why is everyone pirating FONV?

[Philosophiac]

Interestingly, Steam users get a lot of demos, screenshots, friend recommendations etc.

 

I have no sympathy for people who don't want to use Steam. Don't want to use steam? Play something else. As the point has been made repeatedly,

Click Steam and then Go Offline..., problem solved.

 

 

I can agree with your sentiment, too... as someone who has likely never pirated anything and believes in 'upholding the rules for the sake of the rules'. No doubt this is what makes you suitable to the role of a moderator, as there must always be someone who can stand back and enforce the rules while the debate rages on around them as to what the rules realistically should be.

 

What I can't agree with is the sentiment that a game designed with requirements which forbid the player from so much as STARTING the game without first running another (albeit wonderfully useful and utterly unobtrusive) program in the background should therefore only be available to those who submit to this ridiculous logic. Piracy has been around forever. It's not something new. The means and creativity of the pirate is something which has long been a bane for the developers of software and music.

 

The digital age has done nothing if not -increase- the ability of these pirates to do exactly what it is they do... because we live in a world where it's almost impossible to be successful without being tech-savvy... and so we put into the hands of everyone the means with which to undermine the whole of our civilization. Because let's face it... the people who spend their time taking apart these games, putting them together again, and distributing them for free over the internet are not 'stupid pirates' out there with a limited set of skills.

 

These are individuals who, sometimes professionally, reverse-engineer software and digital media for the purpose of redistribution... they're the small fish in the pond of digital crime. Hackers, Viral-Engineers... you name it... there are people out there with the capacity to take apart anything you might build and place before them.

 

And so what is the solution these businesses come up with?

 

 

Punish the legal consumer, while doing nothing to prevent the crime. DRM doesn't even -slow- piracy down. It does NOTHING to protect the Developer or the Publisher from the effects of Piracy. New Vegas was cracked and available online in less than 24-hours after it's release. The DLCs have each been uploaded same-day of their release.

 

So tell me, why is it Steam is required... rather than an option, like so many other games? How has this reliance prevented the piracy and illegal distribution of Fallout: New Vegas and it's Downloadable Content? How has the Steam-requirement done anything other than cause controversy?

 

I already stated this, but I happen to -love- Steam. I'd have gotten New Vegas on Steam, even had it -not- been required... because I love the convenience. But really, why is it required at all? Why is there even a debate? All that Obsidian has done is effective forced us all to pray that Steam never gets bumped out of the Digital Distribution scene by something much better... while inspire an entire collective of consumers who would have happily played the game legally to go out and pirate it because of their feelings towards Steam.

 

In my personal opinion... I think the answer is far simpler than most explanations.

 

I could call it an evil corporate conspiracy... or a part of the Industry's war on the Resale Market... but really?

 

I think Obsidian couldn't have handled such a massive, large-scale release without the help of a digital distribution group like Steam. I think that the 'Requirement' aspect of the whole thing was probably done to inspire most folks NOT to buy a solid-copy of the disk, but rather to purchase it off of Steam... thereby eliminating a great deal of the pressure that physical distribution would have placed upon them.

 

I think it was a mistake, in terms of appealing to the audience. I see far more people AGAINST the idea of requiring Steam than those who are for it... almost universally... amongst all my peers, and across all the forums I frequent. I have friends who have both the cracked and a legally obtained copy of Fallout: New Vegas... simply because they have an inexplicable hatred for Steam. I have co-workers without internet access who purchased the game at the store not knowing all the hype, who got home and discovered they couldn't play the game... who had to go to their local internet cafe to activate a service they'll never use for the sole purpose of ONE game...

 

... I might be old fashioned, but for me, the people come before the company policy and the rules... and to me... that's just a bad way to do business.

 

Use this completely useless-to-you program too, or don't play our game? Is that the future of gaming?

 

If so, I weep for the death of my favorite past time.

 

 

So, for the tl;dr crowd: "I agree with those who follow the rules of law... but I have sympathy for those who find themselves unable to do so and enjoy the game, for whatever reason. I don't condone theft, but I don't condone poor business practices either. Alienating part of your consumer base is -never- the right decision to make, no matter how your faithful customers rush to your defense with 'If you don't like it, play something else'."

 

Done and done.

 

Anyways, that's my two cents... it's a very divisive topic, and I'd hate to see it turn into an argument. I'm more interested in peoples' opinions, anyways... and I've heard a few, and shared mine... so it's time to move along.

 

-Cheers!

Edited July 11, 2011 by Philosophiac

[NorthWolf]

Steam just makes it easier to catch pirates. Every game is pirated en masse, but a lot of the piracy of F:NV has to work around Steam. A clueless pirate then figures that it patches like traditional games, can't find patch links, and thus goes here and asks where he can find patches. Not realizing there's no "non-Steam" version, they figure this is innocent and they'll get away with it. They release details and are eventually asked why Steam isn't working. They claim a "non-Steam" version, which would work for other games, and get banned as a result.

 

This is what I see most often in the bans (I read them because I find some of the pirates hilarious, I admit). They let slip a technical aspect that's missing because of Steam (wrong folder, no patch, inability to validate files, etc.) and get banned as a result. Steam is responsible for the number of bans you see, the amount of piracy is probably the exact same.

 

Anyway, I understand some people dislike Steam. However, compared to the other DRM you could be using, it's a saint. I know, I sympathize that you don't want it on your computer, but at least try to appreciate that it's probably the most merciful form of DRM and genuinely has functional utility outside of being a DRM. Their sales are one-of-a-kind and the social apps are actually very useful... I like getting a tell in another game to join some friends for L4D2, etc. But, hey, even if you don't use the social apps at least take a glance at their sales from time to time, they're actually really good.

Edited July 11, 2011 by NorthWolf

[nivea]

I know 5 people in RL who bought NV at 60$ first day it was out... only to find Steam wasnt just some one stop game register site, now 3 of those 5 use cracks to get around Steam all together until they feel the DLC are worth installing the blasted program. The other 1 was able to return the game, the last sits on a legal copy of the game with no way to play it because he has dial up and cant get Steam to function properly to play it. How is that fare?

 

I bought the game knowing kinda what Steam was, foolish of me.... I too thought it was a one stop game register site, I always register my games never had a problem with it. But now I find myself tempted just like many others to use a cracked version just so I can play my legal game without dealing with a ton of head aches.

 

Pirating is bad, we know this.... but Steam is NOT stoping pirates at all. Two days after NV came out there was a cracked version, two days after the first patch came out there was a cracked version.... a few days after this last one the cracked version came out (some of my friends have been bugging me since they couldnt use NVSE).

I shudder to think I will be forced to use that crappy program if I want Skyrim... I hope not... I really hope not.

 

I fear the more games FORCE steam on people the more people will turn towards pirated copies.

 

Lmfao.... I just poked my head in the banned place and daaaang your right about there being a lot of them. o_O

Edited July 11, 2011 by nivea

[lostone1993]

If i may add to this disscusion, sometimes a game is "cracked" or pirated because some see when a company proclaims there DRM is uncrackable etc, they laying down the gaunlet for someone to do it simply as challege

 

but most times i believe steam is to blame, for piracy of FONV simply due to it dosent always function unless you are near a major city/good internet hub. I know this personally. I have massive trouble getting it to work most of time. But this does not excuse their actions

[hoofhearted4]

so wait, if i burn the Steam game to a CD i can then play that game without Steam? (say on a PC without Steam?) or will i still have to download Steam so it can check it every time i put it in.

 

as i said, my goal would be to have these games (since ive bought them) in the event Steam dies. and still be able to play them

[tunaisafish]

@hoofhearted, no the backup files act just the install DVD.

So in theory you can use those to install the game again at a later date, and it may save you having to wait for the files to re-download from Steam. If the files in the backup are out of date, then you may as well just click the 'Install' button in Steam. The backup files still need a Steam connection to install.

[hoofhearted4]

yea darn. like i said, i just wanted the games in the chance that Steam every dies, id hate to lose the money i spend on games, but then again, i hardly doubt Steam is going anywhere since its like the lead thing for PC gaming. (and Valve being a huge and successful company as well)

[cavveman]

I remember when GTA IV was released. You had to run 2 extra programs, but Rockstar listened and removed their club program. Now only G4WL runs when I play it, and I rather prefer G4WL then Steam.

I know that we can run FONV offline, but for some people, they only use dial up still and buy retail DVD's. I have a friend that bought FONV but could not activate the game at all, since steam needed to update and with his dial up connection it would uhm, take forever I guess.

 

And now steam have that code thingy, when ever you have reinstalled the game, you need to type in a code, And I have dynamic ip, i have no idea how oft i have written in those codes...

[phoneyLogic]

@cavvman

That's not related to the IP, but to the browser. It's an optional account protection called "Steam Guard" and can be switched off in the options. So if you are using different browser or user accounts in windows, it might be more convenient to switch that thing off.

 

 

@hoofhearted4

I don't belive that Steam is going to close soon, but sooner or later almost every company does. So there's a good chance that we will experience such things, the more this kind of copy protection is getting common. But of cause this can be applied to every kind of copy protection which requires the owner to connect to the internet to either be able to install or play the game. Some companies seems to belive they are existing forever. ^^

Edited July 11, 2011 by tortured Tomato

[Thandal]

so in the end, its because of Steam that soo many ppl pirate FONV...i knew there had to be a common link....

I don't think it's that requiring Steam causes more piracy, it's that the piracy becomes more obvious when the pirates themselves come here and complain about their games and/or patches and/or mods not working! :tongue: