Nintii Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) This is very interesting indeed and I'm sure that I can learn a lot from it, I most definitely will be watching it over and over.None of us have "arrived" and know everything, and I'm always open to further education and input. However, having said that, it's going to be extremely interesting to see all of the unemotional, carefully constructed, logical, and scientific answers that will henceforth be made. I can't wait. Edited August 19, 2011 by Nintii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balagor Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 This is good. Just loved "the excluded midle" example. We see that a lot here. 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) However, having said that, it's going to be extremely interesting to see all of the unemotional, carefully constructed, logical, and scientific answers that will henceforth be made. I can't wait. The thing with logical fallacies, you can point them out in peoples arguments all day long, it still doesn't really do anything if the subject is complex, takes reading even 1 or 2 books on the subject- there is simply no way to actually convey a pov that has taken years of study into a subject to someone ignorant on the subject, in such a format as internet message boards. Especially if it is an opinion rather than a simple representation of facts. I have few subjects in mind that are completely dismissed by intelligent people because they do not possess the knowledge, or they are otherwise biased against actually being interested enough to actually learn the first thing on the subject before saying something ignorant about it. And let's face it, there are a lot of those subjects out there, and there are only so many subjects that a single person can be truthfully competent in. Most people probably already know quite a bit about logical fallacies, and just because there is a newer youtube video of someone running through the collection, won't make people a whole lot smarter or better debaters in any given subject. Unless you were being sarcastic, then I have to commend you because my Brit filter didn't pick up on that and I just got stealth bombed Edited August 19, 2011 by Ghogiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintii Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 However, having said that, it's going to be extremely interesting to see all of the unemotional, carefully constructed, logical, and scientific answers that will henceforth be made. I can't wait. The thing with logical fallacies, you can point them out in peoples arguments all day long, it still doesn't really do anything if the subject is complex, takes reading even 1 or 2 books on the subject- there is simply no way to actually convey a pov that has taken years of study into a subject to someone ignorant on the subject, in such a format as internet message boards. Especially if it is an opinion rather than a simple representation of facts. I have few subjects in mind that are completely dismissed by intelligent people because they do not possess the knowledge, or they are otherwise biased against actually being interested enough to actually learn the first thing on the subject before saying something ignorant about it. And let's face it, there are a lot of those subjects out there, and there are only so many subjects that a single person can be truthfully competent in. Most people probably already know quite a bit about logical fallacies, and just because there is a newer youtube video of someone running through the collection, won't make people a whole lot smarter or better debaters in any given subject. Unless you were being sarcastic, then I have to commend you because my Brit filter didn't pick up on that and I just got stealth bombed Actually Ghogiel, I was pretty much hoping for a bite ... darn .... Nevertheless, as I did say, I'm always open to learn and so topics that are new don't phase me, if it's something I don't know, I've got time and google.So bring them on an let's have church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZ1029 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) When I post my opinions without facts, I get attacked for not having information. If I make posts with facts and logic, I get attacked for not realizing it is a opinion thread.Do what I do. Post so much information people just assume it's right and don't bother to check behind half of it. I tend to think most of it is right, but could, for all I know, be highly prone to error. It's not what you say, it's how you say it and whether people believe it. Plus, it's fun to delete emotions entirely and argue cold, hard facts. That really makes people mad when you tell them that something like 50-60% of people aren't worth the expenses they incur. Also, using believable but not necessarily accurate statistics also make for great debates. Also, debating while on narcotics. That's where the real talent shines.EDIT: On narcotics, not in them. Edited August 23, 2011 by RZ1029 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconix Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Sounds like you're more concerned with "winning" an argument, whereas I'm more concerned with deducing truth, and helping others to see the truths that I have found. Winning vs losing is an outsiders perspective. When I "lose" an argument, the truth is that I won better insight into the truth of the world, assuming that I'll concede victory and adopt their position on the topic... How many people do you see do that around here? Edited August 23, 2011 by draconix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZ1029 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I wouldn't hold an opinion I don't think is right, and without solid proof behind my thinking. Therefor, in my mind, I am correct and have no reason to give ground. I am closed-minded and judgmental but not racist, sexist or anything like that, I hate all people and maintain an equal level of cynicism about all people groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconix Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 If my opinion differs from yours though, and I am equally hard-headed, we match wits and determine who's stands up to scrutiny longer. It is only by being able to admit defeat, and change your opinion when you are truly defeated, that will keep you from being wrong again. Learning about fallacies such as the ones in the first post, keeps us from falling for the tricks of people who aren't interested in truth, or simply don't know any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZ1029 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Truth is entirely relative, though, much like good and evil. You can make anything say anything so long as you twist things around the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Do what I do. Post so much information people just assume it's right and don't bother to check behind half of it. I tend to think most of it is right, but could, for all I know, be highly prone to error.Proof by verbosity is a logical fallacy. True story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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