The pledge of allegiance

[HeyYou]

Sure, we have elected leaders that decide when we send in the military.... but, thinking that they will only do so when there is a 'valid' reason is a pipe dream. Iraq is a beautiful example. The reasons that were fed to the people for the war were all lies. There were no WMD's, Saddam was not pursuing them at all. He was no threat, was completely contained. There are more terrorists in Iraq NOW, than there were before we invaded. All in all, we threw away trillions of dollars, and countless lives, to end up worse off than we were before. World opinion of us tanked, the entire muslim world got an even dimmer view of us.

 

I support our troops, however, I do NOT support our government. They have proven to be just as corrupt, greedy, and dishonest, as any third-world dictator.

 

I agree to a point, the fact is if the government is sending troops around the world for no good reason we should remove that government.

 

Vote Ron Paul. :biggrin:

 

I don't think Ron Paul is the answer. Of course, I don't think ANY of the current crop of potential candidates is the answer either. :D Including our current president. It is the system that has gone sour. It is a far cry from what the founding fathers had envisioned for us.

As I said before, the source is the corporations buying our representatives. Kind of hard to pass a law to change that.

 

Yep, that is the chief problem. The issue we have now though is, the system that put that in place, is highly unlikely to change, as the folks that are in a position to change it, are the same folks that benefit the most from the system as it currently is.

[Ghogiel]

It was the 80's, not really an option for me. Besides at the time I loved my country and didn't see the way we had betrayed our founding.

 

Still love my country, just lost respect for it.

Same. 80's as well. I did too, I was brought up to believe that the US was the greatest country that ever existed.

[Aurielius]

 

I never said I owe nothing to my country, I said I don't think anyone should be forced to do something for there country. You kept thinking that because you felt like thinking that. I said at least five times that I would be happy to help out the country, but that it should not be forced.

Can you find the quote I wrote that says I hate the country, or that I owe nothing to it?

I still find it a bit sad you can't be the slightest bit respectful in any of your reply's to me, it is still not helping your point.

"I also don't want to spend my time working for a country when I didn't choose to be born in it.". -The Root #2950577

 

" I am not obligated to do anything for my country unless the country gives me a reason to do so." .-The Root # 2969967

 

You really shouldn't make it so easy, just picked a couple of your better patriotic quotes. Respect is earned and you have not made the grade on an intellectual, ethical or moral basis for that honor to be afforded to you, I had fleeting hopes that you might mature given the opportunity but that was an error on my part. Satire is what you have earned however simply because forum rules prohibit outright expressions of contempt.

 

 

 

 

[marharth]

 

I never said I owe nothing to my country, I said I don't think anyone should be forced to do something for there country. You kept thinking that because you felt like thinking that. I said at least five times that I would be happy to help out the country, but that it should not be forced.

Can you find the quote I wrote that says I hate the country, or that I owe nothing to it?

I still find it a bit sad you can't be the slightest bit respectful in any of your reply's to me, it is still not helping your point.

"I also don't want to spend my time working for a country when I didn't choose to be born in it.". -The Root #2950577

 

" I am not obligated to do anything for my country unless the country gives me a reason to do so." .-The Root # 2969967

 

You really shouldn't make it so easy, just picked a couple of your better patriotic quotes. Respect is earned and you have not made the grade on an intellectual, ethical or moral basis for that honor to be afforded to you, I had fleeting hopes that you might mature given the opportunity but that was an error on my part. Satire is what you have earned however simply because forum rules prohibit outright expressions of contempt.

 

 

 

 

I am sorry to assume that human decency could make you a bit more respectful.

 

And you still seem it is OK to call me immature because you disagree with me. I would think someone with your experience should be able to rise above that.

 

Even if I was as immature and a evil unpatriotic USA hater, you should be able to express your views without being extremely rude and acting like you are superior in every way.

 

I didn't say that I "owe nothing to the country because I didn't choose to be born here."

 

I said that I should not be forced to work for a country just because I am a citizen of it.

 

I also said that I should only work for my country if the country deserves it.

 

You seem to think patriotism is blindly following your country despite its actions.

 

It seems to me by your quotes, that you prefer nationalism over freedom.

[Ghogiel]

You seem to think patriotism is blindly following your country despite its actions.

The very definition of patriotism practically says as much. Anyone who decides they are not devoted to their country and does not vigorously support it, is acting in an unpatriotic manner.

[marharth]

You seem to think patriotism is blindly following your country despite its actions.

The very definition of patriotism practically says as much. Anyone who decides they are not devoted to their country and does not vigorously support it, is acting in an unpatriotic manner.

Patriotism is a devotion to your country.

 

If you are devoted to the values of the original US, you should not support the current government or military.

 

You should also support the freedom to chose to work for your country or not.

[Ghogiel]

So it seems you know the definition, except you've added an extra clause to the definition.

[marharth]

So it seems you know the definition, except you've added an extra clause to the definition.

Devotion to a country is not devotion to the government and military, it is devotion to its values.

[HeyYou]

You seem to think patriotism is blindly following your country despite its actions.

The very definition of patriotism practically says as much. Anyone who decides they are not devoted to their country and does not vigorously support it, is acting in an unpatriotic manner.

 

My country, Right or wrong, but, MY country?

 

That's just scary. So, by this definition, Patriots accept whatever the government says, does what the government says, simply because it IS the government????? So, any revolutionaries are unpatriotic? Unless of course, they win.... then they get to write history.......

[Ghogiel]

Basically..I think that is so, well not really, still disagree with them but still support and remain loyal to the thing as a whole I suppose. The primary definition of "country" is "a nation with it's own government, occupying a territory."

 

So unless you are talking about the trees and land itself... or just describing rural areas.. but really can you even be patriotic to those?

 

You could say, patriotism is "having or expressing love, loyalty, or enthusiasm and vigorous support for one's nation, government and territory"

 

If you ask me it is a word that is ripe to be used to promote the status quo.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Ghogiel