Don't like freedom?

[Sync182]

Hate crimes...?

 

Let me tell you about the "freedoms" I have in this country - this civilised, Western country I live in.

 

I have the freedom to obey the law. If I break the law, I will go to prison. In prison, I will likely be better treated than I am outside of it: free internet, free tv viewing, free gym membership, free room & board, three square meals a day. However, I also know that I won't be in prison for long, because I will have my faux-freedom returned to me with less than half of my sentence served because I've convinced the prison system that I've been a Good Boy.

 

I have the freedom to expect others to obey the law. However, some choose not to, and they deliberately erode the freedoms of law-abiding citizens like myself by defying my right to live in peace, then threatening to sue me and/or charge me with assault if I defend my freedoms.

 

I have the freedom to enjoy time with my son, and the freedom to expect that he will grow up unharmed. However, some choose to act in a manner that is threatening and dangerous, such that my freedoms are eroded and my time spent making sure my son is unharmed, when I shouldn't have to spend my every waking moment looking out for & wondering about his safety.

 

I have the freedom to expect that people who come to this country to live might actually spend even a little time learning the official language and making even half an effort to acclimate and become part of mainstream society. Some choose not to, however...and this "free" country lets them, forcing the rest of us to deal with them on their terms in our country!

 

In this modern, civilised, cultured society I live in, my freedoms don't fully exist because of others who think that they have the freedom to take away my own and then act accordingly.

 

Yet these are freedoms given to me by the very governments that are supposed to look out for our freedoms.

 

Hate crimes...? A joke...? I'm sorry you feel that way, SilverDNA.

 

But calling someone else's opinion a "joke you don't understand" simply because it differs to your own is not the right way to go about a debate.

 

Are we free? Or is our freedom an illusion, rooted in the notion that we are merely not as subjugated and oppressed as others might be?

 

Now answer my question: What is Freedom?

[DeadMansFist849]

"Hate crimes" aren't what you think, by the way.

 

Thinking poorly of someone or saying stupid stuff is not a hate crime.

 

A hate crime would have to involve deliberately physically hurting, threatening or harrassing somebody with the motivation of hate based on race, sex, gender identity, orientation, religion or the perception thereof. Example: chavs beat a random woman half to death because they think she is transgender. That's a hate crime.

 

Not a hate crime: going on the internet spouting stupid stuff like "I think people from (insert currently distrusted nation here) are all evil communists."

[SilverDNA]

Hate crimes...?

 

Let me tell you about the "freedoms" I have in this country - this civilised, Western country I live in.

 

I have the freedom to obey the law. If I break the law, I will go to prison. In prison, I will likely be better treated than I am outside of it: free internet, free tv viewing, free gym membership, free room & board, three square meals a day. However, I also know that I won't be in prison for long, because I will have my faux-freedom returned to me with less than half of my sentence served because I've convinced the prison system that I've been a Good Boy.

 

I have the freedom to expect others to obey the law. However, some choose not to, and they deliberately erode the freedoms of law-abiding citizens like myself by defying my right to live in peace, then threatening to sue me and/or charge me with assault if I defend my freedoms.

 

I have the freedom to enjoy time with my son, and the freedom to expect that he will grow up unharmed. However, some choose to act in a manner that is threatening and dangerous, such that my freedoms are eroded and my time spent making sure my son is unharmed, when I shouldn't have to spend my every waking moment looking out for & wondering about his safety.

 

I have the freedom to expect that people who come to this country to live might actually spend even a little time learning the official language and making even half an effort to acclimate and become part of mainstream society. Some choose not to, however...and this "free" country lets them, forcing the rest of us to deal with them on their terms in our country!

 

In this modern, civilised, cultured society I live in, my freedoms don't fully exist because of others who think that they have the freedom to take away my own and then act accordingly.

 

Yet these are freedoms given to me by the very governments that are supposed to look out for our freedoms.

 

Hate crimes...? A joke...? I'm sorry you feel that way, SilverDNA.

Simply putting me in the side of the hate criminals by assuming all reader only read the last post in the topic. An in turning my own words so around in my mouth isn't going to help it is narrowing down freedom of speech by simply not admitting that your former post wasn't very well clarified on the subject. That's Why i needed to distance me from your post as far as possible. Your misinterpretation on my own words on purposes showed this exactly that this is about seeing the unseen as well as misusing your own freedom of interpretation to put words into my mouth that I didn't said doubles this effect.

 

But calling someone else's opinion a "joke you don't understand" simply because it differs to your own is not the right way to go about a debate.

Humour is in the eye of the beholder and the phrase "a Joke i don't understand" is about the reference that you needed to clarify that phrase of your former post "Many a true word said in jest, perhaps...?" on the Orwell quote above with the simple statement on pushing away the debate into another direction because my point of hate crimes and the measuring in freedom is still a valuable add to the debate ...

 

Are we free? Or is our freedom an illusion, rooted in the notion that we are merely not as subjugated and oppressed as others might be?

 

Now answer my question: What is Freedom?

I already answered this ...

[DeadMansFist849]

It strikes me as awfully funny that the first people to say "Disagree with me? You hate freedom (or America, they use the words interchangeably) then!" are also the first to campaign for rigid social controls against other people. See: Republican slogans against contraception, abortion and LGBT rights.

 

I know that lot are not representative of every neoconservative person. It's just that they should not be saying other people "hate freedom" when they themselves campaign for social controls designed to bring back and preserve the 1950s morality. I think they should be truthful and just openly announce their worship of the past, and desire to have freedom for businesses, but not ordinary people, especially if those ordinary people don't agree with them.

[ub3rman123]

I like how people see seatbelt laws as leading straight to a Demolition Man-like dystopia.

 

 

Do people think that way? I always thought things like seatbelt laws are for the idiots who insist on not wearing them and then get thrown through a windshield and put blood all over my nice front porch.

[HeyYou]

I like how people see seatbelt laws as leading straight to a Demolition Man-like dystopia.

 

 

Do people think that way? I always thought things like seatbelt laws are for the idiots who insist on not wearing them and then get thrown through a windshield and put blood all over my nice front porch.

 

I see that as darwinian selection. If you don't wanna use the safety systems present, try not to act surprised when you get badly hurt/killed in an accident.

[ub3rman123]

I like how people see seatbelt laws as leading straight to a Demolition Man-like dystopia.

 

 

Do people think that way? I always thought things like seatbelt laws are for the idiots who insist on not wearing them and then get thrown through a windshield and put blood all over my nice front porch.

 

I see that as darwinian selection. If you don't wanna use the safety systems present, try not to act surprised when you get badly hurt/killed in an accident.

 

And then their brother sues because you put a concrete lining in front of your house which he crashed on. I don't mind idiots getting themselves killed, but I hate it when it has to impinge on me.

[HeyYou]

I like how people see seatbelt laws as leading straight to a Demolition Man-like dystopia.

 

 

Do people think that way? I always thought things like seatbelt laws are for the idiots who insist on not wearing them and then get thrown through a windshield and put blood all over my nice front porch.

 

I see that as darwinian selection. If you don't wanna use the safety systems present, try not to act surprised when you get badly hurt/killed in an accident.

 

And then their brother sues because you put a concrete lining in front of your house which he crashed on. I don't mind idiots getting themselves killed, but I hate it when it has to impinge on me.

 

Welcome to the age of irresponsibility, where no one is actually responsible for their own actions. It is always someone else's fault...... be it peer/societal pressure, trouble upbringing, or environment....... The ultimate freedom. You can do whatever you want, and then claim 'it wasn't my fault!"

 

Sadly, a fair percentage of folks get away with this, and profit from it.

[ub3rman123]

There you have it. Want to improve America and get more freedom? Figure out how to fix the idiot problem instead of blaming the lawmakers.

[csgators]

So all judges and lawyers are stupid? It's not like these people can sue and win on their own.