Settlement keywords and updated mods. CTD when entering workshop?

[Kastergir]

Weeeelllll....

 

heres a few MODs commentpages, maybe youd like to endulge yourself and read up about what has been happening around SettlementKeywords, and quite a few of those MODs who are full ocompatible, or partially compatible, or not even trying to be compatible with it...

 

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Well yeah, I was kidding . Serious, quite some people have been looking into this, debating it, and been working to make something work . Even just trying to read up to get an Idea about what already HAS been said and done will probably blow anybodies schedule XD . As far as I know, Settlement Keywords is absolutely, perfectly 100% well functioning as intented . Problems arise when MAs want to port their MODs onto it, but still mess around with menue/category structure - instead of working with what SK gives them .

 

SK is imho simply the best way at the moment . Making Settlement Build menue stucture used in MODs a matter of upblic opinion and maybe even Vote (!?!)) will dissolve the entire effort into a nightmare - not only because of most likley agreement NEVER being reachable, but also: update nightmare .

 

Stuyk, creator of SK, has made a REALLY nice Video explaining how it works - and how it comes things sometimes do NOT work together well . You can watch it here ->SettlementKeywordsPage

 

 

If all else fails - i.e readymade "drag-and-drop" installation options NOT being provided by those damn lazybum MAs who simply to refuse to work their asses off 24/7 so EVERYONE can use THEIR work for free without ANY sweat - you can simply start to educate yourself about FO4Edit, and create patches for all those building MODs you want to have working together yourself . Its pretty easy apparently .

 

Here is a really, REALLY good post about this - written by kingculex on SKs comments:

 

Missing categories is often largely due to an incompatible mod. This will hopefully be resolved when more mods convert to using Settlement Keywords. For now there is in an option to make your own compatibilty patch .esp until more mods convert. You will no longer need a compatibilty patch when all mods convert. :smile:

So I will repost this here. (My experience level with FO4EDIT is beginner.)

This is not my guide that I link, I just used it to make my patch. I can not stress enought how important it is to at least read the linked guide. It is very detailed and has pictures. All credit for the guide goes to Zrynoth.


Guide: http://www.scribd.com/doc/235574282/Guide-to-Make-a-Patch-for-Solving-Conflicts

***Make sure you back up your mods just in case you do something wrong. Nothing should happen to the them if you select a new file when you first do **Copy as an override into...*** and then the new file when you select **Copy as an override into...*** for the next FORMID list.***

But here are the steps a bit more detailed to go along with the guide. These do not replace the guide but should help make it easier.

Inside FO4EDIT:

1. Apply the filters as described in the guide.
2. When you select the first FORMID list in Settlement Keywords and right click and select **Copy as an override into...*** a warning window will pop up.
3. Select "Yes, I am absolutely sure"
4. Select a new file which is an option at the bottom of the "Which files do you want to add this record to?" list. (Its a list of all the mods loaded into your Fallout 4.
5. Name the new file something you can remember.
6. Go to the next FORMID list in Settlement Keywords and select "copy as override into" again but select the new file you created,
7. Do this till each FORMID list in Settlement Keywords is added to the new file you created. (The Red ones should be the only ones showing up if the filters are applied. The FORMIDS with RED TEXT and RED BACKGROUND are the ones you need to concentrate on.)
8. Open the first FORMID list by clicking on it and you will see a FORMID list from each plugin that has its own version of that FORMID list. The each FORMID list has the name of which mod it comes from at the top of it. (Fallout.esm, Homemaker.esm, Alternate settlements.esp, etc.)
9. In the FORMID list from each mod you will see some are red. Compare the FORMIDS in the lists to the FORMID list you added to your new file. Alternate Settlements and any mods already compatible with Settlement Keywords should be fine so focus on the ones like Homemaker.
10. You next click on the Red FORMIDS in the list that Homemaker (or any conflicting mod) adds and drag them to the blank space at the top of the list in your new file. (The FORMID list in your new file should be a duplicate of the Settlement Keywords list.) The blank space is located where on the left of the view window it says FORMIDS and should be right under the name of the mod. You should see a plus sign next to your mouse pointer.
11. Drop the RED FORMID there to add it to the list
12. Repeat for each conflicted FORMID. The color of the text of the FORMID should change from red in your FORMID in your new file. Might change to yellow/orange or green. It is ok as long as the text of the FORMID is not red.
13. Repeat steps 8 to 12 for each FORMID list until all the Red Text FORMIDS are added to the FORMID lists in your new file and they are no longer red. The color of the background does not matter.
14. Save the file when all FORMID lists in your new file no longer have red text in your new file. It should be an .esp file. (Ctrl+S to save or you should be prompted to save when closing FO4EDIT.)
15. Load the new .esp file after you save it last in your list of mods (last in your load order) so it does not get overwritten.

Thank you leithesky for this alternate way to do step 10.

10a. Select the blank space under the name of the new file/mod you created when you did **Copy as an override into...*** the first time.
10b. Right click on it and select ADD.
10c. A new lFORMID that says "NULL - Null Reference [00000000]" should be added to the FORMID list in your new file.
10d. Repeat 10b and 10c until you have enough "NULL - Null Reference [00000000]" FORMIDS. You can always remove extra.
10e. Drag the RED TEXT FORMIDS from the conflicting mod to the "NULL - Null Reference [00000000]" FORMID.
10f. Drop the dragged FORMID from the conflicting mod on top of the "NULL - Null Reference [00000000]" FORMID. (A plus sign should be on your mouse.)
10g.The dragged FORMID should overwrite the "NULL - Null Reference [00000000]" FORMID.
10h. Repeat for all RED TEXT FORMIDS until they are added the FORMID list in your new file/esp.

Hopefully this helps, it will get quicker the more you do it and it is an easy way to fix some conflicts. A player can also learn to change FORMIDS to do things like increase the radius of lights. It took me longer to write this than it did to make my first compatibility patch and it was my first time using FO4EDIT.

 

(in other news: Steam has finished downloading Fallout4 . Damn you BetaPatch, and welcome MO2Alpha3 to my Fallout4 experience XD ) .

Edited January 18, 2016 by Kastergir

[kingculex]

By any chance is there a forum or other place of discussion where we could figure out this whole keywords thing? It seems to me like half the people making their stuff compatible with sk are only going halfway. Ie the shops being moved to resources and patch makers moving them back. If we could have a place to work out where the majority of us want it in the menus, we could get a more usable SK to work from, more mod makers adhering to it and solve a lot of issues.

 

A forum dedicated to SK for mod authors and mod users to communicate would be great. More cooperation between mod makers would also be great because the lack of cooperation is how we got into our current mess. Even if Bethesda doubled the limit we still might have issues with conflicts simply because of a lack of cooperation. Luckily SK does not mess with any mods that just add their own items to the vanilla categories. SK is am attempt to try to unify everyone.

 

Here is a picture of the FORMID List that makes up the structure menu. The far right FORMID List is the one out of my compatibilty patch that combines the ones from Homemaker, SNB Greenhouse, and SK together so everything works.

 

 

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo207/kingculex/sk.png

 

Edited January 18, 2016 by kingculex

[SirTwist]

The thing is, it's not just the mod authors' fault. It's actually the very dated game engine that Bethesda has given us, and the poor menu choices, and the poor choices at the prefabs. (Okay, does anyone, but me and perhaps one or two others, think that the prefabs structures look like a bunch of drunken teens threw the thing together? ) Anyway, getting back to the point, the limitation that Bethesda has set down, what I think all the mod makers should do is include a work around for the limits, to a point. I think one of the things that needs to be done is that every settlement should be cleaned up in the first place. This may help with things.

[count9us]

I just had the same issue today when I updated my mod Pro Farming. I entered my chem station and many items have been moved around including missing a category/tab. SK sounded like a good idea, but it seems it would require every single mod on the nexus to go through it otherwise we'll have problems. Bethesda has to be the one to fix this issue (or CK?). luckily the either still had the old mod so I'm going to get rid of keywords mod and use the old version of Pro Farming until it's fixed.

[kingculex]

I just had the same issue today when I updated my mod Pro Farming. I entered my chem station and many items have been moved around including missing a category/tab. SK sounded like a good idea, but it seems it would require every single mod on the nexus to go through it otherwise we'll have problems. Bethesda has to be the one to fix this issue (or CK?). luckily the either still had the old mod so I'm going to get rid of keywords mod and use the old version of Pro Farming until it's fixed.

I really hate to point this out but the issue with workbenches seemed to exist way before SK. Gambit77 found some way to fix it with his Armorsmith workbench, Weaponsmith workbench, and Armor and Weapon Keywords Community Resource (AWKCR). It is the same limitation as the workshop. I ran into it running just Crafting Workbenches and other item crafting mods, I had no settlement mods installed.

 

@SirTwist

 

*shakes a supersledge at Bethesda* Yes, it is that ridicules keyword limitation at work. SK is a work in progress and continues to improve.

Edited January 19, 2016 by kingculex

[SirTwist]

Given that MO isn't working right for me, at the moment, I'm stuck using NMM. And that needs a major overhaul, as well. I would like it not to infest my clean, pristine, data folder with everything, including the kitchen sink, when installing mods. (No mod manager should do this, at all. It is a poor sign.) Anyway, I have no problems with the workbench mods out there, and have had zero. Before the SK came out, I had no problems with earlier versions of Alt Settlements, SSex, Homemaker, Snap 'n Build, and even Simple Intersection. They all worked fine together. Well, all but SSex and Alt Settlements decide to do more, and then that's when the breaking started. So, I went in, got rid of Homemaker, SSex, Snap 'n Build. And then my problems were gone. Oh, and also got rid of Settlement Keywords. That was a headache as well. Until things settle down, and mods get reworked, I'm going to wait. On what, I am not sure, but wait one something.

[Kastergir]

Well, I am waiting for stable FO4Edit through MO2, and thats about it . As soon as I can get that to work, I'll ditch NMM for good . In the meantime, I have simply backed up my Data folder . Let NMM mess with it as much as it wants, as soon as NMM is gone, my Data will be as on day one again ;) .

[kingculex]

When it comes to the workbenches my suggestion: (I know its a pain.)

Take a look at the new versions of AWKCR + Armorsmith Extended + Crafting Workbenches.

AWKCR is now similar to Settlement Keywords in working around that limitation with Armorsmith Extended + Crafting Workbenches.

 

They have already been reworked to decrease the chances of the workbench categories getting scrambled. The Junk and Ammunition workbenches of Crafting Workbenches are the only two that have not been redone.

 

My loadorder:

 

Fallout4.esm
SettlementKeywords.esm
Homemaker.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm
Worsin's Garage.esm
Robot Home Defence.esm
Homemaker - Greenhouse and Bunker Disabler.esp
Homemaker - Unlocked Institute Objects.esp
TagBag.esp
Various Flare Guns.esp
SuperHelpfulItemTidying.esp
Perk Magazine Material Fix.esp
FO4SeasonsMoreGrassLow.esp
DarkerNights.esp
DarkerNightsDetection.esp
BetterNightVision.esp
TrueStormsFO4.esp
TrueStormsFO4-ClimateSettings.esp
TrueStormsFO4-Performance-Fog.esp
fog.esp
Remove Interior Fog.esp
DarkerNights-TrueStorms.esp
DDP_BAB_M1.esp
AlternateSettlements.esp
Flags of the Old World.esp
Snap and Build - Greenhouse.esp
OCDecorator.esp
SummonerOnlyBots.esp
Locked Doors - Destructable.esp
Locked Doors - Indestructable.esp
Locked Doors - Player House(optional).esp
Move that Workbench!.esp
Business Settlements.esp
ConvenientStores.esp
Fusebox Generator.esp
AIO SS.esp
ModelRobotDisplay.esp
NukaColaDisplayStand.esp
Dont Throw Stones.esp
DDP_Bridge_mark1.esp
DDP_Ramps_mark1.esp
DDP_Elevators_mark1.esp
DDP_Bridge_mark1_Institute.esp
DD_All_the_COncrete.esp
DD_Power_armor_option.esp
DD_bobblehead_stands.esp
DDP_Lightbox1.esp
ZerasPaintings.esp
Crafting Workbench.esp
Crafting Workbenches - Ammo.esp
Crafting Workbenches - Ammo Special.esp
Crafting Workbenches - Junk Items.esp
Crafting Workbenches - Pre War and Manufactured.esp
Armorsmith Extended.esp
Craftable Institute Elevators - all in one - Homemaker.esp
LegendaryModification.esp
ChineseStealthArmorLegendaryMod.esp
LegendaryModificationMisc.esp
LegendaryModification2LM.esp
LegendaryModificationCSA.esp
LegendaryModificationGroknak.esp
LegendaryModificationRemoveLevelEC.esp
LegendaryModification2LMRemoveLevelEC.esp
LegendaryModificationMiscRemoveLevelEC.esp
LegendaryModificationCSARemoveLevelEC.esp
LegendaryModificationGroknakRemoveEC.esp
AnyModAnyWeapon.esp
LegendaryMod2LMAnyModAnyWeap.esp
LegendaryModification2LMAKPatch.esp
Identify Power Armor Frames.esp
Buildable_PAFrame_v1.3.esp
Weapon Mods Mod - WBO.esp
CommChemExpanded.esp
CommChemExp-BetterItemSorting-Patch.esp
Craftable Armor Size.esp
GlovesOfTheCommonwealth.esp
Gloves of the Commonwealth - Crafting.esp
Gloves of the Commonwealth - ASE.esp
Logical Recipes.esp
ArtilleryFlare.esp
NuclearQuickfire.esp
Simple Intersection.esp
Switched Power Pylons - Increased Radius.esp
LoweredJetpakAPDrain.esp
NoFallDamage.esp
AerysFO4Customs.esp
Companion Infinite Ammo and Unbreakable Power Armour.esp
Home Plate Workbench.esp
AirportWorkBench.esp
CarryWeight99999.esp
CarryWeight200Strength.esp
Easier Hacking - 1 Word.esp
Easy Lockpick.esp
Guaranteed Pickpocket.esp
InfiniteFusionCore.esp
NoObjectLimit.esp
LongerPowerLines3x.esp
Scrapper Corpse Highlighting.esp
ScrapperRangeExtension16x.esp
TargetReconEyewear(NonReplacer).esp
VatsOverThere_IncreasedVATSRange_AimIncreaseMaxed.esp
DisableAllFaction.esp
MoreShipments_50.esp
ShipmentSize_125.esp
VendorCaps_50k.esp
SkjAlert_RS+.esp
Covenant Turrets.esp
ExpandedSettlementFWHeight.esp
BetterSettlers.esp
BetterSettlersHeavyArmorOnly.esp
BetterClothing.esp
WPFDU_Defense_NPR_x1000.esp
WPFDU_Generators_x1000.esp
WPFDU_Water_x1000.esp
Summoner.esp
SettlerRenaming.esp
MoreAmmo.esp
Blood Angels Death Company Paint.esp
MMP4APA-blue.esp
MMP4APA.esp
N7 X1PowerArmor.esp
PowerGoggles.esp
RRP4APA.esp
X1_BOS.esp
Enclave SpaceMarine Black Templars.esp
Worsins-Paint-Garage-lite-with-bonus.esp
ZW's F4 Power Armor Overhaul.esp
More Where That Came From Diamond City.esp
More Where That Came From - Classic.esp
WeaponRacks.esp
WeaponRacks-Tools-Weightless.esp
WeaponRacks-Weapons-Vanilla.esp
NX Pro - Farm Core.esp
[PPE] NX Pro (Domesticated Species) [Add-On].esp
NX Pro - Farm Core - No Requirements.esp
NX Pro - Farm Core - Valdacil's Item Sorting.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-AidWeightless.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-Ammo.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-ArmorByClass.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-CosmeticsByClass.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-ExplosivesSortBottomWeightless.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-Junk.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-MiscWeightless.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-NotJunk.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-Perks.esp
ValdacilsItemSorting-Weapons.esp
VIS-PatchDisplayStand-ModelRobot.esp
VIS-PatchDisplayStand-NukaCola.esp
VIS-PatchWeaponRacks-SortBottom.esp
VIS-PatchZephyrWarriorF4PAOverhaul-ByClass.esp
skmerge0.6.esp

 

 

Does it work? Yes.

Did I have issues with the workbenches being scrambled? Yes.

 

-steps-

I updated AWKCR to 1.69.
I updated Armorsmith to 2.6.
I updated Crafting Workbenches to 2.0.
Created new workbenches.

 

-Result-

Armorsmith and Weaponsmith workbenches seems to be working fine with no categories renamed or changed. (Replaces the armor and weapon workbenches in Craffting Workbenches.)

The bottom category in the Chemistry Station is relabeled "Warehouse Supplies" (from Homemaker) and seems to be a dumping ground for items that should be in the "Other" category. But 7 other categories show fine.

**The recipes in the bottom category of the Chemistry Station that is relabeled "Warehouse Supplies" are from mods that tried to add a custom category to the Chemistry Station like Tagbag. They are not vanilla recipes.

Crafting Workbenches(Ammunition and Junk) is still at 1 category since they were not reworked.

 

-Drawback-

Players might find they can not craft items provided by mods that directly add stuff to the armor workbench and weapon workbench provided by Crafting Workbenches to be crafted. (I found this out with the old version of Various Flare Guns and luckily it had been reworked to add itself to the Utility category of the Chemistry Station.)

 

-Speculation on cause-
Could Settlement Keywords factor in? Yes, since it adds keywords.

Does this glitch predate Settlement Keywords? Yes, it is the same categories(keyword) overflow glitch that players experienced in the workshop. It is the cursed result of the keyword llimitation set by Bethesda.

Will any mod that adds keywords contribute to this glitch/limitation? Yes (You already figured this out and you are correct it will become more of an issue when mods continue to get bigger and bigger. :sad: )

 

-Speculation of solutions-

More mods being reworked to use vanilla keywords for their categories instead of custom ones for their categories could fix it.

More communication between mod authors could help. An example is Tagbag just adding itself to the "Other" category of the Chemistry station instead of trying to have its own category.

Bethesda getting of its *** and raising the ridicules keyword limitation could also fix it.

 

***Hopefully this information helps some people who are running into the keyword limitation in the workbenches.

***Thank you Kastergir for pointing out the changes to AWKCR + Armorsmith Extended + Crafting Workbenches to me.

***Sorry if I can not be of more help.

Edited January 20, 2016 by kingculex

[SirTwist]

Well, I am waiting for stable FO4Edit through MO2, and thats about it . As soon as I can get that to work, I'll ditch NMM for good . In the meantime, I have simply backed up my Data folder . Let NMM mess with it as much as it wants, as soon as NMM is gone, my Data will be as on day one again :wink: .

I am waiting on a stable MO2, and a a little further work with TES5edit, or as we call it, FO4edit. One thing I have started doing, though, is making some merge patches. I'm going to see if making some more will help with load order, and potential problems. I use the older merge plugin for FO4Edit, and it's pretty good. I merged 2 vault suit ballistic weave mods, then the weightless mod, that had 4 .esp's to it. Next, going to try the crafting benches, again. And then a few others. I think that merging might be a way to go.

[Kastergir]

Yep, thats exactly why I am still using NMM for the time being . I could simply install and run the mods I want through MO2, but I can't get it to talk to Fo4Edit . So yeah, I am planning to look into the CW benches not added into AWKCR and see what I can do to them to not mix up the categories. This, and hopefully also finding the ( admittedly little bit, but its still sparse at occasion for me ) time to edit Homemaker to ONLY show me what I want/need ( have no use for Raider or SuperMutant Stuff ) may allow me to play with the mods I want without hitting the cap . heres hoping XD .

 

Come to think of it : anyone every suggested to NovaCoru ( maker of Homemaker ) to revert back to .esps and make some of the buildsets optional installs ? I mean, sure she has all hands full,what with constantly updating HM, now also porting it to hopefully adhere to SK standard....but the modular approach would probably help a great deal of people who love using her MOD - and others together with it .

 

@kingculex : What is TagBag ?

Edited January 20, 2016 by Kastergir