Transgender Our rights as opposed to those who look the part.

[TheMastersSon]

Completely agree about unisex bathrooms. Everyone can use a toilet, nobody requires a urinal, and these days even diaper changing tables can be found equally in men's and women's restrooms. Nobody seems to have any problem with unisex restrooms at everywhere from beaches and parks to gas stations and grocery stores.

Edited August 25, 2016 by TheMastersSon

[HeyYou]

The answer to your first question is that second class citizen status is disallowed for anyone in our country. Our 14th and 5th Amendments prohibit it. Numbers don't matter, as long as enough (i.e. more than one) hermaphrodites exist to form a legal class, it's "enough".

 

But your other point is well noted. Estimates I've read ranged from 0.02 to .17% of human births. So I use .1% as a ballpark between the two. But again it's not as though it's ok to violate the rights of any number of people, as long as it's not that many. It's how a lot of other countries operate, that don't have things like equal protection and due process laws.

 

I honestly don't understand defense of NC's law. If it's come down to America not even being able to use a restroom without this goverment mandated nonsense, imo there's either nothing or extremely close to nothing left to save. Land of the Free, and you're under arrest for using the wrong bathroom. Good God. Does nothing whatsoever remain of personal responsibility and mutual consideration in our country?

 

Here's a question nobody has manged to answer yet: please explain under what circumstance this new law can be enforced? Is NC planning to install birth certificate checkers in all public restrooms? Or does it amount simply to additional legal harassment of transgendered people?

But that's just it. No matter which way you slice, you will be violating someones rights. It makes sense to me to make that number as small as possible. Considering that the number of folks that want to use the 'other' bathroom, is a very tiny minority, doesn't it seem reasonable that they would be the ones that should have to give, instead of the rest of the population? Granted, to all of the 'rest of the population' sees this is much of an issue.... However, the significant majority does. Aren't we ostensibly a democratic nation? Majority rules, and all that? Or, should the majority give in to the tiny minority, and lets just toss all that democracy nonsense out the window?

 

Basically, you simply CAN'T let everyone have what they want here. Something is going to have to give, will it be the majority? Or the minority?

Edited August 25, 2016 by HeyYou

[TheMastersSon]

I used to use the following in defense of same-sex marriage recognition, but it works here. Sort of. :D

 

If the right to pee and poop in the bathroom of our choosing is not part of our unalienable (i.e. NOT state-granted) rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, nothing else ever could be.

Edited August 25, 2016 by TheMastersSon

[sunshinenbrick]

Isn't one of, if not THE, most powerful idea in support of 'western democracy' is that the minority is of equal importance as the majority, and that this is how many of the freedoms and opportunities we have today were won?

[kvnchrist]

The answer to your first question is that second class citizen status is disallowed for anyone in our country. Our 14th and 5th Amendments prohibit it. Numbers don't matter, as long as enough (i.e. more than one) hermaphrodites exist to form a legal class, it's "enough".

 

But your other point is well noted. Estimates I've read ranged from 0.02 to .17% of human births. So I use .1% as a ballpark between the two. But again it's not as though it's ok to violate the rights of any number of people, as long as it's not that many. It's how a lot of other countries operate, that don't have things like equal protection and due process laws.

 

I honestly don't understand defense of NC's law. If it's come down to America not even being able to use a restroom without this goverment mandated nonsense, imo there's either nothing or extremely close to nothing left to save. Land of the Free, and you're under arrest for using the wrong bathroom. Good God. Does nothing whatsoever remain of personal responsibility and mutual consideration in our country?

 

Here's a question nobody has manged to answer yet: please explain under what circumstance this new law can be enforced? Is NC planning to install birth certificate checkers in all public restrooms? Or does it amount simply to additional legal harassment of transgendered people?

 

Transgender people are not Hermaphrodites. Transgender people, of which I am one are born in the bodies of the sex that is opposite from that which we identify with. I just googled the 5th and the 14th amendments and unless I've missed something I am not aware of, none of that pertains to this subject.

 

 

I doin't care about NC laws. I care about those women, who are my sisters in everything other than of the skin which will be effected by this outrageous and ludicrous attempt at victimization of a larger part of society for the sake of self centered people who care nothing about the society they which to be apart of.

 

I have lived my life enying women of every age for eveything they can do as women, from birth to old age, because they were raised female into the society I live in. They have an honored place in my heart and soul and their is, to me a dignity and a majesty to each and every one of the. Above all I respect them for all the hardships they have endured in the Man's world, they have to navigate through. I have seen the results of many terrible incidents that many of these women happened to them, because of their sex and sexuality and I would be the last one to unnerve them by standing inline, looking as I do, to use a public bathroom. Even more I would go to jail to deny any other Male to Female Transgender person who looked male from doing so.

 

Noone has the right to this, unless they have made the transition and look the part enough to pass a cursery visual exception by those ladies who they are among

 

IMO these people who are pushing this do a disservce to transgender people because, now, even those who have already transitioned will be more scrutinized.

[TheMastersSon]

 

The answer to your first question is that second class citizen status is disallowed for anyone in our country. Our 14th and 5th Amendments prohibit it. Numbers don't matter, as long as enough (i.e. more than one) hermaphrodites exist to form a legal class, it's "enough".

 

But your other point is well noted. Estimates I've read ranged from 0.02 to .17% of human births. So I use .1% as a ballpark between the two. But again it's not as though it's ok to violate the rights of any number of people, as long as it's not that many. It's how a lot of other countries operate, that don't have things like equal protection and due process laws.

 

I honestly don't understand defense of NC's law. If it's come down to America not even being able to use a restroom without this goverment mandated nonsense, imo there's either nothing or extremely close to nothing left to save. Land of the Free, and you're under arrest for using the wrong bathroom. Good God. Does nothing whatsoever remain of personal responsibility and mutual consideration in our country?

 

Here's a question nobody has manged to answer yet: please explain under what circumstance this new law can be enforced? Is NC planning to install birth certificate checkers in all public restrooms? Or does it amount simply to additional legal harassment of transgendered people?

 

Transgender people are not Hermaphrodites. Transgender people, of which I am one are born in the bodies of the sex that is opposite from that which we identify with. I just googled the 5th and the 14th amendments and unless I've missed something I am not aware of, none of that pertains to this subject.

 

 

I doin't care about NC laws. I care about those women, who are my sisters in everything other than of the skin which will be effected by this outrageous and ludicrous attempt at victimization of a larger part of society for the sake of self centered people who care nothing about the society they which to be apart of.

 

I have lived my life enying women of every age for eveything they can do as women, from birth to old age, because they were raised female into the society I live in. They have an honored place in my heart and soul and their is, to me a dignity and a majesty to each and every one of the. Above all I respect them for all the hardships they have endured in the Man's world, they have to navigate through. I have seen the results of many terrible incidents that many of these women happened to them, because of their sex and sexuality and I would be the last one to unnerve them by standing inline, looking as I do, to use a public bathroom. Even more I would go to jail to deny any other Male to Female Transgender person who looked male from doing so.

 

Noone has the right to this, unless they have made the transition and look the part enough to pass a cursery visual exception by those ladies who they are among

 

IMO these people who are pushing this do a disservce to transgender people because, now, even those who have already transitioned will be more scrutinized.

 

I got as far as your first paragraph. What is it with this site and hostile members? I was trying to agree with you for crying out loud.

 

Your first claim is ridiculous (at least some transgender people are indeed hermaphrodites who had incorrect gender choices made for them by their doctors at birth), and instead of making an even more absurd claim that this NC law has nothing to do with equal protection or due process, simply watch what eventually happens with it, and on what grounds the law is repealed.

 

I wish you the best. IMO you certainly have the emotional makeup of a woman, and from your posts I honestly can't tell if you're a transgender or simply a man who really dislikes his own gender.

[TheMastersSon]

Isn't one of, if not THE, most powerful idea in support of 'western democracy' is that the minority is of equal importance as the majority, and that this is how many of the freedoms and opportunities we have today were won?

What confuses many Americans is that our Bill of Rights is not a bill of rights, it's a bill of limitations and restrictions on government infringement of rights. This confusion is entirely intentional and it's how people like Anton Scalia were able to justify their outrageous "constitutional textualist" hogwash. It was just another term for "We know what our job is and refuse to do it." How many times have we heard it in the last 30+ years, "If a right is not explicitly stated in our Constitution, it's not a right" blah blah, the same scam has been applied to everything from abortion and privacy rights to same-sex marriage recognition, because there ARE no explicit rights stated in our Bill of Rights and there aren't supposed to be.

 

I forget who it was that said that civil law can be defined as tyranny of the majority over the minority, in fact our Bill of Rights amounts to protection given to specific minorities against this majority tyranny. Any law whose only practical purpose is to legally harass a specific law-abiding minority can't and won't pass muster with our Constitution. It's as true for transgendered Americans as gay Americans or black Americans.

Edited August 26, 2016 by TheMastersSon

[kvnchrist]

 

 

The answer to your first question is that second class citizen status is disallowed for anyone in our country. Our 14th and 5th Amendments prohibit it. Numbers don't matter, as long as enough (i.e. more than one) hermaphrodites exist to form a legal class, it's "enough".

 

But your other point is well noted. Estimates I've read ranged from 0.02 to .17% of human births. So I use .1% as a ballpark between the two. But again it's not as though it's ok to violate the rights of any number of people, as long as it's not that many. It's how a lot of other countries operate, that don't have things like equal protection and due process laws.

 

I honestly don't understand defense of NC's law. If it's come down to America not even being able to use a restroom without this goverment mandated nonsense, imo there's either nothing or extremely close to nothing left to save. Land of the Free, and you're under arrest for using the wrong bathroom. Good God. Does nothing whatsoever remain of personal responsibility and mutual consideration in our country?

 

Here's a question nobody has manged to answer yet: please explain under what circumstance this new law can be enforced? Is NC planning to install birth certificate checkers in all public restrooms? Or does it amount simply to additional legal harassment of transgendered people?

 

Transgender people are not Hermaphrodites. Transgender people, of which I am one are born in the bodies of the sex that is opposite from that which we identify with. I just googled the 5th and the 14th amendments and unless I've missed something I am not aware of, none of that pertains to this subject.

 

 

I doin't care about NC laws. I care about those women, who are my sisters in everything other than of the skin which will be effected by this outrageous and ludicrous attempt at victimization of a larger part of society for the sake of self centered people who care nothing about the society they which to be apart of.

 

I have lived my life enying women of every age for eveything they can do as women, from birth to old age, because they were raised female into the society I live in. They have an honored place in my heart and soul and their is, to me a dignity and a majesty to each and every one of the. Above all I respect them for all the hardships they have endured in the Man's world, they have to navigate through. I have seen the results of many terrible incidents that many of these women happened to them, because of their sex and sexuality and I would be the last one to unnerve them by standing inline, looking as I do, to use a public bathroom. Even more I would go to jail to deny any other Male to Female Transgender person who looked male from doing so.

 

Noone has the right to this, unless they have made the transition and look the part enough to pass a cursery visual exception by those ladies who they are among

 

IMO these people who are pushing this do a disservce to transgender people because, now, even those who have already transitioned will be more scrutinized.

 

I got as far as your first paragraph. What is it with this site and hostile members? I was trying to agree with you for crying out loud.

 

Your first claim is ridiculous (at least some transgender people are indeed hermaphrodites who had incorrect gender choices made for them by their doctors at birth), and instead of making an even more absurd claim that this NC law has nothing to do with equal protection or due process, simply watch what eventually happens with it, and on what grounds the law is repealed.

 

I wish you the best. IMO you certainly have the emotional makeup of a woman, and from your posts I honestly can't tell if you're a transgender or simply a man who really dislikes his own gender.

 

You are mistaken about transgender and hermaphrodites. How can someone whose body has the sexual parts of both genders be transgender. The very term transgender makes that impossible. I couldn't care less about those who have had the wrong parts removed. That just makes them victims of society not nature.

 

If you wish to talk with me I suggest you stop characterizing my statements as ridiculous or absurd and concentrate of proving your point. Did you miss my words about not caring about what some left or right wing politician shoves into being, which includes this NC law.

 

And I will let that crack about you not knowing wither I am transgender or a man who hates his own gender go by as transgender is not an attitude or an ideal. It is a state of being that doesn't correspond to anyone eleses expectations. It amuses me when people assume that they know what transgenders think or act like simply because they advocate for them, even though no transgender has asked them too.

 

Also your comment about my emotional makeup is bigoted and prejudicial. Are you saying that no man would react like that or are you saying that only women react accordingly?

[TheMastersSon]

 

You are mistaken about transgender and hermaphrodites. How can someone whose body has the sexual parts of both genders be transgender. The very term transgender makes that impossible.

I was referring to people such as yourself who claim to feel trapped inside the body of the wrong gender. Not people who have already been physically transgendered. At least to me it's self-evident that hermaphrodites who were victims of incorrect surgery at birth account for at least some and probably many candidates for transgender therapy as adults. The traditional societal preference for male children imo accounts for most transgender therapies being male to female and not vice-versa. A doctor friend of our family claims it was a given for decades to "make" hermaphroditic newborns male if at all possible, since it made most families happier. No joke.

Edited August 26, 2016 by TheMastersSon

[kvnchrist]

 

 

You are mistaken about transgender and hermaphrodites. How can someone whose body has the sexual parts of both genders be transgender. The very term transgender makes that impossible.

I was referring to people such as yourself who claim to feel trapped inside the body of the wrong gender. Not people who have already been physically transgendered. At least to me it's self-evident that hermaphrodites who were victims of incorrect surgery at birth account for at least some and probably many candidates for transgender therapy as adults. The traditional societal preference for male children imo accounts for most transgender therapies being male to female and not vice-versa. A doctor friend of our family claims it was a given for decades to "make" hermaphroditic newborns male if at all possible, since it made most families happier. No joke.

 

There is no physical transgender, since transgender isn't physical. It is a mental reaction to an adverse physical state. A hermaphrodites is not in the body of the opposite sex, it is in a body that was altered to reflect a sex, which was not it's natural state.

 

Reading what you stated, I would say self evident comes from your own particular ideology. You speak of tradition as if it were the norm . could you please show me data on this. i am not trying to jump you, but i would like to find out the facts on such things because it sounds intriguing Thank you!.