200 years is too long

[charwo]

Old Spice, you're so full of s#*!.

1. There was sure as f*#@ an internet, email doesn't happen without internet, and what's more is that the internet even in 1980s terms had to exist for the same reason it exists in RL, to harden communications against nuclear attack

 

2. You make so many, many assumptions. We have no idea of Fallout's history before the resource wars, it could have looked exactly like ours. And even with fracking in RL we'll be lucky to keep our oil reserves going to 2050. This issue is not the development of clean energy or not, there's simply not enough petroleum substitutes to last to 2050 without them, it's that the world didn't scale up those reknewables in time. The geo-politcal world fallows suit; war, even cold war, is exhausting, cultural developments don't suddenly stop. s#*! there wasn't medivel stasis in the middle ages. Fashions changed, music changed, castle tech changed. s#*!, Italy in the 12th century was more economically developed in the 12th century than it was in the 2nd century. The Romans looked impressive but didn't even have wheelbarrows.

3. We can tell a lot of things actually from the fact the world survived to 2050 in good order: there was clean energy, there simply wasn't enough of it fast enough, China liberalized to have the economy needed to threaten the US, the Soviets lost the Cold War and Eastern Europe, even if they survived, they HAD to liberalize because state planning doesn't work.

4. The Fallout universe came back AROUND to retro-futurism, but wasn't stuck in the 50s because science, technology, and culture simply don't work that way.

And none of this is explains the cultural stasis on the east coast. The west is very dynamic, with lots of tribes, gangs, societies.

I personally square the circle and make the game 110 years after 2077, which Fallout 1 having been 60 years ago. It makes the recovery seem less than torporous.

[jcdenton2012]

I can actually comment about the NCR and the 200 year period following the bombs. Technically, Los Angeles is one of the few canon cities which took several direct hits from the nuclear war. Areas such as Orange County were turned into a lunar landscape much like many other outlying areas. After a whole lot of research and design work (almost done lolz) for Fallout New Vegas, I decided to add both Compton and Inglewood to the list of areas which took direct hits. The Los Angeles Commercial District was largely sparred the nuclear holocaust and remains standing, though in lore the buildings are gutted and only the ironwork remains. This; however, did not make it into my final design for LA since it ate up so much space.

[oldspice2625]

Okay, first of all, chill the hell out. There was no need for a personal attack of that magnitude. It's a video game.

 

After you've calmed down...

 

I was giving my perceptions on what went on throughout the world of Fallout as opposed to our own world. I was speculating on what was happening (in a fictional non real world based on our own) that would cause such factors as cultural stagnation to occur where things would get stuck in the 1950's Atomic Age era.

 

It IS stuck in that era, whether by Bethesda's choice in design, or if it would have "logically" happened due to war strain on society combined with declining resources.

 

Most communities in America (as evidenced by little blurbs of info that we have from the loading screens and snippits of things in game on terminals, etc...) show that the world was NOT in a good state, and it would lead one to believe that there was little room for major cultural developments.

 

Also, before you be rude to me again, I only brought up "no internet" because that stuff that they have is so primitive that it couldn't possibly be as advanced as our internet is... it looks more like ARPANET or something, something so crude and basic that it couldn't possibly be in most homes. Remember the Transistor wasn't invented (something you didn't point out in your rant) so most families and regular people didn't have access to the internet, as most homes don't have terminals that are blown up, and the Pip boy is the most advanced portable computing device in the Fallout world, that's in the damn game....

 

The Pip boy can play basic barely arcade quality games and have a radio feature... yeah... that's some internet and computing power right there... surely most would be connected world wide.

 

Also, their phones are basically radial phones, most people would not be consuming globally produced material like on Youtube and other major sharing services like Hulu and streaming services to be exposed to diverse forms of media, other than television and radio.

 

According to the Fallout timeline, world travel DOES cease... and that was made by the guys who designed Fallout, so like I said, before you blow your top over a video game, I did attempt to connect what info I had access to, in order to come up with an answerto the OP's post.

[Ethreon]

 

 

Okay, first of all, chill the hell out. There was no need for a personal attack of that magnitude. It's a video game.

 

After you've calmed down...

 

I was giving my perceptions on what went on throughout the world of Fallout as opposed to our own world. I was speculating on what was happening (in a fictional non real world based on our own) that would cause such factors as cultural stagnation to occur where things would get stuck in the 1950's Atomic Age era.

 

It IS stuck in that era, whether by Bethesda's choice in design, or if it would have "logically" happened due to war strain on society combined with declining resources.

 

Most communities in America (as evidenced by little blurbs of info that we have from the loading screens and snippits of things in game on terminals, etc...) show that the world was NOT in a good state, and it would lead one to believe that there was little room for major cultural developments.

 

Also, before you be rude to me again, I only brought up "no internet" because that stuff that they have is so primitive that it couldn't possibly be as advanced as our internet is... it looks more like ARPANET or something, something so crude and basic that it couldn't possibly be in most homes. Remember the Transistor wasn't invented (something you didn't point out in your rant) so most families and regular people didn't have access to the internet, as most homes don't have terminals that are blown up, and the Pip boy is the most advanced portable computing device in the Fallout world, that's in the damn game....

 

The Pip boy can play basic barely arcade quality games and have a radio feature... yeah... that's some internet and computing power right there... surely most would be connected world wide.

 

Also, their phones are basically radial phones, most people would not be consuming globally produced material like on Youtube and other major sharing services like Hulu and streaming services to be exposed to diverse forms of media, other than television and radio.

 

According to the Fallout timeline, world travel DOES cease... and that was made by the guys who designed Fallout, so like I said, before you blow your top over a video game, I did attempt to connect what info I had access to, in order to come up with an answerto the OP's post.

 

 

reporting him would go around a week off forums. Mods don't tolerate rude people around.

 

@charwo - someone having an opinion different than yours doesn't mean they're wrong. chill

[jcdenton2012]

OldSpice is actually correct on many things. I can list a few of them right quick since his attention to established lore is actually much appreciated. There was no world-wide web in the Fallout timeline. However, there were transmitters used for global communications mainly for television and military satellites. You encounter these in Fallout 4 (televisions) and in Fallout 3 (High Water Trousers). What you consider an internet was actually a military defense communication network between major US military instillation's established with landlines. Examples of these are Raven Rock and Vault 101. Vaults and Major ZAX military bunkers were actually mostly 'off of the grid' in terms computerized communications with email only being possible by proxy or direct landline. However, these bunkers still did have the capability to broadcast with radiowaves.

 

Most usages of internet text communications in the game are isolated internal servers within singular buildings with the few examples of distanced text communications being by landline. A good example of this would be the Vault Tec Mainframe in Fallout 3 which could give an active status on vaults still linked by landline to their network.

 

Regarding the Resource Wars themselves. Industrial Coal Gasification, Oil Distillation, and Refinement... even though it has never been stated for sure in Fallout lore that these things were never greatly developed like in our own timeline, it remains HIGHLY probable given the nature of 'peak oil.' What we do for certain is that research into nuclear energy became the norm following WWII, thus leading to a decline in the usage of fossil fuels by the United States. Notice, I said decline not stop. The industrialized world still continued to consume large quantities of fossil fuels well past 'peak oil,' but whether or not the Fallout Universe retained greater refinement capability is... suspect. I think they simply never developed the technology to the point of being capable of processing anything short of pure crude oil since such great emphasis was placed upon nuclear energy. If this is true... then Earth in the Fallout Universe still has a vast untapped reserve of oil waiting to be accessed with proper technology.

[charwo]

 

 

Okay, first of all, chill the hell out. There was no need for a personal attack of that magnitude. It's a video game.

 

After you've calmed down...

 

I was giving my perceptions on what went on throughout the world of Fallout as opposed to our own world. I was speculating on what was happening (in a fictional non real world based on our own) that would cause such factors as cultural stagnation to occur where things would get stuck in the 1950's Atomic Age era.

 

It IS stuck in that era, whether by Bethesda's choice in design, or if it would have "logically" happened due to war strain on society combined with declining resources.

 

Most communities in America (as evidenced by little blurbs of info that we have from the loading screens and snippits of things in game on terminals, etc...) show that the world was NOT in a good state, and it would lead one to believe that there was little room for major cultural developments.

 

Also, before you be rude to me again, I only brought up "no internet" because that stuff that they have is so primitive that it couldn't possibly be as advanced as our internet is... it looks more like ARPANET or something, something so crude and basic that it couldn't possibly be in most homes. Remember the Transistor wasn't invented (something you didn't point out in your rant) so most families and regular people didn't have access to the internet, as most homes don't have terminals that are blown up, and the Pip boy is the most advanced portable computing device in the Fallout world, that's in the damn game....

 

The Pip boy can play basic barely arcade quality games and have a radio feature... yeah... that's some internet and computing power right there... surely most would be connected world wide.

 

Also, their phones are basically radial phones, most people would not be consuming globally produced material like on Youtube and other major sharing services like Hulu and streaming services to be exposed to diverse forms of media, other than television and radio.

 

According to the Fallout timeline, world travel DOES cease... and that was made by the guys who designed Fallout, so like I said, before you blow your top over a video game, I did attempt to connect what info I had access to, in order to come up with an answerto the OP's post.

 

 

reporting him would go around a week off forums. Mods don't tolerate rude people around.

 

@charwo - someone having an opinion different than yours doesn't mean they're wrong. chill

How the f*#@ was I rude? I said he was wrong. I didn't attack his character or nothing. I didn't insinuate questionable parentage, cause that's out of bounds and not relative to the idea. I object to his ideas, and yes "artistic vision" does not mean 'excuse not to think things through'

[Ethreon]

"Old Spice, you're so full of s***."

 

Perhaps I'm too sensible, maybe this is some kind of salute for you and people you know. Maybe that's how you say hi to your parents and other relatives.. who knows. But we'd like you to keep it to yourself.

 

The comms evolved. Art style remained the same (paintings, music etc). It's all the way it should be and no other. Don't like, grab CK when it's out and make whatever lore you want. Or play other games that conform your views. This is what fallout was about all the time. Anyway, moot point. Beth doesn't give a damn about our opinion on lore.

[charwo]

"Anyway, moot point. Beth doesn't give a damn about our opinion on lore."

Oh I know that is very true. But the fact is artistic vision or not, it's a bad, bad, nonsensical design derision. There is such a thing as bad art, and there is such a thing as plot holes and whether they are intentional or not makes no defense of their wisdom. The OP is utterly correct, 200 years is WAY too long along for this level of technology to A, still be holding out from 2077, and still be holding at this level of ramshakleness.

 

We are well justified in being critical of Bethesda's creation, because art is not an excuse for bad design, thoughtless worldbuilding and lazy storytelling, much less the most undymanic world I've played in a Fallout game.This game is a giant dumpster fire and not being able to get my money back, I'm morbidly curious to see if mods can ever fix it.I probably won't be playing again for years. It will certainly be the last Bethesda product I ever buy.

[Ethreon]

"Anyway, moot point. Beth doesn't give a damn about our opinion on lore."

 

Oh I know that is very true. But the fact is artistic vision or not, it's a bad, bad, nonsensical design derision. There is such a thing as bad art, and there is such a thing as plot holes and whether they are intentional or not makes no defense of their wisdom. The OP is utterly correct, 200 years is WAY too long along for this level of technology to A, still be holding out from 2077, and still be holding at this level of ramshakleness.

 

We are well justified in being critical of Bethesda's creation, because art is not an excuse for bad design, thoughtless worldbuilding and lazy storytelling, much less the most undymanic world I've played in a Fallout game.This game is a giant dumpster fire and not being able to get my money back, I'm morbidly curious to see if mods can ever fix it.I probably won't be playing again for years. It will certainly be the last Bethesda product I ever buy.

 

Remember first Fallout games were around 100 years after war (F1 is set 84 years after the Great War; F2 is set in 2241). Not denying you being critical of Beth, in fact I encourage that, specially since their last game is just a pew-pew with Fallout aspects. Just don't go around claiming you own the ultimate truth, or that the Fallout style should change 'cause society evolved. I'd dislike the game even more if the style changed, and I'm sure plenty others would feel the same, leaving the game with only kiddies and newcomers that want to enjoy a casual stroll thru yet another wasteland.

[charwo]

Well that's the thing, a series of any kind has to progress in order to survive. You can't take a game that spans decades and have the same style, the same music, the same clothes and not have it developed. I mean all of the ruins are a fixed point sure, but although I found Fallout 2 denser and wackier than Fallout 1 and I didn't really like that for the most part, tangible progress was a great hallmark that more than made up for it. Seeing the reformation of society, seeing the frontier advance and close was one of the highlights playing both Fallout 2 and New Vegas. It meant victory, so I didn't mind that DLC aside, New Vegas was almost entirely a western and almost nothing of post-apocalypse in the conventional sense. Society had moved on and the genre shifted accordingly. ANd this the single worst part of Fallout 4: it doesn't change and shift genre to fit it's surroundings. Fallout4's setting lends itself to less shooting, less exploration, and more city noir and political intrigue. It one of the reasons why the Railroad missions were one of the few that I actually enjoyed.

 

Besides, even a half-decent franchise like Borderlands actually benefited from going to from FPS to Adventure game, in Tales From the Borderlands. Not a permanent shift mind you, but one that demonstrates the world's versatility, and the willingness of writers to adapt genre approaches to the story as it presents itself.

And Fallout is increasingly being made for the newbs and the casuals as it is. I've been with Fallout from the beginning, and I will not buy Fallout 5. And judging from hate on the outliers I'm not the only one.