Don't like freedom?

[Aurielius]

I guess that theoretically Obama could be impeached, I suppose we can dream.

 

Oh how I would love to see that day. But, like you said, we can dream.

Elections are quicker and in the long run more satisfying victories.

[grannywils]

I guess that theoretically Obama could be impeached, I suppose we can dream.

 

Oh how I would love to see that day. But, like you said, we can dream.

Elections are quicker and in the long run more satisfying victories.

 

 

Not to mention, more believable ones.

[Aurielius]

I guess that theoretically Obama could be impeached, I suppose we can dream.

 

Oh how I would love to see that day. But, like you said, we can dream.

Elections are quicker and in the long run more satisfying victories.

Not to mention, more believable ones.

But if the next election turns out like the last one I may have a change of heart :whistling:

[grannywils]

I guess that theoretically Obama could be impeached, I suppose we can dream.

 

Oh how I would love to see that day. But, like you said, we can dream.

Elections are quicker and in the long run more satisfying victories.

 

So you have mentioned...

[ginnyfizz]

I guess that theoretically Obama could be impeached, I suppose we can dream.

 

Oh how I would love to see that day. But, like you said, we can dream.

Elections are quicker and in the long run more satisfying victories.

 

 

Not to mention, more believable ones.

 

If you will note, I did actually use the word THEORETICAL. There is provision for a US President to be impeached (just as there is for a Prime Minister over here.) I did not suggest it was likely to happen.

 

I suspect that you are right, Aurelius, although "Obama in the slammer" has a certain catchiness about it.

[grannywils]

I was thinking about freedom and a national view towards a political solution to same and I came across some writings by a man named Friedrich List. They are quite fascintating, and I thought many of you might enjoy reading them. I am going to post two links here, as they are just too long to copy outright. Following are the links: http://www.cooper.edu/humanities/classes/coreclasses/hss3/f_list.html and

http://www.cooper.edu/humanities/classes/coreclasses/hss3/f_list.html

 

His economic beliefs seemed to stem primarily from those of Alexander Hamilton and also Adam Smith. I'm not sure that I agree with everygthing that he had to say, but he had some interesting philosophy's in terms of learning from the mistakes made by other nations which I think would possibly serve us well.

 

It is quite a bit of reading, but this is quite an important topic, and has been pointed out, all views are of interest. So, those of you who would like to read what he has to say, please feel free to follow the above links.

[ginnyfizz]

Oh wow. He sounds just like the present day EU, especially with his attitude to Britain. I love how he suggests it is legitimate for everyone to impose duties and tariffs and import restrictions...except Britain. Selective freedom indeed. I bet he would be chortling his little head off now at the fact that we no longer have the freedom to restrict imports of particularly farmed products/foodstuffs in which Britain could be self sufficient, whilst our farmers are going bust, meanwhile the EU farmers who are milking the subsidies feel FREE to have riots and torch British imports (if they are sheep, sometimes without slaughtering them first - French farmers, you know who you are....).

 

So in the context of the modern day, he is quite wrong. The giving up of our ability to have any freedom to control imports sent British farming and textiles right up the creek without a paddle.

[grannywils]

Am a bit confused by your response, seriously. One quick question, do you have any news articles or anything reguarding those recent riots and the torching of those British imports (like sheep, etc.), because I have not heard about it, and want to read up on it.

 

But am confused, because have been reading the following: French farmers are experiencing torrential rains and flooding which is decimating their crops just now see following link http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90853/7410544.html. What exactly have they done to British imports?

 

Also, I read this article where limits are being set on export bans due to the "plague" of rising food prices. See following link http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-23/g-20-ministers-agree-to-limit-crop-export-bans-start-agriculture-database.html

 

Found following article in NY Times regarding aid provided by EU to farmers suffering from drought conditions:

 

"PARIS — Suffering from a record-shattering drought, European nations started preparing emergency plans this week to conserve water and provide millions of euros in aid to farmers, including the deployment of soldiers to deliver hay for cattle grazing on sun-baked soil.

 

On Thursday, President Nicolas Sarkozy toured a cattle farm in western France to announce an aid package and the service of soldiers and national trains to deliver fodder for livestock farmers. They are comparing the warm temperatures to the heat wave in the summer of 2003, when more than 10,000 people died in Europe.

 

The aid, which officials said could reach €1 billion, or more than $1.4 billion, also includes a year deferment on paying back government farm loans, a land-tax exemption, and the development of a five-year plan to improve water reserves and management.

 

“It is essentially a cash flow problem,” Mr. Sarkozy said in his tour of a farm in Montemboeuf. “We will find you room to maneuver.”

 

Farmers are facing difficult conditions. Before rainstorms last week, the period from March to May in France was the driest in the previous 50 years and the warmest since 1900, according to Météo France, the public weather service.

 

Records have also fallen in England, where the spring has been the driest since 1910 and the warmest since 1659. In Germany, the weather service said the drought was the worst since the nation started measuring rain in 1893.

 

Friedrich-Wilhelm Gerstengarbe, a scientist and assistant director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, said he considered global warming a factor in a changing pattern of extreme weather conditions of drought, storms, and floods.

 

“The stable climate we had for 100 years before is now changing to an unstable one,” he said. “The question is, what kind of plans will nations use in the next decade if droughts increase?”

 

This year’s drought is already starting to have a cascading effect, from a 13 percent decline in the French wheat crop that could lead to an extra five cents for a daily baguette to the early slaughter of cattle because parched grazing lands are brown with dead grass.

 

A plunge in the rapeseed harvest in Germany, which produces about a quarter of the Europe Union’s crop, is expected to depress biodiesel production.

 

In some parts of the Netherlands, the river levels have fallen to a 90-year low and dikes are being monitored for risks of drying out and cracking.

 

Wheat and barley are wilting in England, which will have an effect on beer production.

 

A few industries have remained immune to the drought. Salt harvesters in Guérande, in western France, have gathered the salt almost two months earlier then usual because of the dry conditions.

 

The dearth of rain has not affected the French wine industry so far. The deep roots of grave vines extend meters into the ground, tapping water reserves longer then other crops. In Burgundy and Bordeaux, for example, grape development is about three weeks ahead of schedule because of warm weather, according to regional trade associations.

 

“We have no worries about the weather, at least for the moment,” said Eve Gueydon, who heads technical communications at the Bureau Interprofessionnel des Vins de Bourgogne, the trade association for Burgundy wines. “Other dry years have produced great vintages.”

 

But for other farmers, like Ralf Schaab, who runs Hof Erbenheim, a fruit and vegetable farm in Germany, the soil remains parched even after some rain fell in early June.

 

“Normally, we have no artificial irrigation because we have very good soil that can store a lot of water,” Mr. Schaab said. “So it’s not such a big problem if it does not rain for four to six weeks. But eventually good soil reaches its limits and that exactly was the case after a three-month dry spell.”

 

In Europe’s capitals, the authorities are considering conservation and relief measures, in particular for livestock producers. The payment of cattle subsidies to farmers will be advanced to October from December, said Roger Waite, a spokesman for the European Commission. He said a working group of the beef industry had been formed to develop relief measures this summer.

 

“From what we’ve seen, the lack of rainfall is most significant in the Netherlands, Belgium, France and areas of Spain, Germany and England,” Mr. Waite said. “It varies from crop to crop. Above all, the livestock will be the worst hit, especially cattle because of the cost of feed. The trouble is that if grass doesn’t grow, the farmer has to provide extra feed and they are hit with an unexpected cost.”

 

In England, farmers, government officials and utility companies plan to meet this week to evaluate the drought’s impact on southern and eastern England. Caroline Spelman, the environment secretary, has commissioned a report on the effect on food production and water and power supplies.

 

France has also set up a monitoring committee for its energy industry, as the authorities are concerned about the impact on electricity supplies and the control of river flows. France is home to more than 50 nuclear power plants, which generate most of its electricity and use river water to cool their systems.

 

The Energy Ministry has insisted that the drought does not present a safety problem. But critics recall that during the hot summer in 2003, low river waters forced the government to turn off several nuclear plants.

 

Eric Pfanner contributed from Paris, and Stefan Pauly from Berlin.

 

From my perspective it sounds as though Great Britain and most other countries in EU are benefitting substantially from their membership in the EU. I'm not getting the idea that they are bearing an awful burden."

 

But I could of course be mistaken, and I apologize if I am.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JimboUK]

@grannywils a slightly aged link but this what French farmers are capable of.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/17/world/french-protest-of-sheep-imports-turns-ugly.html

[Kendo 2]

Here’s a short math quiz:

 

Take the total of US National Debt from this page:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

Divide that by 1 million. Divide the new sum by 86,400.

 

That is the number of days it would take for the United States to pay off the debt at a rate of 1 million dollars per second, not counting any newly acquired debt.

 

Obama, Biden, Pelosi, and almost every other Democrat in Washington want to TAX their way out of our debt and like all Democrats, they THINK they know what is best for this country and are the intellectual elite. They think Tea Party members and Republicans are just ignorant rednecks. Well, this redneck stayed awake in math class.

 

When I did this yesterday it would take 120 days, at 1 million dollars per second to pay off the existing debt.

 

And who says Liberals don’t believe in freedom? Shame on you! :woot: