Synth Based Ramblings and Theories

[Athanasa]

Some Background Facts

Fallout 4 is set in 2287.

Fallout 3 is set in 2277.

The "Broken Mask" incident in Diamond City with the malfunctioning Synth known as "Mr. Carter" was in 2229.

The "Broken Mask" incident happened 58 years before the start of the game.

Harkness was manufactured on 2242.

Harkness is an android, not a Gen 3 Synth.

We don't know when Harkness becomes security chief of Rivet City.

Shaun is 60 years old (probably rounded) when you meet him.

Shaun is extracted from the vault around 2227.

Unfrozen Shaun would have been less than 5 years old during the "Broken Mask" incident. (Taking into account potential rounding with his age in 2287)

Gen 3 Synths are mostly biological [Or not? But then this still confuses me with how Danse could be a frontline BoS member for 10 years and not be outed.]

Danse was a member of the Brotherhood of Steel in 2277. (His sponsor fell in 2277 at Adams Air Force Base)

Danse is a Gen 3 Synth.

 

 

Broken Mask Incident

Mr. Carter came into town earlier that day, saying that he was from out west somewhere. His smile, his laugh, and the way he'd make everyone feel at ease quickly won him the affection of the crowds. That night, at the bar, everyone crowded around him to talk to him or hear about the state of the Commonwealth.

After three hours and four or five drinks inside, everyone was tipsy, but happy. As was Mr. Carter, smiling his smile. In an instant, he stopped smiling. His cheek started twitching and he reached inside his coat for his revolver and started shooting with no hesitation or emotion. The bartender was the first person to die. Twitching constantly, Mr. Carter continued firing, killing three or four people before he was gunned down by Diamond City security. Examining the shot up corpse, the inhabitants realized that Mr. Carter was actually an early Gen 3 synth: Synthetic organic flesh coating plastic and metal insides. This led to widespread paranoia about synth infiltrators that persisted well into the 2280s.

Mr. Carter, not being biological (I can't tell from the wording if "synthetic organic flesh" means non-biological materials that FEEL like flesh, or synthesised flesh) does not count as a full Gen 3 synth. Also, as Shaun would have to have been under 5 years old when Mr. Carter was created, it would be VERY strange if Mr. Carter was a full Gen 3 synth. Not that this info gives us anything - it's just a set of interesting observations.

 

How Obvious are the Synth Parts?

I imagine they are actually very well hidden. If my theory about Danse is correct, there was never a non-synth Danse that joined the Brotherhood, as his Brotherhood DNA data matches the Institutes records. This means that Danse's synth status went unnoticed throughout all his time in the Brotherhood. Danse himself has been in the Brotherhood for over 10 years, yet any metal parts in his head have not been picked up in any medical examinations. Danse rose through the Brotherhood ranks through his actions on the field - it is highly likely he has been wounded many times, as evidenced by his scars.

We know the Brotherhood has the technology to run DNA tests and X-Ray machines. They may even have access to more high-tech medical equipment... although the fact that they ask you to search for electromagnets for Prime could imply that they don't have anything medical running off such equipment. That or it's just a Bethesda quest.

The fact that any synth components Danse may contain have not been picked up throughout his Brotherhood career is interesting. To me, this implies that synth components are nonmetallic, or they'd light up like christmas trees in X-Rays. The possible alternative in Danse's case is that perhaps the component has been removed, but there is no reference to such a practice anywhere in the game.

I also assume that a Synthetic brain looks mostly human - as in, there IS an actual brain in there, not some stunted thing clinging to a chip. This is based on the assumption that someone would have noticed if his skull was empty in an X-Ray.

 

Gen 3 Synths and Age

Harkness is listed as manufactured in 2242. The game guide for Fallout 3 states he is 35 years old. The game's date of 2277, exactly 35 years from Harkness' manufacture. From what we've seen and know of the Gen 3 Synth production, Synths are produced as adults. Some synths (Mayor McDonnough) are produced to specific physical parameters - in McD's case, overweight and middle aged.

The fact that Harkness does not look over 50 (assuming a minimum manufactured physical age of 20) strongly indicates that Gen 3 synths do not age like humans. As they are biological, it is pretty much certain this does not make them immortal.

The above is irrelevant - Harkness is an android, not a Gen 3 synth according to Fallout 3. "According to Dr. Zimmer, androids produced by the Institute have synthetic skin and blood, and are programmed to simulate human behaviors, such as speaking and breathing and can even eat and digest food realistically." Well, that explains why he hasn't aged in 35 years.

Uninformed Pseudo-science Stuff: Synths are not 'born' from a foetus, they never grow. There are many theories as to why humans age - an in-built self destruct, a decaying ability for cells to replecate, long-term biological damage, and some other stuff. Maybe, whatever causes aging in humans, is broken in Synths. Again, this doesn't mean immortality - it just means not going grey, bald and wrinkly. Eventually mutations and incorrect cell divisions (cancer), disease or wounds will bring a Synth down. [... apparently they're immune to disease.]

 

Neuroplasticity and Mental Growth

Given that it may be safe to assume there aren't any giant bits of non-brain in the heads of Synths, how much of a G3 Synth comes from their 'components' and how much comes from their brain? The human brain has the incredible ability to adapt itself, even re-map itself and adapt areas to cover for damage or deficiencies in other areas. While a fresh Gen 3's brain may be a blank slate for programming, is it possible that a memory wiped Synth's brain eventually 'grows over' whatever allows them to be controlled, 'growing in' from their life experiences and making them harder to 'reprogram'.

If a Synth spends years away from anything that activates their 'chip', will those neural pathways linked to it cease to function as they originally did? I don't mean that the chip sill suddenly become inert - it may well work by electrical impulses, which a brain can't ignore. However, it may no longer function in the originally intended way. The areas of the brain stimulated by the implant may have been re-purposed for something different.

Memory wiping and reprogramming techniques may also fail on escaped Synths who have gone a long period of time without any mental tinkering - pathways and ideas become more 'set' in the brain, possibly making them harder to 'deactivate', or still leaving a high chance for a synth to revert to type. [it seems to be suggested that Synth brains can be edited?]

... urgh, I'm not making sense. It's late. But I have more to write.

 

Self Determination and Humans

The major advantage of Gen 3 synths is (apart from looking human) probably their ability to adapt. After all, that's what humans are famed for. However, it may be the case that being around humans (and trying to understand the confusing blighters) requires the sort of mental adaptations that often result in self determination.

 

 

And then I go on about Danse. Because there's so much potential there for interesting lore and theories, but it's just... brushed away in a single quest in the game. There's a lot of potential there for invoking important questions and thoughts (genuinely work from Bethesda to sneak it into the main Anti-Synth route, by the way) if it was just played out a little further. Some references in terminals, hints and breadcrumb trails of information... It's an emotional quest, for sure, but it's also bloody inconvenient having to dodge Vertibirds for the rest of the game. Also, I have a thing for stoic Knights in Battered Armor.

 

 

Harkness and Danse

This is blatant fanfiction tier stuff. My theory is that Danse (M7-97) is one of the Synths that Harkness (A3-21) was sent to retrieve in his courser days. I don't know when Harkness decided to turn on the Institute and his duties as a courser, and I don't know how long he's been security chief in Rivet City. However, I imagine Harkness arrives at Rivet City a few years prior to 2277 as he probably didn't start as Security Chief - he had to work for his position. Nope, apparently he just went to Rivet City and got the job. I'm pretty sure on-the-spot promotions like that make you a player character.

We also know that Harkness is an android, not a Gen 3 Synth. Probably the same sort of machine as Mr. Carter, the Broken Mask.

Anyway, the synth thing. Maybe, since his epiphany that "Self determination is NOT a malfunction," Harkness escaped... along with his current target and a newer model Gen 3 Synth, M7-97. The pair get their memories wiped and their faces changed by Horace Pickerton in Rivet City. Harkness gets some memories from a stolen memory chip from Vault 112. Danse... gets Generic Backstory #3, an childhood picking through ruins and selling scrap, something he's rather bitter about. When he realises at a synth, he's upset that he wasn't even given memories of a family. In my head-canon, maybe M7-97's initial directive was something to do with acquiring technology for the institute - meaning that the 'implanted memory' of his past is more of an edit than an implantation, and his career as a junk seller also relates to it.

Either way, the two end up in Rivet City. Maybe Harkness takes the job out of some sense of needing to protect some people in Rivet City - to make up for the synths he returned to the Institute by protecting M7-97. Or maybe it takes it because he was made to be an enforcer. M7-97, now Danse, finds himself drawn back to scrap from the Wasteland and he opens a junk stand.

 

M7-97 and the Brotherhood - Over 10 Years of Service

We know the DNA data the Brotherhood holds for Danse matches the DNA data the Institute holds on Danse (probably not Danse specifically, but data on synth DNA in general: they're pretty much all clones, or very close to). This means that, at whatever point the Brotherhood took Danse's DNA, he was already a Synth. Which makes sense - memory wiped synths don't replace people, they become new people. There was never a human Danse.

Anyway, Danse and his friend Cutler join the Brotherhood because they want to mean something. I wonder, do Synths often feel the need to be a part of something bigger than them? Something deeply ingrained from the Institute? Either way, Danse is sponsored by Paladin Kreig. Kreig is described as, "Toughest squad leader I ever served with. He was a model soldier, embodying the values every trainee was striving to achieve. Fiercely loyal, secure in his beliefs and brave to a fault. From the moment I was assigned to his squad I was singled out... it felt like he was pushing me harder than the rest of the team."

Paladin Kreig dies in the assault on Adams Air Force Base in 2277 against The Enclave. His dialogue regarding this implies that he was also an initiate at the time.

Given that FO4's Danse is almost a walking, talking Propaganda machine, I imagine that the clear cut values of the Brotherhood and military life suited his Synth mind very well. Everything is logical, everything is clear cut. You follow your orders. Unless specifically programmed, I could easily see synths struggling with some of the more freeform 'social' aspects of humanity. In dialogue with the Sole Survivor, Danse admits to being confused around emotional displays from Scribe Haylen.

 

Danse and McDonough, M7-97 and M7-62.

The ID of McDonough is M7-62. The ID of Danse is M7-97. Assuming IDs are linked to manufacture dates, Danse and McDonough may be from similar 'batches' or created at similar dates. It is also noted within the Institute that McDonough has started exhibiting signs of self awareness, evidenced by him requesting to become a courser for "long term loyalty and experience of the surface" according to information within the Synth Retention area of the Institute. It is commented that, as McDonough was created purposefully to match the REAL McDonough, he is biologically unfit to be a courser - he is old and overweight.

However, we can make some wild guesses. John Hancock (born John McDonough) is the brother of McSynthface. Hancock became a ghoul in 2277. McSynth was elected by playing on fear mongering against ghouls within Diamond City, promising to expel all ghouls. He was elected, and exiled his brother. Was the exile of his brother purely by chance, or a careful ploy to get rid of the one person that might reveal McSynthface by behavioural changes? Either way, we know the date of his election was AFTER 2277, as Hancock is kicked out for his ghoulishness.

Regardless, it is still unknown WHEN the real McDonough was replaced. It could have been anywhere from a year to five years before his election. It may even have been post-election. We don't know.

 

 

 

 

By the way, if anyone's done Curie's quest, any information on that would be greatly appreciated.

 

That and I need to go back to the Institute and read everything.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not a neuro-scientist. I'm talking through my arse.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Athanasa

[Moraelin]

1. I'd suggest also talking to Valentine about the Broken Mask incidents. He says that the synth was "full of servos and sprockets, just like yours truly." Which at the very least suggests that those components were kinda obvious.

 

2. About Harkness, or should I say, A3-21, I wouldn't read too much into his being called an "android" in FO3. The word "synth" just wasn't used in FO3, even by the Railroad gal. Even when Zimmer talks about the guy's former reclamation duties, he refers to those runaway synths as "androids".

 

He also has a recall code and a factory reset code, just like synths. If you let Zimmer take him back, he will use the usual reset code to disable Harkness, just like any synth. This is different from the code to just reactivate his memories.

 

Zimmer also EXPLICITLY states that such androids have synthetic skin and blood, which is definitely Gen 3. Harkness also had plastic surgery.

 

Also, Armitage, Zimmer's bodyguard is also called an "android" if you get Zimmer to reveal that. And killing him gets you an "android" component.

 

Simply put, "android" is just how synths were called in FO3, nothing more. Just get over that word, basically, it's not important.

 

The former duties of A3-21, as stated by Zimmer, are also bog-standard Courser duties.

 

3. Curie doesn't actually reveal much about the institute. Just one thing is revealed in that conversation, namely that a lot of the personality and behaviour programming happens on the chips between their ears, not just in the brain matter. That's why they can put Curie's programming part into a synth, but not in a human. Take that as you will.

 

4. What that quest really does is, well, it gives you a lot to think about when it comes to the Railroad.

 

It's the first time they reveal to you that their "mind wipe" quite routinely goes wrong and leaves synths in a brain-dead state, basically an eternal coma. It's something that they never told you before, and I get the impression that neither do they tell the synths they encourage to go with that procedure.

 

You also get to hear Dr Amari say that they knew the procedure all but erases any former personality the synth has. Glory (if you joined the Railroad, otherwise it will be a broke caretaker who was about to pull the plug on the brain-dead synth anyway) is also suddenly very butthurt about transferring Curie into the one synth who "was like family" to her, and the whole conversation has the tone of an execution. It seems well understood by both that once you replace the contents of the synth's brains with Curie, effectively the old synth is dead, and it's just Curie living in the new body. No, really, it's all about that synth's sacrifice and all.

 

Which, from a neuroscience point of view, is rather accurate. All the decisions you do, the things you like, the things you dislike, etc, are just a case of essentially voting based on the associations in your brain. Replace them with someone else's connections, and really it's a different person.

 

So the Railroad is essentially running a wholesale suicide booth for synths, to put it bluntly. The body will live on, but it will be a different person. The old one just ceased to exist. And at least some know it.

 

So they don't exactly strike me as good guys. More like a bunch of delusional twits thinking they're paying off some sins from their youth that way, while at the same time not really giving much of a thought to it.

 

Combine that with Desdemona viewing the humans of the Commonwealth as a bigger enemy than the Institute (revealed if you go with a RR-friendly ending), and with the fact that the RR in Fallout 3 didn't give a flip about helping HUMAN slaves, who frankly had it worse than Harkness's conscience problems, and... yeah, I'm not very fond of them.

[Scribblesix]

 

I imagine they are actually very well hidden. If my theory about Danse is correct, there was never a non-synth Danse that joined the Brotherhood, as his Brotherhood DNA data matches the Institutes records. This means that Danse's synth status went unnoticed throughout all his time in the Brotherhood. Danse himself has been in the Brotherhood for over 10 years, yet any metal parts in his head have not been picked up in any medical examinations. Danse rose through the Brotherhood ranks through his actions on the field - it is highly likely he has been wounded many times, as evidenced by his scars.

We know the Brotherhood has the technology to run DNA tests and X-Ray machines. They may even have access to more high-tech medical equipment... although the fact that they ask you to search for electromagnets for Prime could imply that they don't have anything medical running off such equipment. That or it's just a Bethesda quest.

The fact that any synth components Danse may contain have not been picked up throughout his Brotherhood career is interesting. To me, this implies that synth components are nonmetallic, or they'd light up like christmas trees in X-Rays. The possible alternative in Danse's case is that perhaps the component has been removed, but there is no reference to such a practice anywhere in the game.

I also assume that a Synthetic brain looks mostly human - as in, there IS an actual brain in there, not some stunted thing clinging to a chip. This is based on the assumption that someone would have noticed if his skull was empty in an X-Ray..

The synth parts scrap to plastic, but should still show up on x-rays. Probably best to just assume Danse never had a scan of his head.

 

Neuroplasticity and Mental Growth

Given that it may be safe to assume there aren't any giant bits of non-brain in the heads of Synths, how much of a G3 Synth comes from their 'components' and how much comes from their brain? The human brain has theincredible ability to adapt itself, even re-map itself and adapt areas to cover for damage or deficiencies in other areas. While a fresh Gen 3's brain may be a blank slate for programming, is it possible that a memory wiped Synth's brain eventually 'grows over' whatever allows them to be controlled, 'growing in' from their life experiences and making them harder to 'reprogram'.

If a Synth spends years away from anything that activates their 'chip', will those neural pathways linked to it cease to function as they originally did? I don't mean that the chip sill suddenly become inert - it may well work by electrical impulses, which a brain can't ignore. However, it may no longer function in the originally intended way. The areas of the brain stimulated by the implant may have been re-purposed for something different.

Memory wiping and reprogramming techniques may also fail on escaped Synths who have gone a long period of time without any mental tinkering - pathways and ideas become more 'set' in the brain, possibly making them harder to 'deactivate', or still leaving a high chance for a synth to revert to type. [it seems to be suggested that Synth brains can be edited?]

... urgh, I'm not making sense. It's late. But I have more to write.

This Is difficult to rationalize, Beth didn't have a consultant neurscientist on hand to design things so none of it makes much sense. Game logic suggests higher level functions (particularly long term memory) are stored on the synth chips, however there are a lot of different parts of the brain responsible for memory and the are fairly widely distributed across the brain. The cerebral cortex would have to be highly integrated, the prefrontal lobe and medial temporal lobe be replaced and something weird (sorry undergrad neuropsychology only, this level of speculation goes above my knowledge level) happen the he hippo-campus.

[Aintiarna]

Realistically I think there are only three options as far as Danse and the BoS are concerned:

 

1. The medical facilities are pre mid-twentieth century level and would be unable to detect advanced synth implants in Danse's otherwise very human body. (seems unlikely)

 

2. Danse is basically a cloned human with no artificial components. Anything else would be detected even with our current levels of medical technology (x-rays, CTs and MRIs). (unlikely)

 

3. Danse has never had a serious injury or a proper medical examination by the BoS.

 

Number 3 seems to be the only one that fits.

 

As for synth memory. Combining current computer technology with neurology at the level of memory storage is pure sci-fi. They function so completely differently. If the synths had an entirely artificial memory, then a memory wipe and re-write would be feasible. Not with a biological brain though. You could certainly wipe it, just as you could wipe a DVD by dropping it in acid, but I wouldn't like to try putting new information on it after that. The brain is more akin to crystal growth. You don't build crystals, you let them grow. To build synths that are fully functional adults from the moment of creation would require a completely different brain "technology" from ours. Ours needs time to grow and unless you've found a way to overcome quantum theory, you can't even clone an existing brain perfectly even if you had some kind of sci-fi matter duplicator.

 

The human brain is designed to grow and develop through a process of stimulation and reinforcement punctuated by rest periods (sleep). It's immensely complex and the idea you could sit in a booth and short circuit it is fun but ludicrous.

Edited December 31, 2015 by tirnoney

[Moraelin]

I'm going to take a wild guess that if the synth components were that easy to detect on x-ray, the BOS and everyone else would have made x-rays mandatory. Plus, the Compound wouldn't need to dissect people to confirm they're really synths.

 

Not sure how or where you'd hide a chip so it doesn't show up on x-ray, but as Tirnoney accurately pointed out, having accurate medicine wasn't really a high priority in designing the game.

 

At any rate, I think it's supposed to be the canon that you can't tell if someone is a synth unless you dissect them.

[Scribblesix]

I'm going to take a wild guess that if the synth components were that easy to detect on x-ray, the BOS and everyone else would have made x-rays mandatory. Plus, the Compound wouldn't need to dissect people to confirm they're really synths.

 

Not sure how or where you'd hide a chip so it doesn't show up on x-ray, but as Tirnoney accurately pointed out, having accurate medicine wasn't really a high priority in designing the game.

 

At any rate, I think it's supposed to be the canon that you can't tell if someone is a synth unless you dissect them.

 

Moraelin right in this, we are better off adhering to author intent that scientific instinct here. However I wonder if Beth missed a trick by not following the inherent impossibility of lab grown biological consciousness. Essentially gen three synths are flawed; they cannot psychologically survive for more than a few years without a reset. It would have made the synth dilemma must more interesting; Synths can be self deterministic but at the cost of a greatly reduced lifespan.

[Scribblesix]

I'm going to take a wild guess that if the synth components were that easy to detect on x-ray, the BOS and everyone else would have made x-rays mandatory. Plus, the Compound wouldn't need to dissect people to confirm they're really synths.

 

Not sure how or where you'd hide a chip so it doesn't show up on x-ray, but as Tirnoney accurately pointed out, having accurate medicine wasn't really a high priority in designing the game.

 

At any rate, I think it's supposed to be the canon that you can't tell if someone is a synth unless you dissect them.

 

Moraelin right in this, we are better off adhering to author intent that scientific instinct here. However I wonder if Beth missed a trick by not following the inherent impossibility of lab grown biological consciousness. Essentially gen three synths are flawed; they cannot psychologically survive for more than a few years without a reset. It would have made the synth dilemma must more interesting; Synths can be self deterministic but at the cost of a greatly reduced lifespan.

[Athanasa]

Moraelin right in this, we are better off adhering to author intent that scientific instinct here. However I wonder if Beth missed a trick by not following the inherent impossibility of lab grown biological consciousness. Essentially gen three synths are flawed; they cannot psychologically survive for more than a few years without a reset. It would have made the synth dilemma must more interesting; Synths can be self deterministic but at the cost of a greatly reduced lifespan.

 

Depends what a few years is. Danse Danse Revolution's been running for 10 years without a reset. Then again, Synths may not be intended to live very long anyway?

[robhartman9]

Its all a giant Vault Tek conspiracy to test human compassion for robots. The storyline kind of reminds me of Bladerunner where Harrision Ford is tasked with hunting down runaway clones only to find he has more compassion for them than he expected.

 

As for Currie I don't want to spoil too much so I will say you can find her by visiting vault 81. She has her own quest storyline and its worth following as she is one of the better companions (she gives you stimpaks rather than bubblegum)

[Talwyn224]

The whole Gen 3 Synth/Android naming issuing is just another example of Bethesda not giving a cr@p about continuity. Its one of the really obvious flaws in the design of this game in that they had pre-existing "lore" ie; Harkness from FO3 was an "Android" but we're given enough information to imply that he is actually a Gen 3 Synth who used to be a Courser. Yet come FO4 the term Android is nare to be seen and instead Bethesda have renamed artificial beings as Synths.

 

ffs... :down:

 

This really annoys me on a personal level because its just bloody lazy story crafting and while I very much have enjoyed playing FO4 i just wish they'd actually bothered to pay attention to what has gone before and maintained and built upon existing continuity.