[WIP] Mod Picker

[matortheeternal]

Thread updated. Check out the r/skyrimmods Progress Report 4 for more information on our recent progress.

[Brigand231]

Would it not be ultimately more effective to advocate and encourage the aforementioned silent masses to learn and use tools like Xedit so they can personally maintain their own load orders?

 

That would result in a stronger and self-enabled modding community. Instead of making tools for the "drooling masses", why not focus on educating them instead of enabling them?

 

The whole reason (granted, this is my opinion based on observation) we get load orders based on guides is because it is too easy for a mod user to cry for help and get a response from someone who feeds on endorsements, reputation, upvotes, whatever instead of being taught how to fix it themself.

 

I'm all for users being made aware of all the possibilities at their disposal, but I believe that must also come with the education of how to best take advantage of these tools and possibilities. Otherwise, we're simply tossing out good pearls after bad before swine. Let's get them out of the mud before we make the pens bigger and deeper.

[RoyBatterian]

I can already tell you what mator is going to say to this.

 

"I know more than anyone about xEdit, scripting and what it can and cannot do." Which translates to, My automated solutions are better and superior to anyone elses knowledge of the subject because I am self proclaimed know it all god of xEdit and modding.

[csbx]

Most automobile drivers don't know how to change a carburetor, or perhaps to even describe its purpose or, for some, even spell that word. They have better things to do and prefer to pay someone who is a dedicated specialist in that field to take care of all that. Now I agree, modding ain't that difficult, and the tools are all free and easy to acquire. But when I think about the hours I've spent just making things work, tweaking, troubleshooting, I totally understand why that would look silly to the masses. You and I and most of the other weirdos posting here are kind of obsessed with this stuff--you have to be kind of obsessed with it to learn the tools and then to do it well--meaning getting the result you want without breaking anything. I can understand why most may want to enjoy the benefits of modding without wanting to obsess about what gears are turning below.

 

 

Would it not be ultimately more effective to advocate and encourage the aforementioned silent masses to learn and use tools like Xedit so they can personally maintain their own load orders?

That would result in a stronger and self-enabled modding community. Instead of making tools for the "drooling masses", why not focus on educating them instead of enabling them?

The whole reason (granted, this is my opinion based on observation) we get load orders based on guides is because it is too easy for a mod user to cry for help and get a response from someone who feeds on endorsements, reputation, upvotes, whatever instead of being taught how to fix it themself.

I'm all for users being made aware of all the possibilities at their disposal, but I believe that must also come with the education of how to best take advantage of these tools and possibilities. Otherwise, we're simply tossing out good pearls after bad before swine. Let's get them out of the mud before we make the pens bigger and deeper.

Edited April 26, 2016 by csbx

[lofgren]

Would it not be ultimately more effective to advocate and encourage the aforementioned silent masses to learn and use tools like Xedit so they can personally maintain their own load orders?

 

That would result in a stronger and self-enabled modding community. Instead of making tools for the "drooling masses", why not focus on educating them instead of enabling them?

 

The whole reason (granted, this is my opinion based on observation) we get load orders based on guides is because it is too easy for a mod user to cry for help and get a response from someone who feeds on endorsements, reputation, upvotes, whatever instead of being taught how to fix it themself.

 

I'm all for users being made aware of all the possibilities at their disposal, but I believe that must also come with the education of how to best take advantage of these tools and possibilities. Otherwise, we're simply tossing out good pearls after bad before swine. Let's get them out of the mud before we make the pens bigger and deeper.

 

Unless you can debug your smartphone before you make a call, rebuild the engine on your car before you start driving, and install a well pump before you get a drink of water, this is a stupid line of discussion. Yes, obviously, the world would be a better place if everybody automatically knew how to do everything. As this is a frankly ridiculous vision of the world, smart people have been continually formulating and automating processes in order to distribute the required knowledge-base amongst the population since around the time humans first mastered fire. Did you learn how to build and light a cooking fire without any tools before you were allowed to eat hot food? No? Then your question is silly.

 

The question you are really asking is, "Should people who don't know how to use xEdit be able to use mods?" The answer should be obvious to everybody. Yes, clearly, knowing how to use xEdit should not be the bar to entry in order to use mods.

[Brigand231]

Wow, I've never seen my thoughts and words taken so far out of context. I appreciate what you say, csbx, in that there are some things that are beyond folks that they need to employ the services of others. I have not contested that. I simply suggested that it seemed easier to me to teach someone to use modding tools in order to address their own issues. It might be more work initially, but would require less of a time investment in the long run over several mods. In my opinion, this would be a greater net benefit to the user and to the modding community. These users could also educate others in a ripple or domino illustration. Ultimately, it is my belief that this would produce more modders.

 

I believe this because this is how I learned to mod. I was enjoying a mod, but I wanted to see a different value used for something. I asked the mod author to make the change, and instead they taught me to edit values myself. Had they simply spoonfed me a custom version, I would have stopped there. Instead, I tweaked other values for different results to make variations on that mod and began to apply the knowledge to other mods that I used. The more I did it, the more I saw how things worked together. It was not a huge stretch to see how graphic assets like textures and models worked similarly, and they could be edited or swapped for others. I got help learning texture and model editing tools and played with those to play with and share.

 

It was so exciting to be able to do these things and tell others how to do them. From that came text and video tutorials. I'm not going to claim that anything I've made or contributed has had a huge impact anywhere, but I can say with certainty that all it took was one modder to say "If this is what you want, this is how to make it happen" instead of "Ok, here you go" to make a positive impact on the modding community. My suggestion was simply that this be applied to helping mod users with load orders instead of just handing out answers.

 

Most automobile drivers will never directly encounter a carburetor or need to know what one is and it's easy enough to get water from a faucet by turning it on. What we are discussing is modifications of already working systems. If an automobile driver wants their car modified, they absolutely will need to learn or beg/pay someone to do work on their behalf. If someone wants different sink hardware or a new kitchen counter, again they are modding en existing, working system and should absolutely seek help before doing so. Once you modify something beyond its original intended use you absolutely better know what you're doing and accept the consequences of your actions. It's not rocket science, it's modding.

 

Should people who don't know how to tune an engine be able to drive a car? Sure. You're mixing apples and oranges. I am suggesting that simply because someone does not know how to use something they are incapable of learning to use it if challenged to try it.

 

Edit: accidental double negative and omitted word corrected.

[simtam]

I find it unlikely that it will obsolete TES5Edit for the mod users. Cars might get assembled faster and safer, but they will be still started with a hand-crank.

[Druuler]

 

I'm sorry there was a misunderstanding, the mod would still be downloaded from the Nexus. We would not be hosting the mod files on our site in any way, the only thing we would be doing is essentially opening a "hyperlink" on the user's computer which starts the download for them.

Should this feature be implemented, this will allow the downloading of a mod without actually going to the site the mod is hosted on (eg. Nexus or LL). Is my understanding correct?

[Freso]

Should this feature be implemented, this will allow the downloading of a mod without actually going to the site the mod is hosted on (eg. Nexus or LL). Is my understanding correct?

That was the plan, but they have said a few times now that they have scrapped this feature, so it will not be implemented. They will provide links to the mod's page on Lover's Lab, Steam Workshop, and Nexus Mods and a user will have to find the download there by themselves.

[HeyYou]

Some folks, just like drivers.... don't have the time, or inclination, to learn what all is going on under the hood. Due to time constraints, or other concerns, they just want to be able to play. Now, mod-picker as a service, does have some potential for those folks. They can pick a load list, and be reasonably assured of compatibility among their chosen mods. Using an automated system is never perfect though..... it can get close, and I don't know if they are going to do anything about a 'bashed patch'.... That remains to be seen. If it even gets off the ground, given some of the issues they are having elsewhere.