marharth Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Views on immigration reform and such. Made a new topic since the one on border violence got completely hijacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconix Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) I believe that the only people in America who aren't "illegals" are the native Americans that managed not to be slaughtered by us in the 400 years since Europeans "settled" in the US. Our founding fathers were illegal immigrants, or the great-great-anchor-babies there-of. Therefore, by today's standards, they had no rights in this country, let alone the power to set up a valid form of government with laws that determine who can and cannot live here. The only people in America who can determine what is and is not illegal immigration are the Native Americans and their descendants, who have the only rightful deed to this land. This would have to of course extend to Native Americans in Mexico as well, since our borders are only an arbitrary line drawn by an invalid government... Edited August 23, 2011 by draconix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZ1029 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 The problem with your logic is that the Native Americans/Indians/whatever never considered themselves the owners of the land to begin with. So... people pretty much just claimed land that people were squatting on, then cleared them out in a brutal and violent way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconix Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If they were the first people to live here, and so far as our Archaeologists have been able to find, they were, then the rule of "finders keepers" is what gave them the rights to this land initially. They didn't have to "take possession" of this land from any other humans, so it was available for them take for their own, rightfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) If they were the first people to live here, and so far as our Archaeologists have been able to find, they were, then the rule of "finders keepers" is what gave them the rights to this land initially. They didn't have to "take possession" of this land from any other humans, so it was available for them take for their own, rightfully.So when the Sioux took over the lands of the Pawnee, that was OK because they were all just Indians? Just following your logic down the road. By that token the English should return their land to the Welsh since they were the surviving Britons from the Roman era? Too bad you can't find any Neanderthals to return Europe to while your at it. Occupation by right of conquest is as old as civilization, we took the continent by fair means and foul and it's ours now. Edited August 23, 2011 by Aurielius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDGameArt Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I believe that the only people in America who aren't "illegals" are the native Americans that managed not to be slaughtered by us in the 400 years since Europeans "settled" in the US. Our founding fathers were illegal immigrants, or the great-great-anchor-babies there-of. Therefore, by today's standards, they had no rights in this country, let alone the power to set up a valid form of government with laws that determine who can and cannot live here. The only people in America who can determine what is and is not illegal immigration are the Native Americans and their descendants, who have the only rightful deed to this land. This would have to of course extend to Native Americans in Mexico as well, since our borders are only an arbitrary line drawn by an invalid government...If there were ever an example of comparing apples to oranges... But hell, maybe your right. Lets just disband this complete failure of a corrupt country and all drown our selfs in the ocean. Or oh wait... Maybe we have something a little special here, just maybe. After all "immigrants" flock here from allover the world, and other countries model themselves after the U.S. because? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greywaste Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 As for US immigration, just try getting in as a European unless you have a crazy amount of luck, lots of cash or are a very well educated specialist.I'd be willing to wear a tag for instance to prevent me just going underground if it meant I got a shot at finding work and residence. Anyway, lets try and keep this current and free of demagoguery please : you know who you are. Marharth : It's your thread, if you don't want it shut down or pointlessly sidetracked, tell people to stop going OT and perhaps PM a mod if they do keep doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 From an unrelated thread. :D Looks like you too are nothing more than a freaking grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-anchorbaby, just like me huh?Who's land do you suppose you're living on? Just because some FOBs from Europe decided to set up some sort of government here, you think that government is somehow valid because it's been here for a whopping 200 years? Do you have any idea how old European nations have been around? And yes, you are a hypocrite for the stance that you are taking on this. You were born into this world with the proverbial silver spoon up your butt because you were born in the states, but what have you done to earn the right to live here? Why should they have to do anything more than you did besides just coming into existence in the US? EDIT: In addition, your comment about the illegals coming here and not contributing anything is just shy of using the phrase "Lazy Mexican." You're assuming that they come here to mooch rather than to work, which is clearly not the case based on the way they're "taking all our jobs!" as claimed by many proponents of your side of the debate. The fact of the matter is they work harder and longer hours for less money than most Americans will. They are probably America's only hope to regain some of our debt from China. If it were up to the fat, lazy Americans, we'd just spend more and dig deeper into debt. Nope. We took this land the old fashioned way. Conquest. We had the better weapons, better organization, more manpower, so, we won. Your reasoning is not sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconix Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Conquest eh? I guess I missed the part in History class where the Mayflower laid siege to Plymouth Rock against the massing horde of native warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I've got Cherokee blood in me, my grandmother on my mom's side is mostly native. Does that make me more American than my father who doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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