 

Gopher said it best "The game & mods won't get good till about a year after launch" You should know this pretty well, the death patches that are coming for this game. We thought we had problems before the whole alpha release thing or the addicted to settlement building thing. You know a game mechanic opposite of actually playing the game which in my case made me not want to play after a while. I'm not saying that, but it could be possible, as it's not in testing anymore, it's in our world. On that note, what is an .swf file?

 

I wouldn't say either way if anything is hardcoded till the GECK comes out, you know, unless I was a programmer, an if I was I sure as f*** wouldn't be talking here, it's illogical. LOL well maybe at times but still. Console ports are not a big deal anymore. I mean if you remember the 1980's we'd play danged anything an love it, an that kept on going until the death of the arcade. I realized it was all console ports a long time ago, but that's because the market is like more than 75% console, in fact we could say it's the entire market.

 

It's bad business to put anything on PC, an yet these companies do it out of the love for gaming they had which at one time was PC, an every game is made on PC, if it plays well or not really is beside the point now. FO4 was designed to gross a billion dollars from release. I don't think anyone could say s*** about that. If Bethesda didn't make money, like massive amounts of money, Zenimax would close that s*** down yo. I know I would, an as you know we love Bethesda. It's just math, LOL.

 

I ended up just buying a Xbox 360 controller just cause most of the games I have are designed for that an play like s*** with a keyboard an mouse, however, for about $80 we can hook up a keyboard an mouse to a console, an it's borderline considered cheating, because a PC gamer in a FPS is basically pwnage overkill LOL, but not technically illegal. Though the fact remains that I can't do the many other things with it, an I'm not that big of a gamer at 38 years old, there are many things I do that I really enjoy, got nothing to do with games. PC gaming rigs are just fine for me, as shitty as the games ever become, cause I still got so many old games I can ENB or some other crazy PC gamer idea.

 

You can check out http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/6767/? got published, an as always took way too much time to publish, I was playing the game for a change, an decided to put it out cause the rewards looked more correct on kills from the last incremental update. Not that I give a s***, but it does present better which is another goal, as absurd as the idea is to make an publish a mod right now. Really need a buttload of math an play testing to set this correct, but eh, it happened. Wasn't thinking about anything other than trying to share something I made while I was playing, an built it for me to play.

 

It's called a postmortem, you tried to do something, an the f***ing s*** failed epic like, you gota celebrate that expeditionary s***, cause not many of us go that far, my last one was changing statics to containers like in Skyrim, couldn't find a single container (multibound I guess), the one before that was Ai for radroaches to skitter around, an the wings popped up an they didn't scatter or skidder around, an the damn thing looked so freakishly scary in oddness I wanted to turn off my computer, LOL, Maybe I just do the funny s***.

[Belthan]

 

I'm waiting for separated keybindings. having combined keybinds is some seriously pathetic console bulls***.

 

Amen. I got movement & combat keys pretty much where I want them, but it made crafting a pain in the arse. Example: the E key (which I use for jump) now doesn't work in many crafting & looks menu situations so I have to click accept with the mouse.

[Lisnpuppy]

That's one of the major reasons I got into modding in the first place. I started back when they released the kit for Morrowind. I've been elbow deep in the guts of these games for a long time and the only reason I'm still a huge fan of them is because of the scope in which each of these games can be altered.

 

What I'm finding frustrating, is that maybe that potential is being removed. Or intentionally crippled to boost the sales of a specific platform release. I'm quite cynical when it comes to business. And Bethesda's only interest is to make money. They went console a long time ago because they believe that's where the sales are. And they are correct. But its the PC side that's keeping them afloat. Without the mod-community there wouldn't be the innovations FO3 or Skyrim were so heavily praised for.

 

Anyways. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket and bring people down. But I needed to vent about something I'm passionate about. I just loathe the idea that the ability to create may be stifled do to some marketing strategy.

 

@ LisnPuppy - Mantronix or Beck?

 

Beck :) But thanks for the other groove

[KimberJ]

3rd person mode has a delayed control reaction/response feels like a one second delay but idk what it is, 1st person on the other hand doesn't have any delay, an notice yourself entering 1st person more often than you would normally. XD I'm done son, just about nobody likes me. I'll either have to be a ghost author or vanish. *POOF*