Life

[kvnchrist]

I've heard a lot of people talk about the sanctity of life, but I was wondering if life was sacred for the sake of being so, or would the quality of that life be just as important. I remember about stories of people trying to save the lives of others, as in abortion clinics but yet they leave these babies in situations where they grow up without love and are neglected and abused. I also remember stories about people coming in trying to restrict the rights of others to give their loved ones a dignified end to a artificially extended existence, plugged into a machine.

 

 

I remember a few years ago about a women that was brain dead and was on life support and a feeding tube for decades. The husband wanted to take her off the machines and let her pass in a dignified manner and her parents were fighting him. Would that be living a life or would that be simply existing.

 

Terry Schiavo

 

If it came to you would you place in your will that you didn't want to placed on any life support, if you were brain dead. If you had a family member that was in the same situation, and you knew their wishes, could you pull the plug on them.

[marharth]

If your brain dead, you are dead.

 

You are your brain, your brain controls your body and your thoughts.

 

If you lose the ability of free will and the ability to think, what makes you alive?

 

As for growing up in a bad place, that's not the same as being dead.

 

All of your decisions and knowledge come from your experiences of the outside world. Every opinion you have is really just the compiled data of multiple sources in your surroundings.

 

Every choice you make is done due to outside influence.

 

Is growing up around bad influences a problem? Yes it is, but that is how the majority of the world is.

 

TL;DR

If most of your brain is dead, so are you. Your choices are simply outside influence, and most of the outside influence in the world is bad.

[kvnchrist]

If your brain dead, you are dead.

 

You are your brain, your brain controls your body and your thoughts.

 

If you lose the ability of free will and the ability to think, what makes you alive?

 

As for growing up in a bad place, that's not the same as being dead.

 

All of your decisions and knowledge come from your experiences of the outside world. Every opinion you have is really just the compiled data of multiple sources in your surroundings.

 

Every choice you make is done due to outside influence.

 

Is growing up around bad influences a problem? Yes it is, but that is how the majority of the world is.

 

TL;DR

If most of your brain is dead, so are you. Your choices are simply outside influence, and most of the outside influence in the world is bad.

 

 

I was kind of asking a question here about quality of life as opposed to the sanctity. The last paragraph was the most important.

[marharth]

If your brain dead, you are dead.

 

You are your brain, your brain controls your body and your thoughts.

 

If you lose the ability of free will and the ability to think, what makes you alive?

 

As for growing up in a bad place, that's not the same as being dead.

 

All of your decisions and knowledge come from your experiences of the outside world. Every opinion you have is really just the compiled data of multiple sources in your surroundings.

 

Every choice you make is done due to outside influence.

 

Is growing up around bad influences a problem? Yes it is, but that is how the majority of the world is.

 

TL;DR

If most of your brain is dead, so are you. Your choices are simply outside influence, and most of the outside influence in the world is bad.

 

 

I was kind of asking a question here about quality of life as opposed to the sanctity. The last paragraph was the most important.

That kinda answered that as well.

 

Life is important. You are no longer really alive if your brain dead though.

 

I don't see a human life as being a human life if they are brain dead.

 

If your asking is life is sacred simply due to being able to breath, then no its not.

[kvnchrist]

 

If your asking is life is sacred simply due to being able to breath, then no its not.

 

Sorry Please re-read my post.

I've highlighted what I think would be most interesting.

[marharth]

 

If your asking is life is sacred simply due to being able to breath, then no its not.

 

Sorry Please re-read my post.

I've highlighted what I think would be most interesting.

Well to answer that based on my following posts, yes.

 

Unless there was some possible way to fix it of course, but that's not really the case now.

[Lisnpuppy]

I think I am gonna chime in on this one as I believe I have a somewhat...closer take on this matter.

 

I was born with an incurable illness that involved the human papalloma virus. It caused small, wart-like growths in my vocal cords, larynx and lungs. I had breathing issues from birth but it was not until age four that I was diagnosed and began having surgeries. They would remove the growths but they would grow quickly back. At age six and the very night before I was supposed to leave for surgery at Boston Children's Hospital the growths cut of my air and I almost died. To avoid this my doctor had to perform an emergency tracheotomy (a tube in the neck allowing one to breathe) to keep me alive.

 

Though eventually the papaloma went into remission I have continued airway issues due to scar tissue build up ( I was re-trached when I got pregnant with my only child) and have had to date over 50 operations for my respiratory issues. I have come close to dying on more than one occasion. I also fight with other medical issues including diabetes and crohn's disease.

 

When I had to be trached when I was pregnant with my daughter it was the first time I gave serious thought to this issue. Being only 26 at the time I still felt somewhat invincible despite life trying to take me out a few times. I considered it over a few days before the operation and at that time made a very specific living will that they were to anything to keep me alive to keep my daughter alive and bring her into the world. At that point I wanted to be taken off any equipment that was keeping me alive artificially. I was not married and looked at both my parents and asked if they could and would respect my wishes. My Mother said she didn't know, my Father gave a firm yes. He became the person to make the decision for me at that time.

 

Subsequently I have has multiple surgeries and am likely to have more. Each time I update my living will. At this time in my life (I am staring down the barrel at 40) I think I have a pretty good grip on how I would or wouldn't want to "live." I still do not want extreme artificial support (if a respirator or feeding tube or colostomy bag isn't in some way "temporary" then I want that plug pulled when brain activity is gone or I am deemed to be in a permanent vegetative state.

 

I have fought to LIVE all my life and am not done fighting, but there is being alive and there is living. A plant is alive...but in theory anyway....does it live or exist? I do not want to merely exist in the world. I do not want to suffer with pain or suffering or incapacitation that is so great that it blocks out any joy i can get or more importantly..any that I can give. Life is sacred not because something is breathing or a heart beats...it is sacred because of the impact it can have on the world.

 

The one very different thing I have is regarding a colostomy bag. Having Crohns disease makes this something one thinks about on occasion. I know may people live full lives with them. I am not one that could. This in essence is my line in the sand.

 

Also if I had reached a certain stage of some terminal illness...I would fight until it was impossible to do more. Once I met that point, again, where the quality of life was not there...I would refuse further treatment.

 

Yes there are miracles, or luck, or chance or whatever that will change and make an impossible thing happen....I believe I am one as I have proved many doctors wrong in what they believed of me. However I do not believe that "life" is just existing. I would not force anyone else to make the same decisions for themselves that I am making, but I have someone that will listen to my decisions no matter how painful they may be. Sometimes the hell is in the living, not the dying.

 

So in my humble opinion, these matters should be made by the individuals themselves if they are able. In extreme cases I believe the closest family member should be able to make the decision under certain circumstance. I know that setting that up will be debated but...

 

My advice to all of you...no matter how young or old...make a living will and get it noterized. Tell everyone you know about your wishes and that the will exist. Put it in a safe, yet known place to your family. Have someone made medical power of attorney for you that you trust to make these decisions or enact YOUR decisions. Don't make your family fight or guess or wonder...just make your will known to them and hopefully give them some peace.

[kvnchrist]

I think I am gonna chime in on this one as I believe I have a somewhat...closer take on this matter.

 

I was born with an incurable illness that involved the human papalloma virus. It caused small, wart-like growths in my vocal cords, larynx and lungs. I had breathing issues from birth but it was not until age four that I was diagnosed and began having surgeries. They would remove the growths but they would grow quickly back. At age six and the very night before I was supposed to leave for surgery at Boston Children's Hospital the growths cut of my air and I almost died. To avoid this my doctor had to perform an emergency tracheotomy (a tube in the neck allowing one to breathe) to keep me alive.

 

Though eventually the papaloma went into remission I have continued airway issues due to scar tissue build up ( I was re-trached when I got pregnant with my only child) and have had to date over 50 operations for my respiratory issues. I have come close to dying on more than one occasion. I also fight with other medical issues including diabetes and crohn's disease.

 

When I had to be trached when I was pregnant with my daughter it was the first time I gave serious thought to this issue. Being only 26 at the time I still felt somewhat invincible despite life trying to take me out a few times. I considered it over a few days before the operation and at that time made a very specific living will that they were to anything to keep me alive to keep my daughter alive and bring her into the world. At that point I wanted to be taken off any equipment that was keeping me alive artificially. I was not married and looked at both my parents and asked if they could and would respect my wishes. My Mother said she didn't know, my Father gave a firm yes. He became the person to make the decision for me at that time.

 

Subsequently I have has multiple surgeries and am likely to have more. Each time I update my living will. At this time in my life (I am staring down the barrel at 40) I think I have a pretty good grip on how I would or wouldn't want to "live." I still do not want extreme artificial support (if a respirator or feeding tube or colostomy bag isn't in some way "temporary" then I want that plug pulled when brain activity is gone or I am deemed to be in a permanent vegetative state.

 

I have fought to LIVE all my life and am not done fighting, but there is being alive and there is living. A plant is alive...but in theory anyway....does it live or exist? I do not want to merely exist in the world. I do not want to suffer with pain or suffering or incapacitation that is so great that it blocks out any joy i can get or more importantly..any that I can give. Life is sacred not because something is breathing or a heart beats...it is sacred because of the impact it can have on the world.

 

The one very different thing I have is regarding a colostomy bag. Having Crohns disease makes this something one thinks about on occasion. I know may people live full lives with them. I am not one that could. This in essence is my line in the sand.

 

Also if I had reached a certain stage of some terminal illness...I would fight until it was impossible to do more. Once I met that point, again, where the quality of life was not there...I would refuse further treatment.

 

Yes there are miracles, or luck, or chance or whatever that will change and make an impossible thing happen....I believe I am one as I have proved many doctors wrong in what they believed of me. However I do not believe that "life" is just existing. I would not force anyone else to make the same decisions for themselves that I am making, but I have someone that will listen to my decisions no matter how painful they may be. Sometimes the hell is in the living, not the dying.

 

So in my humble opinion, these matters should be made by the individuals themselves if they are able. In extreme cases I believe the closest family member should be able to make the decision under certain circumstance. I know that setting that up will be debated but...

 

My advice to all of you...no matter how young or old...make a living will and get it noterized. Tell everyone you know about your wishes and that the will exist. Put it in a safe, yet known place to your family. Have someone made medical power of attorney for you that you trust to make these decisions or enact YOUR decisions. Don't make your family fight or guess or wonder...just make your will known to them and hopefully give them some peace.

 

You are a champion, and you have all my respect. It is rare that I get such an open and an honest reply to this. You have a friend in me and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for you being yourself and letting us she you shine.

[HeyYou]

I think the archaic definition of "life" is what really gets in the way here. So long as the heart keeps beating, that person is considered "alive". Doesn't matter that said person will never get out of bed again, never recognize a loved one, never speak another word, and will require constant care to maintain said "life"....... If the brain dies, that's it. There is no hope, and there is no point in continuing care for a shell that used to be a person.

 

Lisnpuppy, I have a great deal of respect for you, and you have my best wishes that you may live a long and happy life.

 

For my part..... it isn't about if some part of the body is still functioning or not, whether a person is "alive"..... It's more about quality of life. If I can't enjoy my life, then why in hades would I want to continue living it? I have Multiple Sclerosis. I am looking at my body slowly (hopefully) deteriorating to the point that I will be restricted to a wheel chair, or a bed. I will lose control of my various functions, and basically end up right back where I started this journey. Totally dependent on the care of others, unable to do anything at all for myself. A burden on my family. Oddly enough, I don't really look forward to that...... therefore, when the time comes, and I feel that my life is no longer worth living, in MY opinion, I will take steps to end it.

[kvnchrist]

I think the archaic definition of "life" is what really gets in the way here. So long as the heart keeps beating, that person is considered "alive". Doesn't matter that said person will never get out of bed again, never recognize a loved one, never speak another word, and will require constant care to maintain said "life"....... If the brain dies, that's it. There is no hope, and there is no point in continuing care for a shell that used to be a person.

 

Lisnpuppy, I have a great deal of respect for you, and you have my best wishes that you may live a long and happy life.

 

For my part..... it isn't about if some part of the body is still functioning or not, whether a person is "alive"..... It's more about quality of life. If I can't enjoy my life, then why in hades would I want to continue living it? I have Multiple Sclerosis. I am looking at my body slowly (hopefully) deteriorating to the point that I will be restricted to a wheel chair, or a bed. I will lose control of my various functions, and basically end up right back where I started this journey. Totally dependent on the care of others, unable to do anything at all for myself. A burden on my family. Oddly enough, I don't really look forward to that...... therefore, when the time comes, and I feel that my life is no longer worth living, in MY opinion, I will take steps to end it.

 

 

I am so very sorry for you. I can't stand the illnesses that plague us as human beings. Of all the illnesses that I hate, I think the worst is alzheimer's. Aids was the one I most despised, but there have been treatments for that. It still hasn't been cured, but people have a descent chance of living a long life. I grieve for anyone suffering from anything, but it seems so unfair that so many in the waining years of their lives should have the very thing they have to hold their lives together, Their memories, are being taken from them so unjustly.