How human are synths?

[Klipperken]

OK: So, if I were to be uploaded (my brain data) onto whatever form of technology, I stop being "me"?

If this piece of tech were to be used in a different body, would this affect me in my 'being'?

 

Of course, all this is theory, sci-fi, but still.

As for 'human brain' being better?
We will eventually come to technology that will be superior.
We already have simple forms of this, think the exoskeleton for one.

Vehicles.

Tools.

All quite simple still, but it will not stay as simple.

Technology will eventually surpass us, that is, if we make it that far into the future.

Seeing just how dumb we are as a species... I doubt we will.

[Groogo]

 

Synths are machines, nothing more.

That's quite an extreme thought, ain't it?

 

Think Blade Runner: Roy wanted to just LIVE.

Having a 4 year lifespan was not enough for him.

 

But here's the thing: in the end, Roy was FAR MORE human than Deckard ever was vs the Replicants.

So, a "machine" is just a machine?

I beg the difference, bro!

 

Nothing is as inhumane as a human.

 

Heh, Blade Runner eh...Synth's are nothing more then machines.

[Klipperken]

 

Heh, Blade Runner eh...Synth's are nothing more then machines.

Should it ever come to non-born beings hopping around, then just this mentality will get us killed...

It's no different than calling an African person "a thing" or "animal".

I do not think, it would be wise to maintain such approach to our 'fellow' toaster buddies. *grins*

[TheOriginalEvilD]

OK: So, if I were to be uploaded (my brain data) onto whatever form of technology, I stop being "me"?

If this piece of tech were to be used in a different body, would this affect me in my 'being'?

 

Of course, all this is theory, sci-fi, but still.

 

As for 'human brain' being better?

We will eventually come to technology that will be superior.

We already have simple forms of this, think the exoskeleton for one.

Vehicles.

Tools.

All quite simple still, but it will not stay as simple.

Technology will eventually surpass us, that is, if we make it that far into the future.

Seeing just how dumb we are as a species... I doubt we will.

 

Well, I may just not know all of how/what the Institute are doing....are they actually uploading entire human "minds" into the synths, or a program? We're also assuming that it's possible to transfer a consciousness into a machine (and yeah, this is all sci fi anyway).

 

Superior is very subjective. If we look at it simply in terms of who would win in a war, man or machine, then yeah man is pretty frail. But, if you compare man to lions for example, we wouldn't win in a man vs lion fight either would we? It isn't always outright power that makes you superior, it's your reasoning ability, compassion, humility, empathy, even love that makes humans the dominant species on this planet.

 

Now, don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying a synth life has no meaning. Someone earlier in this thread said something to the effect that "a being that can reason and desire for rights deserves them" or something like that...and to me that makes total sense. Somewhere in the mind of a runaway synth there is a limit to what that "mind" is capable of, because that's the limit of its programming. But, up until that limit, it doesn't know it's a machine, and it can live a life just as any human does. I do believe that matters, and I believe that type of being can know what fear feels like, even if that fear is a simple program that's built into it. This would be my struggle for supporting mass synth genocide.

 

But...all that said, yes I still believe they are a lower form of "life" than humans and they always will be, just as I love my dog but sorry a dog is a lower form of life than humans. If it came down to saving a human life vs. a synth life, I wouldn't hesitate one bit to save the human, because the human can't be reproduced (well, not yet in Fallout's reality) whereas a synth could potentially be rebuilt and that consciousness be uploaded into another body. Heck there's even a quest where you transfer the mind of a Mister Handy into a synth body. That right there proves that you could blow off Valentine's head and just upload his mind into another body and he'll be good to go.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Evil D

[Groogo]

 

 

Heh, Blade Runner eh...Synth's are nothing more then machines.

Should it ever come to non-born beings hopping around, then just this mentality will get us killed...

It's no different than calling an African person "a thing" or "animal".

I do not think, it would be wise to maintain such approach to our 'fellow' toaster buddies. *grins*

 

Nah, they are more like Fords or Chevys. There is nothing at all human about them.

[Boombro]

For robo brains, the brains where use as replacement for microchips. They wanted something small and effective. So brains.

[Moraelin]

Just to reiterate, though, in Curie's quest you're TOLD very unambiguously that synths are somewhere between human and computer, and that they can transfer a Mr Handy's custom programming to the chips between a synth's ears.

 

So it's not as simple as "but it's a human brain", nor as simple as "but if I transferred my personality..." There is some programming in there that runs on a CPU that's the same or compatible enough to a Mr Handy's CPU. In fact that's the personality part of a synth, judging by the results of such a transfer in the game.

 

In fact, it's quite explicitly stated that you can't just transfer a Mr Handy into a human body, but you CAN into a gen 3 synth.

 

So yeah, those guys' behaviour IS programmed in the same way as Codsworth, and in fact that program runs on the same or compatible hardware.

 

Now mind you, I'm not against granting them human or human-like intelligence, just as I'm not against granting that to KLEO or Codsworth. And they clearly pass a Turing test, so... But just saying... The lore on them is a bit more convoluted.

 

Also, just for the record, from a neuroscience point of view, it's all complete and utter nonsense. Which also means that bringing RL medical or philosophical considerations into this whole debate is kinda pointless. It's like bringing RL biology into how dragon shouts work in Skyrim.

[TheVampireDante]

OK: So, if I were to be uploaded (my brain data) onto whatever form of technology, I stop being "me"?

If this piece of tech were to be used in a different body, would this affect me in my 'being'?

 

Of course, all this is theory, sci-fi, but still.

 

Go play SOMA - interesting take on this subject at times during that game.

[TheOriginalEvilD]

It's like bringing RL biology into how dragon shouts work in Skyrim.

 

Wait, are you saying I can't learn an ancient language and breathe fire? :laugh:

 

It's all just the realm of sci fi. Once you start allowing something to hypothetically be possible, other things aren't all that far fetched.

[JuJooGuppy]

I have seen articles that discuss the idea of immortality via uploading your brain to a computer of some kind, whether thats a 'synth' like being, a matrix like system, etc.. my thing with that, IF it were ever possible, is that moment of transfer, you are effectively killing and cloning yourself (same as star trek teleporter.) Yes, the being that wakes up in the machine will feel as though they just came from the now deceased body. But the means of which you "exist" in that body, I see that as that person effectively dying, thus not achieving immortality as desired.

To achieve true immortality, you would need to remain in your own body, at all cost. More accurately, your orginal brain, altered or otherwise, so long as you never transfered brains, you live. YOU are nothing more than whats contained in your brain, the rest of your body is simply there to power it. (This is from a scientifical only point-of-view and isnt accounting for the religious views of souls and such, as that isnt my personal belief system. I still respect other peoples beliefs, though, and I think this still applies, if you believe in a soul, it wouldnt transfer over, either.)


Just food for thought... Look at Nick. He is, for all intents and purposes, Nick. But he is a copy. The original Nick is dead, but yet also lives on in the new (and.. improved..? o.O) Nick. Nick himself struggles with this sense of identity as I am sure people are aware.


At the end of the day though, this is all just a game. But its a fun topic to consider and discuss, for when or if we ever reach this type of milestone in reality, I am sure the same type of debates will occur. Should these new AI's be considered individuals or just simple tools? :)