Why are people still putting items ingame only through console?

[Riddem]

So I don't mod. Haven't the faintest clue as to what modders go through. But as I've noticed a few mods being craftable and now see some mods that are availabe for purchase at certain vendors I had to ask myself, why are people still modding items only available through the console? I guess my question is that is it really that hard to place items in the game without the geck? Or are people just being lazy? I'm honestly confused.

As a person that lives and breathes immersion and immersion mods I wont install a mod that I have to use the console to get an item. Infact out of over 25 mods I'm running the only thing I have used the console for is settler renaming and even that bugs the crap out of me. At first I thought "Oh well without the geck that's the only way to put items in the game, guess I'll have to wait". Then I'm seeing now people putting items in the game that are only available to purchase through vendors.

Would anyone be kind enough to explain to me why this is the way it is?

Thanks,

 

Riddem

[nonoodles]

Lazy? I imagine yes, it's probably exasperating to place items in the game world without the CK. You'd have to fiddle around with XYZ values to get it right. Or maybe they don't want to use the available pre-CK tools, which is sensible of them. They did at least put in some effort, no matter how minuscule in your eyes, towards making a mod and probably don't give a whistle about anybody's Ralph Waldo Emerson.

[Riddem]

I'm not trying insult anyones efforts here. Just curious as to why so few have taken this route when it's entirely possible to place items in game. Are you saying it's just plain easier to not make an item either craftable or available through other means?

[jcdenton2012]

Well... the GECK creates a 3d interface where you can easily place an item into the game world. It's kind of hard to place an item into a game world where you can't see the world, to interact with it. Now, there are a few programs which allow similar immulation to a GECK, but the key word to that statement is 'similar.' Similar as in, 'it might work, but could easily jack up your game similar.' Therefore, most people air on the side of caution and just put it in another characters inventory to purchase or add it as a craftable item since altering those variables is slightly less dangerous than altering the game world itself.

[Moraelin]

Craftable, yes, but some don't fit the existing categories for crafting. E.g., where should you craft sunglasses, from what's included in the game? The chemistry station or the cooking station? Because really those are the choices in vanilla.

 

Well, there are mods that allow you to craft sunglasses, but then you'd have to make another mod a requirement. And you'd have to do something you shouldn't do: make an .esp that has another .esp as a master. Normally you should only have .esm files as masters.

 

I hope you can see how I'm less than thrilled by both prospects: both that someone would NEED an extra mod to use mine (and then have people come with "OMG, your mod made my game crash" when they try to use it without the master) and that they'd need to pay attention to load order because it's an .esp that can go anywhere in relation to another .esp, as far as the game is concerned (and have a bunch of people come with "OMG, your mod made my game crash" when they don't pay attention to load order.)

 

As for other ways of placing it into the world, well, without scripting quests to modify the lists -- which IS a heck of a lot easier with the CK -- it's a recipe for conflicts. Just editing the lists, so some raiders or vendors or containers have the sunglasses as loot, will conflict with everything that changes the same levelled lists. Beth's engine doesn't merge changes if more than one mod edits them. The last loaded mod "wins", the other mods' changes to the same lists are ignored.

 

So, umm, yeah, I could create some conflicts just so some people don't have to do the minimal effort of pulling down the console and typing exactly two commands. (Not to mention, cause some "OMG, the mod doesn't work, Carla doesn't sell anything like that" posts" in the process. Which, really, I'm not even disparaging, because that's exactly what such a conflict causes: the mod no longer does some of what it said on the tin.)

[TeamBacon]

The simple answer is, the real modding doesn't start until the creation kit is released. Right now we are just in pre-modding phase.

[Moraelin]

Dunno, it still is by definition modding. It's just the... wild frontier stage of it, when hardy men and women chop some rough and uneven planks with a hand-axe to even make a chair to sit on. The end result might not be as polished as when the whole industry and infrastructure catch up.

[KonfuciousK]

Yeah... and trying to learn from scratch during this stage is challenging to say the least!

[TeamBacon]

Dunno, it still is by definition modding. It's just the... wild frontier stage of it, when hardy men and women chop some rough and uneven planks with a hand-axe to even make a chair to sit on. The end result might not be as polished as when the whole industry and infrastructure catch up.

 

My point is really for the people new to modding, that didn't even know the Nexus existed until after November 10th. The world they are seeing right now is not the real modding world, and they can't simply go watch videos of 'Skyrim Mods Weekly' and wonder, 'Well, why hasn't Fallout 4 got that yet?'.

 

This is a time where the people who love to tinker will tinker, and the people who love to play with the base code and do things from scratch will play with the base code.

 

But it is also a time where 98% of the people who make armors and weapons and companions and quests are sitting back drawing concept art, or working on models in Maya, or writing dialogue in wordpad as opposed to even attempting to mod. *That 98% number is purely my rough estimate with no actual factual backing*

 

I personally believe my time is better spent preparing for the creation kit release, than trying to create something without it. Just like videogame studios have pre-production before making a game, I am deep into the pre-production stage of my mod while I like the code people do their code work.

 

All respect to the code people and the tinkerers, keep doing what you do. That just isn't my area of skill.

 

 

 

Though honestly, it is not having a fully functional Nifskope that bottlenecks anything I would want to do more so than the creation kit itself.

[mwhenry16]

Speaking from a rookie point of view (started using mods and tinkering 1 year ago with FNV and Skyrim) I would say it is partly because someone is new and console is very often the most prevalent thing to show up on a google search, so it's their first introduction to "un-vanilla" game use, for lack of a better term. Or they may have started using mods, and don't realize there are mods for what they want. Or they may not want to mod at all, they just want the gear. Lazy, no. Stupid, no. It's progression and/or choice.