Transgender Our rights as opposed to those who look the part.

[TheMastersSon]

Of course there is physical transgender. It's the primary goal of so-called transgender therapy, including surgery and hormones etc. Years ago a separate term was used to describe people who went through this therapy ("transsexual") but it's considered obsolete and even offensive to many transgendered today, according to Wiki's article:

 

"Many transgender people prefer the designation transgender and reject transsexual. For example, Christine Jorgensen publicly rejected transsexual in 1979, and instead identified herself in newsprint as trans-gender, saying, "gender doesn't have to do with bed partners, it has to do with identity."This refers to the concern that transsexual implies something to do with sexuality, when it is actually about gender identity. Some transsexual people (those who desire or have undergone), however, object to being included in the transgender umbrella. The definitions of both terms have historically been variable."

 

As for your request for data on the hermaphrodite issue, if you find any please let me know. We can't even get a straight answer about how many of them exist in our country. :)

[kvnchrist]

Of course there is physical transgender. It's the primary goal of so-called transgender therapy, including surgery and hormones etc. Years ago a separate term was used to describe people who went through this therapy ("transsexual") but it's considered obsolete and even offensive to many transgendered today, according to Wiki's article:

 

"Many transgender people prefer the designation transgender and reject transsexual. For example, Christine Jorgensen publicly rejected transsexual in 1979, and instead identified herself in newsprint as trans-gender, saying, "gender doesn't have to do with bed partners, it has to do with identity."This refers to the concern that transsexual implies something to do with sexuality, when it is actually about gender identity. Some transsexual people (those who desire or have undergone), however, object to being included in the transgender umbrella. The definitions of both terms have historically been variable."

 

As for your request for data on the hermaphrodite issue, if you find any please let me know. We can't even get a straight answer about how many of them exist in our country. :smile:

There is no physical transgender. The goal of therapy and surgery is to attain the body form which you identify with, but one that is achieved you are no longer trans-anything because you are not transitioning into anything, You are already there. I don't follow any wiki articals.

[sunshinenbrick]

'Trans' could be applied to both physical or mental states. It is whether other people see you as 'trans-gender', even if you look and feel the part, not solely how you perceive things yourself. This is not to say it doesn't matter of course, how you feel inside (or outside) is very important, but if you are ostracised by society anyway then it can make little difference to your quality of life.

 

Thinking about it more broadly, we all go through periods of transition within our lives, including sexually - being a boy is very different to being a man, some of that is physical transition and some of it mental/psychological.

 

Perhaps it is also the deeper and wider feelings of alienation, competitiveness and insecurity that exaggerate many of the divisions among communities and drives people to resort to ever increasing forms of xenophobia. What is sadly ironic is we are so afraid of losing 'rights' even when we likely don't really have them in the first place. Then when we feel threatened by some potential (and usually part imaginary) threat we predictably focus on those who are in a weaker minority and in turn confine ourselves to an ever narrower set of principles.

 

Of course all this isn't just about unisex bathrooms, as I have said, and it shows some of the questionable tactics of political engineering - if you bombard people from multiple angles they will become so confused and anxious that they can't think clearly or organise themselves.

[TheMastersSon]

kvnchrist, as you can tell I'm the farthest thing from an expert on this subject that you can possibly imagine. So apologies in advance if any of these basic assumptions are incorrect, but it's my current understanding from what I've read:

 

People who psychologically self-identify with the opposite gender from what they currently are, are known as transgenders. The term applies regardless of whether people have had or are even considering any physical therapy. See:

 

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/04/transgender.aspx

 

People who have had transgender therapy, formerly known as transsexuals, according to Wiki many or most of them still prefer the term transgender. See my earlier Wiki reference. Even though you don't read Wiki articles, imo maybe you should just once. As others have noted, experts tell us and common sense dictates (imo) that transgender is both mental and physical, one is simply the logical end result and fulfillment of the other.

Edited August 26, 2016 by TheMastersSon

[Marxist ßastard]

BTW, The Truth About the Massive New Study that Has Captivated Anti-LGBT Groups

[TheMastersSon]

From Marxist's article:

 

"On the question of “sexual orientation,” the authors expound at length about how the very concept is so “ambiguous.” It’s not clear, they argue, whether the term is always being used to describe “sexual desire,” “sexual attraction,” or “sexual arousal,” noting that “sexual orientation and identity are understood not only in scientific and personal terms, but in social, moral, and political terms as well.” That’s true, and likewise, many people’s sexual orientations don’t fit neatly into discrete categories of heterosexuality, bisexuality, or homosexuality."

 

Well it depends on whether you consider 5% to be "many". The study numbers on this particular question have been so consistent over the last half century that credible debate no longer even exists about it: 5% of not only our country but any human population are unsure about or questioning their sexual orientations, the other 95% are not, and their orientations never change. If the author's intent was to discredit the Heritage Foundation, adding misinformation to misformation doesn't help imo. Even putting the term sexual orientation in quotes is scary imo, as if it's not been established beyond any doubt that 95% of us are oriented fundamentally (not just sexually but emotionally etc) toward one gender or the other. But I'm sure the quotes made Heritage happy.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

"On the question of “sexual orientation,” the authors expound at length about how the very concept is so “ambiguous.” It’s not clear, they argue, whether the term is always being used to describe “sexual desire,” “sexual attraction,” or “sexual arousal,” noting that “sexual orientation and identity are understood not only in scientific and personal terms, but in social, moral, and political terms as well.” That’s true, and likewise, many people’s sexual orientations don’t fit neatly into discrete categories of heterosexuality, bisexuality, or homosexuality."

 

Very insightful. Outside having sex with the other, what does it actually mean to be a 'man' or a 'woman'?

 

I don't think sexuality or sexual 'orientation' is as clear cut as people tend to portray. Even if you are attracted to the opposite sex, you may still feel challenged by and/or compare yourself to other members of the same sex. We are generally quite intelligent beings, which makes or social structures and relationships very complex and diverse.

 

Additionally, in the drive for an almost dogmatic like productivity we have also built an ever increasingly competitive environment where we are constantly urged to look a certain way, seek specific behaviours and avoid others. All the while we can forget how naturally strange and diverse being a human actually is.

[TheMastersSon]

 

"On the question of “sexual orientation,” the authors expound at length about how the very concept is so “ambiguous.” It’s not clear, they argue, whether the term is always being used to describe “sexual desire,” “sexual attraction,” or “sexual arousal,” noting that “sexual orientation and identity are understood not only in scientific and personal terms, but in social, moral, and political terms as well.” That’s true, and likewise, many people’s sexual orientations don’t fit neatly into discrete categories of heterosexuality, bisexuality, or homosexuality."

 

Very insightful. Outside having sex with the other, what does it actually mean to be a 'man' or a 'woman'?

 

I don't think sexuality or sexual 'orientation' is as clear cut as people tend to portray. Even if you are attracted to the opposite sex, you may still feel challenged by and/or compare yourself to other members of the same sex. We are generally quite intelligent beings, which makes or social structures and relationships very complex and diverse.

 

Additionally, in the drive for an almost dogmatic like productivity we have also built an ever increasingly competitive environment where we are constantly urged to look a certain way, seek specific behaviours and avoid others. All the while we can forget how naturally strange and diverse being a human actually is.

 

If you've ever seen the film "Latter Days", one of the best lines imo is when the kid asks his mother, "What if it's not something I did? What if it's who I am?". The mother has no answer other than to smack him, because no other answer was possible for her.

 

I've never understood the concept of "defending" marriage (or anything else for that matter) by denying it to 30 million law-abiding Americans, or even the concept of "objection" to gay people. If person A is gay, does what person B, or even what people B, C, D, E and F think about it, make any difference to person A's sexuality? What utter stupidity is this? 95% of us know exactly who we are and never change our entire lives, and as a society we have provisions for officially objecting to any activity, namely by making laws against it, and on this basis most civil rights can be denied including recognition of marriage. But short of criminal activity, which homosexuality no longer is in our country, no legal justification exists to deny 14th and 5th Amendment enforcement to any citizen of our country. Not even one of us.

Edited August 27, 2016 by TheMastersSon

[HeyYou]

Please explain to me how either amendment applies to which restroom you want to use.

[TheMastersSon]

This partially answers your question:

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lgbt-idUSKCN1112F1

 

Part of NC's law has already been overturned, on Title IX grounds, and Title IX's major purpose is to guarantee due process and equal protection for specific minority groups.

 

In fact, only one country in the world (South Africa) includes sexual orientation as an explicitly protected class in its federal constitution, and as a direct result, that country is one of the few that hasn't had to deal with relentless pressure from religious and other groups to bash the LGBT community. Excuse me, I mean eliminate and restrict human and civil rights for LGBT people. My point is that imo sexual orientation (and pregnancy status, for abortion rights) need to be added as protected classes to Title IX of our Civil Rights Act. IMO doing so now will save a lot of lives and infinite amounts of stupidity in the long-term.

 

A more specific answer to your question is that, as mentioned earlier, nobody should be enslaved their entire lives to an incorrect gender decision made at their births by somebody else. That's clearly a violation of due process and equal protection.

Edited August 28, 2016 by TheMastersSon