Don't like freedom?

[marharth]

if someone wants to collect all the material toys available and if that make them happy so be it.

 

I may be misunderstanding what your saying. Are you saying that its fine for a single person or group to control almost all the wealth?

 

No, I think he is saying that if someone wants to collect possessions, and they think that makes them happy, and they can afford it, then it doesn't bother him that they do it, which is hardly the same thing as what YOU are saying. And that it is no business of the state to redistribute that wealth and say "Thou shalt not", nor should they feel the need to give away all that they have. Rampant consumerism does have its problems and causes a lot of debt for sure, but the fact is that if there was no consumerism there would be even fewer jobs. One sector that IS booming in Britain is the luxury sector, well more fools them I say to the rich if they want to buy a handbag for £10,000, but let them do it if they want to.

 

HeyYou - just because there is an explosion in welfare, it does not follow that there is not still a very pissed off middle class still out there. I should know, I work on a welfare to work programme and live in the UK where our welfare system is famously full of largesse. Many is the time when I find a job for a customer which is actually paying more than I earn myself, only for them to say "Boohoo no, I can't live on that..." me - "Whaddya mean, I have to..." them - "Well you are a big time sucka..." me "no I have a work ethic" them "don't use that language to me or I'll report you..."

 

In Britain as in the USA, it's all the same. Those of us in the pissed off middle class and, I might say, the hard working working class who should be included here, bear the brunt of the increase in inflation and taxes, because we are deemed too rich for tax credits or any assistance, and yet we are not rich enough to pay accountants and lawyers to minimise our tax exposure or to domicile ourselves in a tax haven. Just because we merely grumble softly and then get back to out workstations/digging holes/driving trucks, etc etc, doesn't mean that the let's call them "Exasperated Workers" aren't there.

Well he said "All the material toys available."

 

Guess it was a misunderstanding then.

[SilverDNA]

Every German has the freedom, to obey laws, which he has never consented to; he may admire the majesty of the Basic Law, whose validity he has never legitimized; he is free, to worship Politicians, that no citizen has ever voted for, and lush to provide - with his tax money, about their use he was never interviewed. Total government and politics are in a state, of which only professional optimists or hypocrites can claim, it had emerged from the will of the citizens.

"The system. The machinations of power"

Hans Herbert von Arnim

(constitutional rights activists)

2001

 

If you can insert for German your nationality.... and think the shoe fits at least in 2 spots.. then it is already too late do make up your mind because corruption is already there and your freedom is only the lips services of ... (Please insert missing words here you find most fitting to the sentence your self)!

tick tack....

 

Oh on Germany nothing new it is constantly degenerating at a rate of 20 to 40 major serious constitutional violations of the parties and Politicians behind the back of the citizens per anno. And this luxury the Germany citizen pays with about 7 to 10 billions € per anno additional to believe in representative democracy and that the citizens are the only sovereign in a democracy. (regardless what "democracy" each individual has freedom to believes in)

Can they have the right to twist the laws to their own end of it all or is this all a conspirational lie?

tick tack....

 

Now if you ask the in the politest manner you can imagine a high ranking politician the things that he doesn't want to see and isn't prepared for in a open public debate what kind answers do you usually get from those?

A word forms in my mind of those politicians ... Ha yes Figureheads!

Who rules those figureheads? How they rule over them, why and by what means corruption that are on a basic superficial look are legit?

tick tack....

Edited June 20, 2011 by SilverDNA

[DeTomaso]

Well I hate to be the unabashed capitalist here but if DeTomaso wants to give away all his worldly goods and retreat back to the monastery and contemplate his navel ..fine, just don't expect a mad rush to join you in your self proclaimed socially moralist elitist haven. Can you be more condescending? The beauty of America is that anyone and everyone can pick their own path and pursue it, if someone wants to collect all the material toys available and if that make them happy so be it. There is an old New England saying "Your freedom stops where mine begins"and as long as someone abides by that I could care less what they do or collect to find contentment in life.

 

One has to know first what one is doing. This is not the case in the USA, otherwise we'd not see such masses of insolvent folk, eh?

And be more careful what you are saying about me. Social compensation is not in your vocabulary, I see it. and not only this. Fortunately I'm rich enough to survive the upcoming US financial crisis in good health. Hope that goes for you and your brothers-in arms too.

[Aurielius]

@HeyYou

OK we run our own S Corp so are self employed. Is it tough out there?..yes Has our business suffered?..yes. Are we still in operation..yes. However all my neighbors are still employed and yes there have been cuts in personal in the companies that they work for that I am aware of. But no, there is no mass rush to the welfare roles where I reside and I doubt that I am unique in that respect.

 

@Ginnyfizz

Thank you. You did understand the point I was making without obfuscating it. As a side note, within a mile or two of me there are seven ridiculous golf / country clubs and since I share a watering hole that stockbrokers and caddies both frequent. I am glad that the well off still want to employ people to sustain their passions, that I don't share it does not matter. The caddies and grounds keepers that I drink with like being employed and hold no resentment to the swells sitting next to them. There is no class divide there and they both get something out of the deal.

 

@Marharth

Nice try no deal.

[marharth]

@HeyYou

OK we run our own S Corp so are self employed. Is it tough out there?..yes Has our business suffered?..yes. Are we still in operation..yes. However all my neighbors are still employed and yes there have been cuts in personal in the companies that they work for that I am aware of. But no, there is no mass rush to the welfare roles where I reside and I doubt that I am unique in that respect.

 

@Ginnyfizz

Thank you. You did understand the point I was making without obfuscating it. As a side note, within a mile or two of me there are seven ridiculous golf / country clubs and since I share a watering hole that stockbrokers and caddies both frequent. I am glad that the well off still want to employ people to sustain their passions, that I don't share it does not matter. The caddies and grounds keepers that I drink with like being employed and hold no resentment to the swells sitting next to them. There is no class divide there and they both get something out of the deal.

 

@Marharth

Nice try no deal.

Don't really know what I was "trying" :whistling:

 

Using your neighbors as a example of how the middle class is fine is not the best idea. Local areas can be fine for now, on a national level its entirely different.

 

Also it seems a bit strange that all the conservatives that hate wealth redistribution are glad to give out huge tax cuts to certain groups.

[Aurielius]

Don't really know what I was "trying" :whistling:

Using your neighbors as a example of how the middle class is fine is not the best idea. Local areas can be fine for now, on a national level its entirely different.

Also it seems a bit strange that all the conservatives that hate wealth redistribution are glad to give out huge tax cuts to certain groups.

 

We have played out this scenario before... tit for tat for months, I'll pass on illuminating you.

"Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error".--Marcus Tullius Cicero

[ginnyfizz]

Well I hate to be the unabashed capitalist here but if DeTomaso wants to give away all his worldly goods and retreat back to the monastery and contemplate his navel ..fine, just don't expect a mad rush to join you in your self proclaimed socially moralist elitist haven. Can you be more condescending? The beauty of America is that anyone and everyone can pick their own path and pursue it, if someone wants to collect all the material toys available and if that make them happy so be it. There is an old New England saying "Your freedom stops where mine begins"and as long as someone abides by that I could care less what they do or collect to find contentment in life.

 

One has to know first what one is doing. This is not the case in the USA, otherwise we'd not see such masses of insolvent folk, eh?

And be more careful what you are saying about me. Social compensation is not in your vocabulary, I see it. and not only this. Fortunately I'm rich enough to survive the upcoming US financial crisis in good health. Hope that goes for you and your brothers-in arms too.

 

Yes, but are you quite sure you are rich enough to survive the upcoming Euro-zone crisis? As you live in an EU country that is part of the Euro-zone, I would suggest taking a look what is going on there before being condescending about the USA. Let me see, what was it that precipitated the Euro-zone crisis? Ah yes, lavish public spending and living beyond ones means, and massive state meddling, par for the course with Socialist countries.

[Aurielius]

One has to know first what one is doing. This is not the case in the USA, otherwise we'd not see such masses of insolvent folk, eh?

And be more careful what you are saying about me. Social compensation is not in your vocabulary, I see it. and not only this. Fortunately I'm rich enough to survive the upcoming US financial crisis in good health. Hope that goes for you and your brothers-in arms too.

 

Nemo me impune lacessit? Ut sementem feceris, ita metes.

(No one attacks me with impunity? You reap what you sow.)

Edited June 20, 2011 by Aurielius

[grannywils]

To Aurielius...Don't think I said that the middle class was gone. Think I said that it was rapidly disappearing. See following link from one of "your" guys http://www.lewrockwell.com/wenzel/wenzel21.1.html

Nor was I trying to suggest that anyone should take away our toys. I merely suggested that if we found ourselves in dire straits, maybe we could look to ourselves, rather than trying to blame it on someone else. Has it ever occurred to any of us that not everything is someone else's fault every single time? I was merely attempting to interpret someone else's post and add my spin to it.

 

As you well know, I have never believed that the government or anyone else is responsible for my life or my freedom. I do however recognize that in difficult times there may be ways that we can participate in our own recovery, rather than shrieking along with the masses to expect someone else to "fix it". That was the point I was trying to make. Apparently you grossly misunderstood. I apologize if I was unclear.

 

 

[Aurielius]

To Aurielius...Don't think I said that the middle class was gone. Think I said that it was rapidly disappearing. See following link from one of "your" guys http://www.lewrockwell.com/wenzel/wenzel21.1.html

Nor was I trying to suggest that anyone should take away our toys. I merely suggested that if we found ourselves in dire straits, maybe we could look to ourselves, rather than trying to blame it on someone else. Has it ever occurred to any of us that not everything is someone else's fault every single time? I was merely attempting to interpret someone else's post and add my spin to it.

 

As you well know, I have never believed that the government or anyone else is responsible for my life or my freedom. I do however recognize that in difficult times there may be ways that we can participate in our own recovery, rather than shrieking along with the masses to expect someone else to "fix it". That was the point I was trying to make. Apparently you grossly misunderstood. I apologize if I was unclear.

Evidently I was too to fast on the trigger, the fault in mis perception is mine. I am quite clear as to your intent now.