Modern slavery

[Kuraikiba]

Slavery was where people were sold, brutally tortured and beaten upon any infraction, inhumanely treated, and often died in working conditions. I very much fail to see how ANY correlation forms between taxes and slavery. Slavery was cruel and heartless, and not at all needed. Taxes are an evil but a necessary one.

 

Simple as that.

[csgators]

Slavery was where people were sold, brutally tortured and beaten upon any infraction, inhumanely treated, and often died in working conditions. I very much fail to see how ANY correlation forms between taxes and slavery. Slavery was cruel and heartless, and not at all needed. Taxes are an evil but a necessary one.

 

Simple as that.

 

Yeah, I knew there would be at least one post along these lines.

 

<Insert several paragraphs lamenting slavery and the fact that other peoples ancestors enslaved other peoples ancestors and treated them in a way that no one I have ever met would condone.>

 

So how is it right to force people to work for other people again? I do not mean to dismiss or diminish actual slavery that took place in the past, a practice that goes back to pretty much to the beginnings of human history but my point is: Should we not do something to address the injustices that take place in our own time?

Edited May 28, 2011 by csgators

[Vagrant0]

There is no such thing as true freedom, only relative freedom. We are all slaves to something even if we do not acknowledge it. Even a man who lives off alone in the wilderness is a slave to not only the country or place where he resides, but also the labors he must undertake simply to survive and protect himself in lieu of not having someone else he can entrust and support in those duties.

 

The taxes you pay, regardless what taxes they are, go to being spent on those things that allow your civilized life to exist. Without them, there would be no police (or courts, or prisons), no public roads, no military, and limited access to medicine, food, education, and countless other things. Just because the money which pays for these things may not come directly out of one type of tax or another doesn't mean that you wouldn't still end up paying for it somewhere. The matter of who pays for what is really kind of moot since we're all really paying for each other regardless what you think about it.

 

The only thing you can do is elect and promote people who can use that money responsibly, and encourage people to not abuse what services or power they have access to simply for their own benefit as if something is 'owed' to them. It is a system setup around the promise of our own mutual destruction should it fail, a fact which is missed on many these days.

[HeyYou]

Income tax was implemented to help pay for a world war. It was supposed to be temporary..... so much for that thought eh?

 

Abolishing the income tax, and implementing the 'fair' tax would destroy our economy. Consider the impact on the family budget when everything instantly jumped 25% (approximately) in price. Sure, you may get a bit more money in your paycheck, but, that would quickly be overwhelmed by the huge amounts of sales tax you would be paying out. The rich would feel a lot less of an impact, as it would be a smaller percentage of their income, than it would for the average Joe.

 

It isn't really slavery either. If you don't work, you don't pay. If you work for the government, you don't pay either. If you are on certain forms of retirement, you don't pay..... of course, ALL of those folks would have to pay the "fair" tax...... They would effectively have their income slashed by a like amount of whatever the tax was.... not a good scene.

 

A Flat income tax would be a far better option. You make money, a flat percentage of that money goes to the government. No tax returns, no LIBRARIES filled with books ONLY on tax law.....

 

Schools are paid for by property taxes. All of that money goes to whatever your state capitol is, and then is redistributed from there.

 

Roads are supposedly paid for by fuel taxes......

[csgators]

There is no such thing as true freedom, only relative freedom. We are all slaves to something even if we do not acknowledge it. Even a man who lives off alone in the wilderness is a slave to not only the country or place where he resides, but also the labors he must undertake simply to survive and protect himself in lieu of not having someone else he can entrust and support in those duties.

 

The taxes you pay, regardless what taxes they are, go to being spent on those things that allow your civilized life to exist. Without them, there would be no police (or courts, or prisons), no public roads, no military, and limited access to medicine, food, education, and countless other things. Just because the money which pays for these things may not come directly out of one type of tax or another doesn't mean that you wouldn't still end up paying for it somewhere. The matter of who pays for what is really kind of moot since we're all really paying for each other regardless what you think about it.

 

The only thing you can do is elect and promote people who can use that money responsibly, and encourage people to not abuse what services they have access to simply for their own benefit as if something is 'owed' to them. It is a system setup around the promise of our own mutual destruction should it fail, a fact which is missed on many these days.

 

Thank you for the thoughtful and very accurate post. The main thrust of this thread is to point out the system of taxation we currently have and how it is inherently unjust. Past injustice does not excuse current ones. There are many ways we could tax people based on their ability to pay (the fair tax being just one). Simply working to provide for oneself does not to me justify the automatic confiscation of property. The income tax has lead to deep ignorance of the cost of government and ignorance of how much people actually pay. A sales tax that exempted necessities would only tax those with spare money to burn and only tax them at the rate they spent that money. This seems to me a far fairer way to tax the population than simply confiscating the fruits of their labor regardless of the needs of the person in question.

[csgators]

Income tax was implemented to help pay for a world war. It was supposed to be temporary..... so much for that thought eh?

 

Abolishing the income tax, and implementing the 'fair' tax would destroy our economy. Consider the impact on the family budget when everything instantly jumped 25% (approximately) in price. Sure, you may get a bit more money in your paycheck, but, that would quickly be overwhelmed by the huge amounts of sales tax you would be paying out. The rich would feel a lot less of an impact, as it would be a smaller percentage of their income, than it would for the average Joe.

 

It isn't really slavery either. If you don't work, you don't pay. If you work for the government, you don't pay either. If you are on certain forms of retirement, you don't pay..... of course, ALL of those folks would have to pay the "fair" tax...... They would effectively have their income slashed by a like amount of whatever the tax was.... not a good scene.

 

A Flat income tax would be a far better option. You make money, a flat percentage of that money goes to the government. No tax returns, no LIBRARIES filled with books ONLY on tax law.....

 

Schools are paid for by property taxes. All of that money goes to whatever your state capitol is, and then is redistributed from there.

 

Roads are supposedly paid for by fuel taxes......

 

That family income that would be "slashed" by the fair tax would no longer be paying income tax or payroll taxes, with necessities exempted they would come out way ahead, only paying taxes on extra items that are not needed for survival. Same with your other examples, if you chose to live only on things you need you would pay no taxes, if you want to buy a new gadget than you can afford to pay some taxes.

 

Yes you can choose not to work but how does that help? In fact it helps to make my point, the income tax is a disincentive to produce. The more you work the more they take, so why work? Lets all just sit back and let someone else pay for it.

[HeyYou]

Income tax was implemented to help pay for a world war. It was supposed to be temporary..... so much for that thought eh?

 

Abolishing the income tax, and implementing the 'fair' tax would destroy our economy. Consider the impact on the family budget when everything instantly jumped 25% (approximately) in price. Sure, you may get a bit more money in your paycheck, but, that would quickly be overwhelmed by the huge amounts of sales tax you would be paying out. The rich would feel a lot less of an impact, as it would be a smaller percentage of their income, than it would for the average Joe.

 

It isn't really slavery either. If you don't work, you don't pay. If you work for the government, you don't pay either. If you are on certain forms of retirement, you don't pay..... of course, ALL of those folks would have to pay the "fair" tax...... They would effectively have their income slashed by a like amount of whatever the tax was.... not a good scene.

 

A Flat income tax would be a far better option. You make money, a flat percentage of that money goes to the government. No tax returns, no LIBRARIES filled with books ONLY on tax law.....

 

Schools are paid for by property taxes. All of that money goes to whatever your state capitol is, and then is redistributed from there.

 

Roads are supposedly paid for by fuel taxes......

 

That family income that would be "slashed" by the fair tax would no longer be paying income tax or payroll taxes, with necessities exempted they would come out way ahead, only paying taxes on extra items that are not needed for survival. Same with your other examples, if you chose to live only on things you need you would pay no taxes, if you want to buy a new gadget than you can afford to pay some taxes.

 

Yes you can choose not to work but how does that help? In fact it helps to make my point, the income tax is a disincentive to produce. The more you work the more they take, so why work? Lets all just sit back and let someone else pay for it.

 

Ah, so, we should do exactly what our government does, and just collect money, and not care where we spend it. :D

 

Necessities like, a car? House? Gas? Replace the busted refrigerator?

 

Would energy be exempted as a necessity? You know, the gas to heat your house? Or, the electricity to run the lights, etc?

 

And what of all those on a fixed income? (namely, the poor....) They would instantly be unable to afford anything, other than 'the necessities'...... no cars, no home appliances, etc. Jacking the price of EVERY consumer product in the united states be 25% would be a major blow to the economy. Its not just the math, its also the PERCEPTION. If that 20,000 dollar car just became a 25000 dollar car..... a lotta folks would be priced right out of the market.

 

No. I do not support a "fair" tax. I would be MUCH more inclined to support a Flat tax. The more you make, the more you pay. Simple.

[csgators]

Income tax was implemented to help pay for a world war. It was supposed to be temporary..... so much for that thought eh?

 

Abolishing the income tax, and implementing the 'fair' tax would destroy our economy. Consider the impact on the family budget when everything instantly jumped 25% (approximately) in price. Sure, you may get a bit more money in your paycheck, but, that would quickly be overwhelmed by the huge amounts of sales tax you would be paying out. The rich would feel a lot less of an impact, as it would be a smaller percentage of their income, than it would for the average Joe.

 

It isn't really slavery either. If you don't work, you don't pay. If you work for the government, you don't pay either. If you are on certain forms of retirement, you don't pay..... of course, ALL of those folks would have to pay the "fair" tax...... They would effectively have their income slashed by a like amount of whatever the tax was.... not a good scene.

 

A Flat income tax would be a far better option. You make money, a flat percentage of that money goes to the government. No tax returns, no LIBRARIES filled with books ONLY on tax law.....

 

Schools are paid for by property taxes. All of that money goes to whatever your state capitol is, and then is redistributed from there.

 

Roads are supposedly paid for by fuel taxes......

 

That family income that would be "slashed" by the fair tax would no longer be paying income tax or payroll taxes, with necessities exempted they would come out way ahead, only paying taxes on extra items that are not needed for survival. Same with your other examples, if you chose to live only on things you need you would pay no taxes, if you want to buy a new gadget than you can afford to pay some taxes.

 

Yes you can choose not to work but how does that help? In fact it helps to make my point, the income tax is a disincentive to produce. The more you work the more they take, so why work? Lets all just sit back and let someone else pay for it.

 

Ah, so, we should do exactly what our government does, and just collect money, and not care where we spend it. :D

 

Necessities like, a car? House? Gas? Replace the busted refrigerator?

 

Would energy be exempted as a necessity? You know, the gas to heat your house? Or, the electricity to run the lights, etc?

 

And what of all those on a fixed income? (namely, the poor....) They would instantly be unable to afford anything, other than 'the necessities'...... no cars, no home appliances, etc. Jacking the price of EVERY consumer product in the united states be 25% would be a major blow to the economy. Its not just the math, its also the PERCEPTION. If that 20,000 dollar car just became a 25000 dollar car..... a lotta folks would be priced right out of the market.

 

No. I do not support a "fair" tax. I would be MUCH more inclined to support a Flat tax. The more you make, the more you pay. Simple.

 

Taxes only apply to NEW items so if you buy a used car or a used house, no taxes.

[HeyYou]

Income tax was implemented to help pay for a world war. It was supposed to be temporary..... so much for that thought eh?

 

Abolishing the income tax, and implementing the 'fair' tax would destroy our economy. Consider the impact on the family budget when everything instantly jumped 25% (approximately) in price. Sure, you may get a bit more money in your paycheck, but, that would quickly be overwhelmed by the huge amounts of sales tax you would be paying out. The rich would feel a lot less of an impact, as it would be a smaller percentage of their income, than it would for the average Joe.

 

It isn't really slavery either. If you don't work, you don't pay. If you work for the government, you don't pay either. If you are on certain forms of retirement, you don't pay..... of course, ALL of those folks would have to pay the "fair" tax...... They would effectively have their income slashed by a like amount of whatever the tax was.... not a good scene.

 

A Flat income tax would be a far better option. You make money, a flat percentage of that money goes to the government. No tax returns, no LIBRARIES filled with books ONLY on tax law.....

 

Schools are paid for by property taxes. All of that money goes to whatever your state capitol is, and then is redistributed from there.

 

Roads are supposedly paid for by fuel taxes......

 

That family income that would be "slashed" by the fair tax would no longer be paying income tax or payroll taxes, with necessities exempted they would come out way ahead, only paying taxes on extra items that are not needed for survival. Same with your other examples, if you chose to live only on things you need you would pay no taxes, if you want to buy a new gadget than you can afford to pay some taxes.

 

Yes you can choose not to work but how does that help? In fact it helps to make my point, the income tax is a disincentive to produce. The more you work the more they take, so why work? Lets all just sit back and let someone else pay for it.

 

Ah, so, we should do exactly what our government does, and just collect money, and not care where we spend it. :D

 

Necessities like, a car? House? Gas? Replace the busted refrigerator?

 

Would energy be exempted as a necessity? You know, the gas to heat your house? Or, the electricity to run the lights, etc?

 

And what of all those on a fixed income? (namely, the poor....) They would instantly be unable to afford anything, other than 'the necessities'...... no cars, no home appliances, etc. Jacking the price of EVERY consumer product in the united states be 25% would be a major blow to the economy. Its not just the math, its also the PERCEPTION. If that 20,000 dollar car just became a 25000 dollar car..... a lotta folks would be priced right out of the market.

 

No. I do not support a "fair" tax. I would be MUCH more inclined to support a Flat tax. The more you make, the more you pay. Simple.

 

Taxes only apply to NEW items so if you buy a used car or a used house, no taxes.

 

I seriously doubt it would work that way. Currently, I pay taxes on any car I buy, whether I buy it new, used, or anything in between. If I don't pay at the point of sale, I pay when I go to transfer the title into my name.

 

There are a hell of a lot more 'used' houses on the market than there are new...... the government isn't going to not tax a major sale like that. Just ain't gonna happen.

[csgators]

 

I seriously doubt it would work that way. Currently, I pay taxes on any car I buy, whether I buy it new, used, or anything in between. If I don't pay at the point of sale, I pay when I go to transfer the title into my name.

 

There are a hell of a lot more 'used' houses on the market than there are new...... the government isn't going to not tax a major sale like that. Just ain't gonna happen.

 

You are basing the new tax system on the old one, and BTW what FEDERAL taxes do you currently pay on any cars or houses? Answer: none.