Bill S. 978

[kvnchrist]

Actually a lot of companies love to swing the sue hammer at times just to deal with compitition with each other and with small moding groups. Microsoft and Bungie brought a Cease and Disist order with the thread of suing a moding group which created their own mesh, sounds and textures for a C&C Generals mod that brought Halo to the real time Strategy relm. A few months after the order Bungie announce it is working on a Halo RTS game which later got known as Halo: Wars which turned into a nasty flop. However the people who got to test the beta of the C&C Generals mod where prasing it as a great Total Conversion for Generals. Hasbro took the makers of the GI Joe mod for C&C Renegade because they didn't cease their work which was totally their own work besides the name of the characters & equipment, Hasbro also slapped the GI Joe Ghost Recon Mod team with a cease and disist order as well with threat to sue. As for an example between companies sueing over little stuff look at the court case Macross vs Steam and Tinker (The team working on the New Mechwarrior: Reboot) they sueing because the Warhammer Battlemech which appeared in the Teaser Trailer looks to much like one of their design. So don't say the companies are not sue happy because that is just wishful thinking.

 

 

You are also talking about reputable dealers, not mom and pop people like I was speaking about. There is a difference between someone potentially making money off something that carrys the likeness of a copyrighted material and someone just popping together a vid for show.

 

What I can't really understand is why are we defending people doing nefarious things with the property of others. Don't people have the right to defend their property? If not, why should they even consider putting forth the effort to create anything at all.

[marharth]

Actually a lot of companies love to swing the sue hammer at times just to deal with compitition with each other and with small moding groups. Microsoft and Bungie brought a Cease and Disist order with the thread of suing a moding group which created their own mesh, sounds and textures for a C&C Generals mod that brought Halo to the real time Strategy relm. A few months after the order Bungie announce it is working on a Halo RTS game which later got known as Halo: Wars which turned into a nasty flop. However the people who got to test the beta of the C&C Generals mod where prasing it as a great Total Conversion for Generals. Hasbro took the makers of the GI Joe mod for C&C Renegade because they didn't cease their work which was totally their own work besides the name of the characters & equipment, Hasbro also slapped the GI Joe Ghost Recon Mod team with a cease and disist order as well with threat to sue. As for an example between companies sueing over little stuff look at the court case Macross vs Steam and Tinker (The team working on the New Mechwarrior: Reboot) they sueing because the Warhammer Battlemech which appeared in the Teaser Trailer looks to much like one of their design. So don't say the companies are not sue happy because that is just wishful thinking.

 

 

You are also talking about reputable dealers, not mom and pop people like I was speaking about. There is a difference between someone potentially making money off something that carrys the likeness of a copyrighted material and someone just popping together a vid for show.

 

What I can't really understand is why are we defending people doing nefarious things with the property of others. Don't people have the right to defend their property? If not, why should they even consider putting forth the effort to create anything at all.

People do have the right to defend their property.

 

The game companies oppose this bill and people buy games to play them. I still can't understand why you think this bill is fine. If they were losing profit they would support the bill.

[kvnchrist]

Actually a lot of companies love to swing the sue hammer at times just to deal with compitition with each other and with small moding groups. Microsoft and Bungie brought a Cease and Disist order with the thread of suing a moding group which created their own mesh, sounds and textures for a C&C Generals mod that brought Halo to the real time Strategy relm. A few months after the order Bungie announce it is working on a Halo RTS game which later got known as Halo: Wars which turned into a nasty flop. However the people who got to test the beta of the C&C Generals mod where prasing it as a great Total Conversion for Generals. Hasbro took the makers of the GI Joe mod for C&C Renegade because they didn't cease their work which was totally their own work besides the name of the characters & equipment, Hasbro also slapped the GI Joe Ghost Recon Mod team with a cease and disist order as well with threat to sue. As for an example between companies sueing over little stuff look at the court case Macross vs Steam and Tinker (The team working on the New Mechwarrior: Reboot) they sueing because the Warhammer Battlemech which appeared in the Teaser Trailer looks to much like one of their design. So don't say the companies are not sue happy because that is just wishful thinking.

 

 

You are also talking about reputable dealers, not mom and pop people like I was speaking about. There is a difference between someone potentially making money off something that carrys the likeness of a copyrighted material and someone just popping together a vid for show.

 

What I can't really understand is why are we defending people doing nefarious things with the property of others. Don't people have the right to defend their property? If not, why should they even consider putting forth the effort to create anything at all.

People do have the right to defend their property.

 

The game companies oppose this bill and people buy games to play them. I still can't understand why you think this bill is fine. If they were losing profit they would support the bill.

 

 

I don't like thieves. Not in any fashion or form. Wither they wear a business suit, an evangelistic collar or a hackers smile. I couldn't care less about if I can benefit by their actions. Nothing is free and end the end people have to pay one way or the other. People who shoplift, cause the price of groceries to rise. People who steal from businesses cause the businesses to raise their prices. I'd rather cut out the masked middleman and purchase the original product from the original owner.

[HeyYou]

Actually a lot of companies love to swing the sue hammer at times just to deal with compitition with each other and with small moding groups. Microsoft and Bungie brought a Cease and Disist order with the thread of suing a moding group which created their own mesh, sounds and textures for a C&C Generals mod that brought Halo to the real time Strategy relm. A few months after the order Bungie announce it is working on a Halo RTS game which later got known as Halo: Wars which turned into a nasty flop. However the people who got to test the beta of the C&C Generals mod where prasing it as a great Total Conversion for Generals. Hasbro took the makers of the GI Joe mod for C&C Renegade because they didn't cease their work which was totally their own work besides the name of the characters & equipment, Hasbro also slapped the GI Joe Ghost Recon Mod team with a cease and disist order as well with threat to sue. As for an example between companies sueing over little stuff look at the court case Macross vs Steam and Tinker (The team working on the New Mechwarrior: Reboot) they sueing because the Warhammer Battlemech which appeared in the Teaser Trailer looks to much like one of their design. So don't say the companies are not sue happy because that is just wishful thinking.

 

 

You are also talking about reputable dealers, not mom and pop people like I was speaking about. There is a difference between someone potentially making money off something that carrys the likeness of a copyrighted material and someone just popping together a vid for show.

 

What I can't really understand is why are we defending people doing nefarious things with the property of others. Don't people have the right to defend their property? If not, why should they even consider putting forth the effort to create anything at all.

People do have the right to defend their property.

 

The game companies oppose this bill and people buy games to play them. I still can't understand why you think this bill is fine. If they were losing profit they would support the bill.

 

 

I don't like thieves. Not in any fashion or form. Wither they wear a business suit, an evangelistic collar or a hackers smile. I couldn't care less about if I can benefit by their actions. Nothing is free and end the end people have to pay one way or the other. People who shoplift, cause the price of groceries to rise. People who steal from businesses cause the businesses to raise their prices. I'd rather cut out the masked middleman and purchase the original product from the original owner.

 

And just how does this bill address that? Does it make anything that isn't taking money out of someones pocket now, any more illegal? How does posting gameplay footage as a walkthru, or whathaveyou, or even a demo of a mod..... qualify as piracy? Is the poster making money? Is the poster that uploads it taking money away from anyone? If this bill passes, the demo video for Reclaiming Sancre Tor becomes illegal. How does that make any sense at all??

[kvnchrist]

Actually a lot of companies love to swing the sue hammer at times just to deal with compitition with each other and with small moding groups. Microsoft and Bungie brought a Cease and Disist order with the thread of suing a moding group which created their own mesh, sounds and textures for a C&C Generals mod that brought Halo to the real time Strategy relm. A few months after the order Bungie announce it is working on a Halo RTS game which later got known as Halo: Wars which turned into a nasty flop. However the people who got to test the beta of the C&C Generals mod where prasing it as a great Total Conversion for Generals. Hasbro took the makers of the GI Joe mod for C&C Renegade because they didn't cease their work which was totally their own work besides the name of the characters & equipment, Hasbro also slapped the GI Joe Ghost Recon Mod team with a cease and disist order as well with threat to sue. As for an example between companies sueing over little stuff look at the court case Macross vs Steam and Tinker (The team working on the New Mechwarrior: Reboot) they sueing because the Warhammer Battlemech which appeared in the Teaser Trailer looks to much like one of their design. So don't say the companies are not sue happy because that is just wishful thinking.

 

 

You are also talking about reputable dealers, not mom and pop people like I was speaking about. There is a difference between someone potentially making money off something that carrys the likeness of a copyrighted material and someone just popping together a vid for show.

 

What I can't really understand is why are we defending people doing nefarious things with the property of others. Don't people have the right to defend their property? If not, why should they even consider putting forth the effort to create anything at all.

People do have the right to defend their property.

 

The game companies oppose this bill and people buy games to play them. I still can't understand why you think this bill is fine. If they were losing profit they would support the bill.

 

 

I don't like thieves. Not in any fashion or form. Wither they wear a business suit, an evangelistic collar or a hackers smile. I couldn't care less about if I can benefit by their actions. Nothing is free and end the end people have to pay one way or the other. People who shoplift, cause the price of groceries to rise. People who steal from businesses cause the businesses to raise their prices. I'd rather cut out the masked middleman and purchase the original product from the original owner.

 

And just how does this bill address that? Does it make anything that isn't taking money out of someones pocket now, any more illegal? How does posting gameplay footage as a walkthru, or whathaveyou, or even a demo of a mod..... qualify as piracy? Is the poster making money? Is the poster that uploads it taking money away from anyone? If this bill passes, the demo video for Reclaiming Sancre Tor becomes illegal. How does that make any sense at all??

 

 

It puts control back into the hands of those who own the product. If you want to do something with it, you ask first.

 

There are people who sell cheat guides that make money, both for them and for the owner. It doesn't side step anyone. I'm sorry. I'm old school. I'm not apart of this internet age where ethics are an option as long as someone can claim there are benefits to the small guy.

[marharth]

Actually a lot of companies love to swing the sue hammer at times just to deal with compitition with each other and with small moding groups. Microsoft and Bungie brought a Cease and Disist order with the thread of suing a moding group which created their own mesh, sounds and textures for a C&C Generals mod that brought Halo to the real time Strategy relm. A few months after the order Bungie announce it is working on a Halo RTS game which later got known as Halo: Wars which turned into a nasty flop. However the people who got to test the beta of the C&C Generals mod where prasing it as a great Total Conversion for Generals. Hasbro took the makers of the GI Joe mod for C&C Renegade because they didn't cease their work which was totally their own work besides the name of the characters & equipment, Hasbro also slapped the GI Joe Ghost Recon Mod team with a cease and disist order as well with threat to sue. As for an example between companies sueing over little stuff look at the court case Macross vs Steam and Tinker (The team working on the New Mechwarrior: Reboot) they sueing because the Warhammer Battlemech which appeared in the Teaser Trailer looks to much like one of their design. So don't say the companies are not sue happy because that is just wishful thinking.

 

 

You are also talking about reputable dealers, not mom and pop people like I was speaking about. There is a difference between someone potentially making money off something that carrys the likeness of a copyrighted material and someone just popping together a vid for show.

 

What I can't really understand is why are we defending people doing nefarious things with the property of others. Don't people have the right to defend their property? If not, why should they even consider putting forth the effort to create anything at all.

People do have the right to defend their property.

 

The game companies oppose this bill and people buy games to play them. I still can't understand why you think this bill is fine. If they were losing profit they would support the bill.

 

 

I don't like thieves. Not in any fashion or form. Wither they wear a business suit, an evangelistic collar or a hackers smile. I couldn't care less about if I can benefit by their actions. Nothing is free and end the end people have to pay one way or the other. People who shoplift, cause the price of groceries to rise. People who steal from businesses cause the businesses to raise their prices. I'd rather cut out the masked middleman and purchase the original product from the original owner.

 

And just how does this bill address that? Does it make anything that isn't taking money out of someones pocket now, any more illegal? How does posting gameplay footage as a walkthru, or whathaveyou, or even a demo of a mod..... qualify as piracy? Is the poster making money? Is the poster that uploads it taking money away from anyone? If this bill passes, the demo video for Reclaiming Sancre Tor becomes illegal. How does that make any sense at all??

 

 

It puts control back into the hands of those who own the product. If you want to do something with it, you ask first.

 

There are people who sell cheat guides that make money, both for them and for the owner. It doesn't side step anyone. I'm sorry. I'm old school. I'm not apart of this internet age where ethics are an option as long as someone can claim there are benefits to the small guy.

Well we shouldn't even be discussing gaming on this forum should we?

 

Lets go ask the companies before we start posting.

 

You seem to think that you should ask the creator to do ANYTHING even if it doesn't effect profit.

[kvnchrist]

Actually a lot of companies love to swing the sue hammer at times just to deal with compitition with each other and with small moding groups. Microsoft and Bungie brought a Cease and Disist order with the thread of suing a moding group which created their own mesh, sounds and textures for a C&C Generals mod that brought Halo to the real time Strategy relm. A few months after the order Bungie announce it is working on a Halo RTS game which later got known as Halo: Wars which turned into a nasty flop. However the people who got to test the beta of the C&C Generals mod where prasing it as a great Total Conversion for Generals. Hasbro took the makers of the GI Joe mod for C&C Renegade because they didn't cease their work which was totally their own work besides the name of the characters & equipment, Hasbro also slapped the GI Joe Ghost Recon Mod team with a cease and disist order as well with threat to sue. As for an example between companies sueing over little stuff look at the court case Macross vs Steam and Tinker (The team working on the New Mechwarrior: Reboot) they sueing because the Warhammer Battlemech which appeared in the Teaser Trailer looks to much like one of their design. So don't say the companies are not sue happy because that is just wishful thinking.

 

 

You are also talking about reputable dealers, not mom and pop people like I was speaking about. There is a difference between someone potentially making money off something that carrys the likeness of a copyrighted material and someone just popping together a vid for show.

 

What I can't really understand is why are we defending people doing nefarious things with the property of others. Don't people have the right to defend their property? If not, why should they even consider putting forth the effort to create anything at all.

People do have the right to defend their property.

 

The game companies oppose this bill and people buy games to play them. I still can't understand why you think this bill is fine. If they were losing profit they would support the bill.

 

 

I don't like thieves. Not in any fashion or form. Wither they wear a business suit, an evangelistic collar or a hackers smile. I couldn't care less about if I can benefit by their actions. Nothing is free and end the end people have to pay one way or the other. People who shoplift, cause the price of groceries to rise. People who steal from businesses cause the businesses to raise their prices. I'd rather cut out the masked middleman and purchase the original product from the original owner.

 

And just how does this bill address that? Does it make anything that isn't taking money out of someones pocket now, any more illegal? How does posting gameplay footage as a walkthru, or whathaveyou, or even a demo of a mod..... qualify as piracy? Is the poster making money? Is the poster that uploads it taking money away from anyone? If this bill passes, the demo video for Reclaiming Sancre Tor becomes illegal. How does that make any sense at all??

 

 

It puts control back into the hands of those who own the product. If you want to do something with it, you ask first.

 

There are people who sell cheat guides that make money, both for them and for the owner. It doesn't side step anyone. I'm sorry. I'm old school. I'm not apart of this internet age where ethics are an option as long as someone can claim there are benefits to the small guy.

Well we shouldn't even be discussing gaming on this forum should we?

 

Lets go ask the companies before we start posting.

 

You seem to think that you should ask the creator to do ANYTHING even if it doesn't effect profit.

 

 

It never fails to amuse me when people try to take things to the extremes when they get frustrated over debates.

[marharth]

Actually a lot of companies love to swing the sue hammer at times just to deal with compitition with each other and with small moding groups. Microsoft and Bungie brought a Cease and Disist order with the thread of suing a moding group which created their own mesh, sounds and textures for a C&C Generals mod that brought Halo to the real time Strategy relm. A few months after the order Bungie announce it is working on a Halo RTS game which later got known as Halo: Wars which turned into a nasty flop. However the people who got to test the beta of the C&C Generals mod where prasing it as a great Total Conversion for Generals. Hasbro took the makers of the GI Joe mod for C&C Renegade because they didn't cease their work which was totally their own work besides the name of the characters & equipment, Hasbro also slapped the GI Joe Ghost Recon Mod team with a cease and disist order as well with threat to sue. As for an example between companies sueing over little stuff look at the court case Macross vs Steam and Tinker (The team working on the New Mechwarrior: Reboot) they sueing because the Warhammer Battlemech which appeared in the Teaser Trailer looks to much like one of their design. So don't say the companies are not sue happy because that is just wishful thinking.

 

 

You are also talking about reputable dealers, not mom and pop people like I was speaking about. There is a difference between someone potentially making money off something that carrys the likeness of a copyrighted material and someone just popping together a vid for show.

 

What I can't really understand is why are we defending people doing nefarious things with the property of others. Don't people have the right to defend their property? If not, why should they even consider putting forth the effort to create anything at all.

People do have the right to defend their property.

 

The game companies oppose this bill and people buy games to play them. I still can't understand why you think this bill is fine. If they were losing profit they would support the bill.

 

 

I don't like thieves. Not in any fashion or form. Wither they wear a business suit, an evangelistic collar or a hackers smile. I couldn't care less about if I can benefit by their actions. Nothing is free and end the end people have to pay one way or the other. People who shoplift, cause the price of groceries to rise. People who steal from businesses cause the businesses to raise their prices. I'd rather cut out the masked middleman and purchase the original product from the original owner.

 

And just how does this bill address that? Does it make anything that isn't taking money out of someones pocket now, any more illegal? How does posting gameplay footage as a walkthru, or whathaveyou, or even a demo of a mod..... qualify as piracy? Is the poster making money? Is the poster that uploads it taking money away from anyone? If this bill passes, the demo video for Reclaiming Sancre Tor becomes illegal. How does that make any sense at all??

 

 

It puts control back into the hands of those who own the product. If you want to do something with it, you ask first.

 

There are people who sell cheat guides that make money, both for them and for the owner. It doesn't side step anyone. I'm sorry. I'm old school. I'm not apart of this internet age where ethics are an option as long as someone can claim there are benefits to the small guy.

Well we shouldn't even be discussing gaming on this forum should we?

 

Lets go ask the companies before we start posting.

 

You seem to think that you should ask the creator to do ANYTHING even if it doesn't effect profit.

 

 

It never fails to amuse me when people try to take things to the extremes when they get frustrated over debates.

Your point is...

 

"It puts control back into the hands of those who own the product. If you want to do something with it, you ask first."

 

Streaming video games does not effect profit, it would help profit. The companies do not mind. It is simply just talking about the game.

 

So what is the difference between typing something on these forums about the game? It is not a copyright issue since it clearly does not effect profit.

[kvnchrist]

 

"It puts control back into the hands of those who own the product. If you want to do something with it, you ask first."

 

Streaming video games does not effect profit, it would help profit. The companies do not mind. It is simply just talking about the game.

 

So what is the difference between typing something on these forums about the game? It is not a copyright issue since it clearly does not effect profit.

 

Lets stop the quote pyramid here. You know very well what my point is.

 

If the companies don't care why would they sue. You seem to think that laws are not disobeyed anywhere in the world. All you need to do is go to any torrent site to see how many people obey laws already on the books.

 

You guys seem to think this bill is some type of a death sentence. Companies don't have the time or money to go around stamping out every fire that pops up. They are not going to shut down anybody, unless there is a clear effect on their bottom line. It's simply not cost efficient.

 

My entire problem with this whole thing is the seeming overwhelming attitude on the internet that property don't matter and profit is an ugly word.

I've had this conversation before, on other sites and it is always the same thingt. The nasty companies are out to destroy everyone's right to someone else's property and how dare they take actions to protect what is theirs. I bet if these companies stopped creating these products, it would be their fault as well.

[marharth]

 

"It puts control back into the hands of those who own the product. If you want to do something with it, you ask first."

 

Streaming video games does not effect profit, it would help profit. The companies do not mind. It is simply just talking about the game.

 

So what is the difference between typing something on these forums about the game? It is not a copyright issue since it clearly does not effect profit.

 

Lets stop the quote pyramid here. You know very well what my point is.

 

If the companies don't care why would they sue. You seem to think that laws are not disobeyed anywhere in the world. All you need to do is go to any torrent site to see how many people obey laws already on the books.

 

You guys seem to think this bill is some type of a death sentence. Companies don't have the time or money to go around stamping out every fire that pops up. They are not going to shut down anybody, unless there is a clear effect on their bottom line. It's simply not cost efficient.

 

My entire problem with this whole thing is the seeming overwhelming attitude on the internet that property don't matter and profit is an ugly word.

I've had this conversation before, on other sites and it is always the same thingt. The nasty companies are out to destroy everyone's right to someone else's property and how dare they take actions to protect what is theirs. I bet if these companies stopped creating these products, it would be there fault as well.

Illegally downloading games and streaming video from the games are not even close to being the same thing.

 

For profit and morality of companies, that's for another thread.

 

Also, people don't like to obey copyright laws. How would this bill help then?

Edited July 6, 2011 by marharth