Fallout 4 Beta Update and DLC, Creation Kit News

[ArmoredTroll]

Everything about the new survival update sounded nice except one thing. Disabling manual saves in a Bethesda game is unwise. While much more stable than Skyrim, I would still hate to lose an hour or two of game-play because of a random CTD.

[Deleted1744345User]

I feel like buying the season pass now to save $20, but I know I'll get disappointed again like I was with the base game. I'll probably wait a few years when everything is cheap and good mods have fully developed. This whole "Season Pass" nonsense has to end, or I'll have to find cheaper ways to entertain myself outside of video games.

[Monrovae]

In response to post #34909225. #34911540, #34912605, #34914740, #34916115, #34916775, #34923105, #34926225, #34938020, #34938455, #35036235, #35037285 are all replies on the same post.

kebrus wrote: I already bought the season pass but I'm now considering a refund.

I hate getting screwed over. They basically delayed the CK to sell more DLCs, thats the gist of it. This is despicable, it shows greed over customer satisfaction. I'm not saying they should not do DLC, but the original promise for the game was the game plus the modding tools, why am I receiving DLCs before the main promise? because the DLC is ready but the tools are not? we are not talking about 3d and 2d assets that could have been done a long time ago, we are talking about whole systems, we are also not talking about a tool that didn't existed before, whatever updates they had for CK should have been a priority over the addons.

They knew that promising the CK for fallout would sell more copies but they also knew that releasing it at the same time as the game or too soon after would make the DLC less attractive so they go for the middle ground, they promise one thing and change it later with lame excuses, 50$ for the season pass? can they really deliver 50$ worth of content? are you telling me all DLCs combined with be worth almost the totality of the main game? all of us know this is not the truth, I wouldn't be surprised if they went 2KGames on this and released a "second" season...

/rant

PS: Didn't they say Q1? or just early 2016?

Jinxxed0 wrote: I doubt they delayed the CK for more DLC sales. DLCs are going to sell regardless because they all eventually become requirements for many mods. Especially since these DLCs will add new systems and assets, many mods will make use of them once the CK comes out.

No need to be dramatic about it. Delays and unforseen things happen all the times. They're doing something they've never done before which is getting mods onto multiple platforms without breaking down. If you've ever bothered to play around the creation kits for these games, you'll know that they're beyond buggy and barely held together with tape and chewing gum and constantly spewing our errors and always on the verge of crashing. So the more time they spend on this one, the better.

kebrus wrote: Why do you doubt it? Have you seen what as been accomplish without CK? Have they released the CK at the same time as the game and a single modder could have done the Automatron DLC by now if not more.

Also I'm not talking out of my ass, I'm a game-developer and I'm familiar with the tools from my time with Skyrim. Meteorites do happen and cannot be accounted for, while having mods on multiple platforms is new, nothing else is, in fact, even if that was the issue wouldn't it make more sense to have the tool out there so they would give modders the time to actually create stuff and see whats needed before getting it to work on the consoles? Do you really believe they'll release the CK and console mod support at the same time?

of course not...

I'm not being dramatic, the consumer should dictate with their money, Bethesda is quietly screwing over with their consumers and they (we) let them. Increasing the price for a season pass is also a first, can you take a guess why they did it? I ask again, do you really believe all DLC combined (these and future ones) are actually worth the base game in terms of scope and quality?

The only unforseen event here is how quickly the modders got to create such good tools, gotta have something to remedy that, oh wait, price increase.

They are such a bunch of good guys for giving us till the end of the month to pay less.
/sarcarm

RaffTheSweetling wrote: I had that exact same thought regarding the delay in getting the CK to us, and what it represents.

I don't think you should mix the issues though - You bought your season pass for DL-content, not for the CK, because the CK was going to be free, and the dl-content was not.
You are getting what you paid for first (and at a better price), and getting the free tool slightly later. It shouldn't matter that the free content comes out later, if your reason for buying the Season Pass was to get the dl-content, right?

I feel the same as you regarding the CK however. I feel at this point that the quality standard of our mods is surpassing the official content quality and this may be something the developers want to prevent/obfuscate, perhaps to be able to sell products that are clones of mods from F03/NV/Skyrim, and perhaps to avoid looking lazy. I don't know.

kebrus wrote: @RaffTheSweetling

You are certainly right. I got the season pass for the DLC and not for the CK but not getting it is the only way I have to speak with my wallet, I would get the refund for the game if I could and wait it out some time, I only got Skyrim almost a year after release so I don't mind waiting.

It's the principle and the potential repercussions I'm against of. I shouldn't feel special because they decided to up the price without any kinds of hints about it, and this is certainly not a discount either, again, I challenge everyone to actually believe they will be giving us DLC almost the size of the full game because that's what it represents. Prices go down with time for games, not higher, the reason season pass even exist is to serve as monetary incentive to create more content. Before season passes all DLC was being sold as standalone pieces (at best packs of them). They actually managed to create demand for the season pass with this stunt, sharing top places with popular games, just think about it for a second, them asking for MORE money for content people barely know anything about that doesn't even exist yet actually competes with top selling available games.

If other companies catch this trend we are in for more bullshit in this industry.

Dreogan wrote: The CK really doesn't relate to DLC sales in any way. I'm quite confident this CK is slower in coming than it was for Skyrim due to issues related to scope, complexity, and polish.

Brandy_123 wrote: I think the delay was built into the model. Its just a good business practice to sell off as much of your product as possible, then the schematics to fix them.

I have the season pass and hope to get much more content. I look at it as hours of game time per dollar spent. There has been very few games that have given me so much return play time since Oblivion then Bethesda games.There certainly are lots of problems, things that should have been fixed prior to release. Such is life with Bethesda. They expect the community will fix/append/overcome issues they themselves either can't or wont fix. We all enjoy their works and we just as much enjoy the incredible talent here on Nexus.

Those who opt to not get the pass will be left behind like in Skyrim. As the mods become more integrated with the content from them, the less will be available for those who declined the purchase.

talosthoren wrote: Turns out software development is a lot of work, and teams have to prioritize their decisions based on what's best for the company.

Patience is a virtue.

djekmiami wrote: 100% agreed with kebrus on this. They know the capability of the modders now following the modding community's success with Skyrim. Business wise it is not wise to give consumers the ability to create content at no cost rather than only have paid content available. Its really obvious, any notion aside from the aforementioned derives from being naive.

Whether it is right or wrong is none of our business as the consumer.

ClamSwank wrote: I agree with the original post, Bethesda is on some BS right now. greed greed greed... really disappointing to see it from these guys, changing my views on them.

talosthoren wrote: Greed Greed Greed? They develop proprietary software. Yeah, they expect to make money.

Iterative project development commonly involves cost reevaluations. You don't always know what the full scope of your project is going to be until you've gone through a development cycle.

TWillard wrote: With adding in the survival mode, they probably had to delay the CK.

This makes no sense and implies an adversarial relationship between modders and BGS. The CK for BGS games has taken them roughly 6 months to release for their other games and... look at that! It will be 6 months since release in April. Learn some patience, young padawan.

PS: They said early 2016.

PPS: The release of the CK isn't going to affect the DLC sales as much as you think, if at all (might help actually, all those awesome mods need assets - DLC assets). Default to conspiracy if you want to... get a refund if you wish... but I'll be enjoying some awesome mods and DLC come April. Edited February 28, 2016 by me1mn0t

[Fezik]

In response to post #34909225. #34911540, #34912605, #34914740, #34916115, #34916775, #34923105, #34926225, #34938020, #34938455, #35036235, #35037285, #35074330 are all replies on the same post.

kebrus wrote: I already bought the season pass but I'm now considering a refund.

I hate getting screwed over. They basically delayed the CK to sell more DLCs, thats the gist of it. This is despicable, it shows greed over customer satisfaction. I'm not saying they should not do DLC, but the original promise for the game was the game plus the modding tools, why am I receiving DLCs before the main promise? because the DLC is ready but the tools are not? we are not talking about 3d and 2d assets that could have been done a long time ago, we are talking about whole systems, we are also not talking about a tool that didn't existed before, whatever updates they had for CK should have been a priority over the addons.

They knew that promising the CK for fallout would sell more copies but they also knew that releasing it at the same time as the game or too soon after would make the DLC less attractive so they go for the middle ground, they promise one thing and change it later with lame excuses, 50$ for the season pass? can they really deliver 50$ worth of content? are you telling me all DLCs combined with be worth almost the totality of the main game? all of us know this is not the truth, I wouldn't be surprised if they went 2KGames on this and released a "second" season...

/rant

PS: Didn't they say Q1? or just early 2016?

Jinxxed0 wrote: I doubt they delayed the CK for more DLC sales. DLCs are going to sell regardless because they all eventually become requirements for many mods. Especially since these DLCs will add new systems and assets, many mods will make use of them once the CK comes out.

No need to be dramatic about it. Delays and unforseen things happen all the times. They're doing something they've never done before which is getting mods onto multiple platforms without breaking down. If you've ever bothered to play around the creation kits for these games, you'll know that they're beyond buggy and barely held together with tape and chewing gum and constantly spewing our errors and always on the verge of crashing. So the more time they spend on this one, the better.

kebrus wrote: Why do you doubt it? Have you seen what as been accomplish without CK? Have they released the CK at the same time as the game and a single modder could have done the Automatron DLC by now if not more.

Also I'm not talking out of my ass, I'm a game-developer and I'm familiar with the tools from my time with Skyrim. Meteorites do happen and cannot be accounted for, while having mods on multiple platforms is new, nothing else is, in fact, even if that was the issue wouldn't it make more sense to have the tool out there so they would give modders the time to actually create stuff and see whats needed before getting it to work on the consoles? Do you really believe they'll release the CK and console mod support at the same time?

of course not...

I'm not being dramatic, the consumer should dictate with their money, Bethesda is quietly screwing over with their consumers and they (we) let them. Increasing the price for a season pass is also a first, can you take a guess why they did it? I ask again, do you really believe all DLC combined (these and future ones) are actually worth the base game in terms of scope and quality?

The only unforseen event here is how quickly the modders got to create such good tools, gotta have something to remedy that, oh wait, price increase.

They are such a bunch of good guys for giving us till the end of the month to pay less.
/sarcarm

RaffTheSweetling wrote: I had that exact same thought regarding the delay in getting the CK to us, and what it represents.

I don't think you should mix the issues though - You bought your season pass for DL-content, not for the CK, because the CK was going to be free, and the dl-content was not.
You are getting what you paid for first (and at a better price), and getting the free tool slightly later. It shouldn't matter that the free content comes out later, if your reason for buying the Season Pass was to get the dl-content, right?

I feel the same as you regarding the CK however. I feel at this point that the quality standard of our mods is surpassing the official content quality and this may be something the developers want to prevent/obfuscate, perhaps to be able to sell products that are clones of mods from F03/NV/Skyrim, and perhaps to avoid looking lazy. I don't know.

kebrus wrote: @RaffTheSweetling

You are certainly right. I got the season pass for the DLC and not for the CK but not getting it is the only way I have to speak with my wallet, I would get the refund for the game if I could and wait it out some time, I only got Skyrim almost a year after release so I don't mind waiting.

It's the principle and the potential repercussions I'm against of. I shouldn't feel special because they decided to up the price without any kinds of hints about it, and this is certainly not a discount either, again, I challenge everyone to actually believe they will be giving us DLC almost the size of the full game because that's what it represents. Prices go down with time for games, not higher, the reason season pass even exist is to serve as monetary incentive to create more content. Before season passes all DLC was being sold as standalone pieces (at best packs of them). They actually managed to create demand for the season pass with this stunt, sharing top places with popular games, just think about it for a second, them asking for MORE money for content people barely know anything about that doesn't even exist yet actually competes with top selling available games.

If other companies catch this trend we are in for more bullshit in this industry.

Dreogan wrote: The CK really doesn't relate to DLC sales in any way. I'm quite confident this CK is slower in coming than it was for Skyrim due to issues related to scope, complexity, and polish.

Brandy_123 wrote: I think the delay was built into the model. Its just a good business practice to sell off as much of your product as possible, then the schematics to fix them.

I have the season pass and hope to get much more content. I look at it as hours of game time per dollar spent. There has been very few games that have given me so much return play time since Oblivion then Bethesda games.There certainly are lots of problems, things that should have been fixed prior to release. Such is life with Bethesda. They expect the community will fix/append/overcome issues they themselves either can't or wont fix. We all enjoy their works and we just as much enjoy the incredible talent here on Nexus.

Those who opt to not get the pass will be left behind like in Skyrim. As the mods become more integrated with the content from them, the less will be available for those who declined the purchase.

talosthoren wrote: Turns out software development is a lot of work, and teams have to prioritize their decisions based on what's best for the company.

Patience is a virtue.

djekmiami wrote: 100% agreed with kebrus on this. They know the capability of the modders now following the modding community's success with Skyrim. Business wise it is not wise to give consumers the ability to create content at no cost rather than only have paid content available. Its really obvious, any notion aside from the aforementioned derives from being naive.

Whether it is right or wrong is none of our business as the consumer.

ClamSwank wrote: I agree with the original post, Bethesda is on some BS right now. greed greed greed... really disappointing to see it from these guys, changing my views on them.

talosthoren wrote: Greed Greed Greed? They develop proprietary software. Yeah, they expect to make money.

Iterative project development commonly involves cost reevaluations. You don't always know what the full scope of your project is going to be until you've gone through a development cycle.

TWillard wrote: With adding in the survival mode, they probably had to delay the CK.

me1mn0t wrote: This makes no sense and implies an adversarial relationship between modders and BGS. The CK for BGS games has taken them roughly 6 months to release for their other games and... look at that! It will be 6 months since release in April. Learn some patience, young padawan.

PS: They said early 2016.

PPS: The release of the CK isn't going to affect the DLC sales as much as you think, if at all (might help actually, all those awesome mods need assets - DLC assets). Default to conspiracy if you want to... get a refund if you wish... but I'll be enjoying some awesome mods and DLC come April.

Don't forget that they are attempting to port the CK to consoles. Which, laughable as that may be, most likely took resources and time that has slowed the release for PC.

[HeRoKickXX]

In response to post #34909225. #34911540, #34912605, #34914740, #34916115, #34916775, #34923105, #34926225, #34938020, #34938455, #35036235, #35037285, #35074330, #35074855 are all replies on the same post.

kebrus wrote: I already bought the season pass but I'm now considering a refund.

I hate getting screwed over. They basically delayed the CK to sell more DLCs, thats the gist of it. This is despicable, it shows greed over customer satisfaction. I'm not saying they should not do DLC, but the original promise for the game was the game plus the modding tools, why am I receiving DLCs before the main promise? because the DLC is ready but the tools are not? we are not talking about 3d and 2d assets that could have been done a long time ago, we are talking about whole systems, we are also not talking about a tool that didn't existed before, whatever updates they had for CK should have been a priority over the addons.

They knew that promising the CK for fallout would sell more copies but they also knew that releasing it at the same time as the game or too soon after would make the DLC less attractive so they go for the middle ground, they promise one thing and change it later with lame excuses, 50$ for the season pass? can they really deliver 50$ worth of content? are you telling me all DLCs combined with be worth almost the totality of the main game? all of us know this is not the truth, I wouldn't be surprised if they went 2KGames on this and released a "second" season...

/rant

PS: Didn't they say Q1? or just early 2016?

Jinxxed0 wrote: I doubt they delayed the CK for more DLC sales. DLCs are going to sell regardless because they all eventually become requirements for many mods. Especially since these DLCs will add new systems and assets, many mods will make use of them once the CK comes out.

No need to be dramatic about it. Delays and unforseen things happen all the times. They're doing something they've never done before which is getting mods onto multiple platforms without breaking down. If you've ever bothered to play around the creation kits for these games, you'll know that they're beyond buggy and barely held together with tape and chewing gum and constantly spewing our errors and always on the verge of crashing. So the more time they spend on this one, the better.

kebrus wrote: Why do you doubt it? Have you seen what as been accomplish without CK? Have they released the CK at the same time as the game and a single modder could have done the Automatron DLC by now if not more.

Also I'm not talking out of my ass, I'm a game-developer and I'm familiar with the tools from my time with Skyrim. Meteorites do happen and cannot be accounted for, while having mods on multiple platforms is new, nothing else is, in fact, even if that was the issue wouldn't it make more sense to have the tool out there so they would give modders the time to actually create stuff and see whats needed before getting it to work on the consoles? Do you really believe they'll release the CK and console mod support at the same time?

of course not...

I'm not being dramatic, the consumer should dictate with their money, Bethesda is quietly screwing over with their consumers and they (we) let them. Increasing the price for a season pass is also a first, can you take a guess why they did it? I ask again, do you really believe all DLC combined (these and future ones) are actually worth the base game in terms of scope and quality?

The only unforseen event here is how quickly the modders got to create such good tools, gotta have something to remedy that, oh wait, price increase.

They are such a bunch of good guys for giving us till the end of the month to pay less.
/sarcarm

RaffTheSweetling wrote: I had that exact same thought regarding the delay in getting the CK to us, and what it represents.

I don't think you should mix the issues though - You bought your season pass for DL-content, not for the CK, because the CK was going to be free, and the dl-content was not.
You are getting what you paid for first (and at a better price), and getting the free tool slightly later. It shouldn't matter that the free content comes out later, if your reason for buying the Season Pass was to get the dl-content, right?

I feel the same as you regarding the CK however. I feel at this point that the quality standard of our mods is surpassing the official content quality and this may be something the developers want to prevent/obfuscate, perhaps to be able to sell products that are clones of mods from F03/NV/Skyrim, and perhaps to avoid looking lazy. I don't know.

kebrus wrote: @RaffTheSweetling

You are certainly right. I got the season pass for the DLC and not for the CK but not getting it is the only way I have to speak with my wallet, I would get the refund for the game if I could and wait it out some time, I only got Skyrim almost a year after release so I don't mind waiting.

It's the principle and the potential repercussions I'm against of. I shouldn't feel special because they decided to up the price without any kinds of hints about it, and this is certainly not a discount either, again, I challenge everyone to actually believe they will be giving us DLC almost the size of the full game because that's what it represents. Prices go down with time for games, not higher, the reason season pass even exist is to serve as monetary incentive to create more content. Before season passes all DLC was being sold as standalone pieces (at best packs of them). They actually managed to create demand for the season pass with this stunt, sharing top places with popular games, just think about it for a second, them asking for MORE money for content people barely know anything about that doesn't even exist yet actually competes with top selling available games.

If other companies catch this trend we are in for more bullshit in this industry.

Dreogan wrote: The CK really doesn't relate to DLC sales in any way. I'm quite confident this CK is slower in coming than it was for Skyrim due to issues related to scope, complexity, and polish.

Brandy_123 wrote: I think the delay was built into the model. Its just a good business practice to sell off as much of your product as possible, then the schematics to fix them.

I have the season pass and hope to get much more content. I look at it as hours of game time per dollar spent. There has been very few games that have given me so much return play time since Oblivion then Bethesda games.There certainly are lots of problems, things that should have been fixed prior to release. Such is life with Bethesda. They expect the community will fix/append/overcome issues they themselves either can't or wont fix. We all enjoy their works and we just as much enjoy the incredible talent here on Nexus.

Those who opt to not get the pass will be left behind like in Skyrim. As the mods become more integrated with the content from them, the less will be available for those who declined the purchase.

talosthoren wrote: Turns out software development is a lot of work, and teams have to prioritize their decisions based on what's best for the company.

Patience is a virtue.

djekmiami wrote: 100% agreed with kebrus on this. They know the capability of the modders now following the modding community's success with Skyrim. Business wise it is not wise to give consumers the ability to create content at no cost rather than only have paid content available. Its really obvious, any notion aside from the aforementioned derives from being naive.

Whether it is right or wrong is none of our business as the consumer.

ClamSwank wrote: I agree with the original post, Bethesda is on some BS right now. greed greed greed... really disappointing to see it from these guys, changing my views on them.

talosthoren wrote: Greed Greed Greed? They develop proprietary software. Yeah, they expect to make money.

Iterative project development commonly involves cost reevaluations. You don't always know what the full scope of your project is going to be until you've gone through a development cycle.

TWillard wrote: With adding in the survival mode, they probably had to delay the CK.

me1mn0t wrote: This makes no sense and implies an adversarial relationship between modders and BGS. The CK for BGS games has taken them roughly 6 months to release for their other games and... look at that! It will be 6 months since release in April. Learn some patience, young padawan.

PS: They said early 2016.

PPS: The release of the CK isn't going to affect the DLC sales as much as you think, if at all (might help actually, all those awesome mods need assets - DLC assets). Default to conspiracy if you want to... get a refund if you wish... but I'll be enjoying some awesome mods and DLC come April.

Fezik wrote: Don't forget that they are attempting to port the CK to consoles. Which, laughable as that may be, most likely took resources and time that has slowed the release for PC.

Are you even serious? Of course they want to make money, do you think they work for free? Of course modders can make dlc-sized mods with the GECK,but that would mean not selling the dlc that they worked on(and believe me, game developing is not easy, these dlc take a lot of time to make, this is not CoD where dlc are 1 skin and 2 maps for 15$)
The day you wanna work for free, you can complain about people wanting to get paid for their work.

[HeRoKickXX]

In response to post #34909225. #34911540, #34912605, #34914740, #34916115, #34916775, #34923105, #34926225, #34938020, #34938455, #35036235, #35037285, #35074330, #35074855, #35075255 are all replies on the same post.

kebrus wrote: I already bought the season pass but I'm now considering a refund.

I hate getting screwed over. They basically delayed the CK to sell more DLCs, thats the gist of it. This is despicable, it shows greed over customer satisfaction. I'm not saying they should not do DLC, but the original promise for the game was the game plus the modding tools, why am I receiving DLCs before the main promise? because the DLC is ready but the tools are not? we are not talking about 3d and 2d assets that could have been done a long time ago, we are talking about whole systems, we are also not talking about a tool that didn't existed before, whatever updates they had for CK should have been a priority over the addons.

They knew that promising the CK for fallout would sell more copies but they also knew that releasing it at the same time as the game or too soon after would make the DLC less attractive so they go for the middle ground, they promise one thing and change it later with lame excuses, 50$ for the season pass? can they really deliver 50$ worth of content? are you telling me all DLCs combined with be worth almost the totality of the main game? all of us know this is not the truth, I wouldn't be surprised if they went 2KGames on this and released a "second" season...

/rant

PS: Didn't they say Q1? or just early 2016?

Jinxxed0 wrote: I doubt they delayed the CK for more DLC sales. DLCs are going to sell regardless because they all eventually become requirements for many mods. Especially since these DLCs will add new systems and assets, many mods will make use of them once the CK comes out.

No need to be dramatic about it. Delays and unforseen things happen all the times. They're doing something they've never done before which is getting mods onto multiple platforms without breaking down. If you've ever bothered to play around the creation kits for these games, you'll know that they're beyond buggy and barely held together with tape and chewing gum and constantly spewing our errors and always on the verge of crashing. So the more time they spend on this one, the better.

kebrus wrote: Why do you doubt it? Have you seen what as been accomplish without CK? Have they released the CK at the same time as the game and a single modder could have done the Automatron DLC by now if not more.

Also I'm not talking out of my ass, I'm a game-developer and I'm familiar with the tools from my time with Skyrim. Meteorites do happen and cannot be accounted for, while having mods on multiple platforms is new, nothing else is, in fact, even if that was the issue wouldn't it make more sense to have the tool out there so they would give modders the time to actually create stuff and see whats needed before getting it to work on the consoles? Do you really believe they'll release the CK and console mod support at the same time?

of course not...

I'm not being dramatic, the consumer should dictate with their money, Bethesda is quietly screwing over with their consumers and they (we) let them. Increasing the price for a season pass is also a first, can you take a guess why they did it? I ask again, do you really believe all DLC combined (these and future ones) are actually worth the base game in terms of scope and quality?

The only unforseen event here is how quickly the modders got to create such good tools, gotta have something to remedy that, oh wait, price increase.

They are such a bunch of good guys for giving us till the end of the month to pay less.
/sarcarm

RaffTheSweetling wrote: I had that exact same thought regarding the delay in getting the CK to us, and what it represents.

I don't think you should mix the issues though - You bought your season pass for DL-content, not for the CK, because the CK was going to be free, and the dl-content was not.
You are getting what you paid for first (and at a better price), and getting the free tool slightly later. It shouldn't matter that the free content comes out later, if your reason for buying the Season Pass was to get the dl-content, right?

I feel the same as you regarding the CK however. I feel at this point that the quality standard of our mods is surpassing the official content quality and this may be something the developers want to prevent/obfuscate, perhaps to be able to sell products that are clones of mods from F03/NV/Skyrim, and perhaps to avoid looking lazy. I don't know.

kebrus wrote: @RaffTheSweetling

You are certainly right. I got the season pass for the DLC and not for the CK but not getting it is the only way I have to speak with my wallet, I would get the refund for the game if I could and wait it out some time, I only got Skyrim almost a year after release so I don't mind waiting.

It's the principle and the potential repercussions I'm against of. I shouldn't feel special because they decided to up the price without any kinds of hints about it, and this is certainly not a discount either, again, I challenge everyone to actually believe they will be giving us DLC almost the size of the full game because that's what it represents. Prices go down with time for games, not higher, the reason season pass even exist is to serve as monetary incentive to create more content. Before season passes all DLC was being sold as standalone pieces (at best packs of them). They actually managed to create demand for the season pass with this stunt, sharing top places with popular games, just think about it for a second, them asking for MORE money for content people barely know anything about that doesn't even exist yet actually competes with top selling available games.

If other companies catch this trend we are in for more bullshit in this industry.

Dreogan wrote: The CK really doesn't relate to DLC sales in any way. I'm quite confident this CK is slower in coming than it was for Skyrim due to issues related to scope, complexity, and polish.

Brandy_123 wrote: I think the delay was built into the model. Its just a good business practice to sell off as much of your product as possible, then the schematics to fix them.

I have the season pass and hope to get much more content. I look at it as hours of game time per dollar spent. There has been very few games that have given me so much return play time since Oblivion then Bethesda games.There certainly are lots of problems, things that should have been fixed prior to release. Such is life with Bethesda. They expect the community will fix/append/overcome issues they themselves either can't or wont fix. We all enjoy their works and we just as much enjoy the incredible talent here on Nexus.

Those who opt to not get the pass will be left behind like in Skyrim. As the mods become more integrated with the content from them, the less will be available for those who declined the purchase.

talosthoren wrote: Turns out software development is a lot of work, and teams have to prioritize their decisions based on what's best for the company.

Patience is a virtue.

djekmiami wrote: 100% agreed with kebrus on this. They know the capability of the modders now following the modding community's success with Skyrim. Business wise it is not wise to give consumers the ability to create content at no cost rather than only have paid content available. Its really obvious, any notion aside from the aforementioned derives from being naive.

Whether it is right or wrong is none of our business as the consumer.

ClamSwank wrote: I agree with the original post, Bethesda is on some BS right now. greed greed greed... really disappointing to see it from these guys, changing my views on them.

talosthoren wrote: Greed Greed Greed? They develop proprietary software. Yeah, they expect to make money.

Iterative project development commonly involves cost reevaluations. You don't always know what the full scope of your project is going to be until you've gone through a development cycle.

TWillard wrote: With adding in the survival mode, they probably had to delay the CK.

me1mn0t wrote: This makes no sense and implies an adversarial relationship between modders and BGS. The CK for BGS games has taken them roughly 6 months to release for their other games and... look at that! It will be 6 months since release in April. Learn some patience, young padawan.

PS: They said early 2016.

PPS: The release of the CK isn't going to affect the DLC sales as much as you think, if at all (might help actually, all those awesome mods need assets - DLC assets). Default to conspiracy if you want to... get a refund if you wish... but I'll be enjoying some awesome mods and DLC come April.

Fezik wrote: Don't forget that they are attempting to port the CK to consoles. Which, laughable as that may be, most likely took resources and time that has slowed the release for PC.

HeRoKickXX wrote: Are you even serious? Of course they want to make money, do you think they work for free? Of course modders can make dlc-sized mods with the GECK,but that would mean not selling the dlc that they worked on(and believe me, game developing is not easy, these dlc take a lot of time to make, this is not CoD where dlc are 1 skin and 2 maps for 15$)
The day you wanna work for free, you can complain about people wanting to get paid for their work.

THANK YOU

[ChasmX]

In response to post #35055040.

ArmoredTroll wrote: Everything about the new survival update sounded nice except one thing. Disabling manual saves in a Bethesda game is unwise. While much more stable than Skyrim, I would still hate to lose an hour or two of game-play because of a random CTD.

pretty sure if they take out the option they still leave the console unchanged would make you able to creat a savegame with the "savegame xxx" command if you compare how similar their works are I really doubt they change the functions of the console even tough getting rid of the manual save

[Phion]

Nobody bought Fallout 4 for Fallout 4. They buy these shitty games because of the modding community to turn a turd into amazing rainbows. Delaying it so much is just stupid. 0 story, 0 RPG value, 0 replay value (besides the same grind-quests that make no sense), thoughtless perk system. 0/10

[killer005]

In response to post #35110715.

Phion wrote: Nobody bought Fallout 4 for Fallout 4. They buy these shitty games because of the modding community to turn a turd into amazing rainbows. Delaying it so much is just stupid. 0 story, 0 RPG value, 0 replay value (besides the same grind-quests that make no sense), thoughtless perk system. 0/10

Man, that´s your case, I bought F4 and I did not want to instal any mod before i finish the main quest. And you know what? For me, the best game in loong time. Yeah, have some bugs, and little things, but the game is fking art, the world, the characters, everything!

[Alkohol]

In response to post #35110715. #35113825 is also a reply to the same post.

Phion wrote: Nobody bought Fallout 4 for Fallout 4. They buy these shitty games because of the modding community to turn a turd into amazing rainbows. Delaying it so much is just stupid. 0 story, 0 RPG value, 0 replay value (besides the same grind-quests that make no sense), thoughtless perk system. 0/10

killer005 wrote: Man, that´s your case, I bought F4 and I did not want to instal any mod before i finish the main quest. And you know what? For me, the best game in loong time. Yeah, have some bugs, and little things, but the game is fking art, the world, the characters, everything!

I agree with the OP. Bethesda games are unplayable unmodded.