Nazi - flag

[Moraelin]

Actually, now it hits me... was the picture you saw with very short final "arms" on the swastika? Because the vast majority of photos of tanks with swastikas are of those, and then... it's actually of Finnish tanks. That was Finland's flag.

 

I'm assuming you didn't build your diorama of GERMAN tanks using the FINNISH flag, because, you know, that would be hilarious if that's the basis for the whole "OTHERS don't know their history" rant :tongue:

[jcdenton2012]

Once again... can we please lock this thread? This entire thing was resolved long ago and now we're just going in circles.

[JuJooGuppy]

For the final time: The mod CONTENT was NOT an issue -- freedom of choice, etc etc, wasnt designed to be offensive, etc etc. What WAS a problem was him uploading a very pro-hitler / pro-nazi "documentary" and otherwise seeming to promote extreme socialism. THAT was the issue, people. That was what caused it to get removed.

So yes, please, please.. lock this and be done with it. Also, ban that Guppy guy, he's an ass.

[tomomi1922]

 

You see, even talk like yours will "offend" a lot of people here. I am making a simple mod to shoot at Nazi and people cry and scream over the fact that "my grandparents were victim, you should not even mention the word Nazi".

Well, both my grandfathers fought in WWII, and one of them was crippled. Both on the eastern front too. And don't even get me started on the frikken partisans :tongue:

 

Can I get offended yet? :wink:

 

*Ahem* Now seriously, if you want to make a mod, just make a mod already. I must confess that I have all respect for people who put all the effort into making a mod, even if it's just a batch file, and I have all respect for people who contribute otherwise, even if it's just adding their own better photo to someone else's mod. I have NO respect for people who seem to be here just to fan the flames and be the professional victim in some manufactured controversy, on either side of it. I don't think that rabble rouser is a valuable skill that the community really needs.

 

Now of course, how far that can go is not up to me. We have moderators for that. But just saying, _I_ for one would have a lot more respect if I actually saw a mod in your profile, than just some more fanning the flames over whether X or Y belongs in the game, and what's wrong with people who think otherwise, or what's wrong if the moderators did/didn't allow it.

 

You want to make a mod? Make it already. You want nazis in it? Go for it. Hell, go nuts and make them undead werewolf space nazis, for all I care, and from what I can tell, for what the mods care too. What's there to pre-debate anyway?

 

Just my 2c.

 

Thanks for the encouragement. It's not that I don't want to make, it is taking more time and efforts than initially planned. I started a thread over this, specially asked people to discuss modding and no political debate. But people filled all 3 pages with back and forth political stuff .... even how they tried their hardest to convince me to create something ....entirely new ... some aliens something....

 

Initially I wanted to just replace all raiders' outfits textures and mesh. I survived the process of replacing all underarmor outfit. Planned to replace the junky Raider armors to Combat Armors with swatika or something. But I ran into problems such as .... raiders seem to mix outfits and hats. Like camo helmet on some nice black officer uniform. Raiders have a lot of headgear without face (about 4 out of 7 of them). So if I replace them with open face hats (so far that is all I got, beside 1 assault gasmask retexture that covers the entire head) .... then raiders will run around with invisible faces: hat floating above the headless body.

 

The biggest problem is still the ... dirty faces and mohawks. They do look like junkies, or Mad Max's crazy goons. At least Gunners have better looking face models. They actually have clean nice faces and proper military hair.

 

This is why the mod is not out for download yet. It's just too lousy of a job with simple texture replacement,. Now maybe I think I will use Gunners instead of Raiders. Gunners already have the German looking faces: nice blonde hair, no mohawk, and generally cleaner. And they wear military fatigue and combat armors. I imagine it would be a lot easier to just "retexture" them instead of forcing a hood to look like captain hat (and resulting in headless NPC with floating hat).

[Moraelin]

Don't diss texture replacements. My second most downloaded NV mod was just retextures of the Benny suit.

 

You'd be surprised how many of us fancy playing a sharp-dressed, shall we say, brain-surgeon. You know, doing pro-bono lobotomies in .44 Magnum, courtesy of messrs Smith and Wesson, purveyors of fine brain-surgery equipment since 1852 :tongue:

 

Or how a smarter man than me wrote:

 

"All assassins had a full-length mirror in their rooms, because it would be a terrible insult to anyone to kill them when you were badly dressed." -- Terry Pratchett, "Pyramids"

[tomomi1922]

Don't diss texture replacements. My second most downloaded NV mod was just retextures of the Benny suit.

 

You'd be surprised how many of us fancy playing a sharp-dressed, shall we say, brain-surgeon. You know, doing pro-bono lobotomies in .44 Magnum, courtesy of messrs Smith and Wesson, purveyors of fine brain-surgery equipment since 1852 :tongue:

 

Or how a smarter man than me wrote:

 

"All assassins had a full-length mirror in their rooms, because it would be a terrible insult to anyone to kill them when you were badly dressed." -- Terry Pratchett, "Pyramids"

Oh I am not dissing it. Just so far, my result is not that great. I guess mainly I need to learn how to replace all Raider faces. That will need an .esp and a good amount of work. And I have no solution to the floating hats as replacer. I need to clear Raiders level list so they can stop wearing Raider stuff and wear my stuff. Which means I need to make standalone mods.

 

Making standalone mod is actually easier than tracking down and replacing existing outfits. The harder part is to place them on level lists so all NPCs (of that faction) wear what I want them to wear.

 

Also, I have not been able to contact the author that started my concept

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1164/?

 

He/she expressly gave permission in mod description to re-use content. But I need extra support, especially dealing with some odd texture problem: Even using vanilla mesh (extracted with BAE), the outfits (mostly military fatique) looks .... bloated on NPCs. And I know how military fatigue looks, I often wear one (in game) and gave a few to my settlers.

Edited January 29, 2016 by tomomi1922

[Gilibran]

quote name="Moraelin" post="33906955" timestamp="1454021319"]

 

It's not only adding nazi stuff to games that gets thing stirred up and heated debates. I do modelbuilding, went from ww2 kits to GK anime kits but i've seen a lot of this over the years in ww2 modelbuilding forums. It's weird how people react, for instance you take a historic picture of a ww2 scene and rebuild that. It so happens that picture shows a German tank with swastika and german soldiers during some assault or taking a break from the fighting. Some people will fall all over you for sticking the swastika decals on the tank and depicting the German soldiers while they are doing unspeakable things!? It's a picture and i try to recreate a bit of history in a diorama. Now i have another picture with another German panzer with swastika but this time it's al shot up by some Sherman tanks and smoking wrecks of Shermans surround the destroyed panzer. (It took 4-5 Shermans to take out an experienced Panther or Tiger crew) I rebuild that picture into a diorama, stick the swastika, this time on a destroyed panzer surrounded by destroyed Shermans with GI's hanging out burned and maimed, and the same people go like, "Yes that's how it was, had to fight hard to take out a German tank, cost a lot of lives" nice diorama. Ok? so? No comment on the swastika this time? Those same people do build German panzer models as historically correct as possible down to the tiniest detail complaining about the fact the kit is 1943 Panzer ausfhurung 5 fg whatever but the tracks provided with the kit are those of a late 1944 Panzer ausfhurung 5 kj whatever but refuse to put the swastika on the model!?.

OK, if you want to talk history, we can talk history. Because it goes both ways.How about the fact that it's not needed? ALL Wehrmacht tanks just had the black cross on them, and even SS divisions often used their own symbols. E.g., the 2nd SS Division "Das Reich" used the wolf-trap rune as its insignia.Now if it were on AIRPLANE models, sure, those were required by international aviation law to have the flag on them, and they did. But tanks did not, except again, for a minority of SS units.So, yes, those who pay attention to the wheel arrangement, but see no need for a swastika on the tank, actually have historically valid point. Most tanks did not, even most SS tanks did not, and the minority that did were all SS.So basically you CHOOSE to play your wargame as SS or make your dioramas about the SS, even if that was a minority of tanks AND it wasn't even army. The SS was a paramilitary organization. Which is how it could enlist non-citizens. And also why it was preferred for... less honourable work, including outright pogroms. See the Einzatzgruppen, which were outright death squads.That's not just about WW2, nor about German tanks. You're specifically choosing to depict THAT organization. It's got about as much to do with depicting a WW2 tank battle as ISIS has to do with depicting the middle East.And you wonder why people are offended? Really?Now I'm not telling you that you shouldn't do that, but it seems to me like if you choose to needlessly make it about specifically the SS, then don't act surprised if some people get funny thoughts about why it had to be specifically an SS unit.

 

I know about the horrific ss history, but it was an example, you did'nt get the point.

 

Swastika on a tank not destroyed = people falling all over you because you apparently are a nazi sympathiser.

 

Swastika on destroyed tank = people not falling all over you and you not being a nazi sympathiser.

 

Where is the logic in that?

 

The tank example was indeed the wrong one and I should have used the airplane, because as you stated it was international law and almost all German aircraft flew the Swastika.

 

People have all the freedom to do whatever they want and i'll be the last to tell them what to do, but not sticking it on because of ?? It's historical denial imho. You cannot write the horrors of the ss out of the history books or the swastika nazi connection even if the luftwaffe had the most anti Hitler personel and pretend it did'nt exist. You do not have to build it yourself but do not attack and judge people because they do. And that is whats happening alot.

 

Sticking a Swastika on a historic model does not make you a nazi symphatiser but some people just cannot make that distinction and you cannot convince them of that fact. They are so stubborn about it for the rest of your life you are a nazi sympathiser to them and that's just plain stupid about peoples reactions. It's also sad because it makes having a normal discussion about it impossible and turns into a black and white debate in seconds.

 

It's as i said nazi symbols do weird things to even normally sensible people and reason leaves the building pretty quickly.

[TheOriginalEvilD]

Hasn't Wolfenstein already had swastikas in their games for something like 20 years now?

[tomomi1922]

Hasn't Wolfenstein already had swastikas in their games for something like 20 years now?

 

Perhaps Wolfenstein was banned in those countries and people wouldn't know about its existence. Not surprised.

[oldspice2625]

I think that it's kind of weird that it's okay for a faux Roman Empire to be totally okay to be depicted in game (NV: Caesar's Legion) yet it's totally off limits for Neo Nazi or extreme racist groups NOT to exist in the fallout world via Raider gangs.

 

In literally all gangs, there is extreme racism. The Bloods and the Crips, MS13's, Vice Lords, and such...

 

It's weird that there's never revival of these extremist groups in a world that's scarce on resource, and that's usually what causes these extreme ideologies to gain traction in the first place, it always has been the reason.

 

I'd honestly say that it's a stretch to have Caesar's Legion and NOT a revival of Nazism or Stalinism, considering the commies were the ones that were super dangeous right before the bombs (Albeit, Chinese commies, but, you know...).

 

I mean, it would make a lot of sense, because the message would definitely alure a lot of people who felt miserable and wanted a common cause to rally around the make their miserable lives better. The wasteland is the perfect setting for such a vile ideology to rear its ugly head.

 

And Beth likes to do the whole "The good guys versus the bad guys" trope in their fallout games. I guess it's just that people are too weak stomached to accept history.

 

As a historian, I cringe whenever people want to wash away the pain of the past, because you'd only be doing the service of removing what NEED NOT BE FORGOTTEN in the first place, and potentially allowing it to be reborn. No. It happened. If you can't handle it, tough.

 

Anyways, I thought it was really interesting, and a good job all around for removing the roots of bastardizing history and getting people all riled up. Cheers to that!

 

Anyways, I wouldn't mind a world war II themed mod that reintroduces some stuff into it. It'd be a nice touch, I think, with the whole "minutemen: Freedom Trail" and all of the revolutionary war stuff having extremism to fight.