Dissapointed?

[jedimembrain]

You guys got to remember simple is usually good. Complexity is bad. The best way to solve this is the interface is simple but the background and every other detail is complex. Like an OS. Let the game do the annoying stuff for you. This is how Skyrim is doing it.

So you want a simple Call of Duty style game in TES world with "press x to do awesome"?

 

now now .. thats way to far .. no one is saying that o_O .. cod insults are a simply agro way to communicate your issue with complexity vs needless complexity

[Fatalmasterpiece]

@Alcrin

 

Yeah, I played an archer in both, acrobatics was essential for not getting myself killed. I maxed it out as soon as I could. However when I played a warrior or mage on some occassions, I didn't bother with it. In Oblivion you could turn in mid air, attack and even use the block button to do a barrel roll, which was really fun and useful as an archer to avoid taking hits.

[Lowk]

Rename thread title to "Change is bad." :armscrossed:

 

This is honestly turning into a discussion of "why we liked Morrowind the best..."

 

I understand the trepidation from the pen-and-paper side, but this is an awful lot of complaining for (1) a game that's not out yet, and (2) a game on which we don't have all the relevant concrete info. Wait until you've played it before you decide its "oversimplified" systems are beneath you. If all else fails, mods are your friend!

[AltreU]

Acrobatics definitely had it's uses and I was one of those people that did like looking at my "spread sheet" of skills. I would've had a lot of difficulty moving around some traps if not for my acrobatics skill.

[DunmerDruid]

@DunmerDruid-While they did take the actual attributes out, (most of) the benefits are still conferred by the health, magicka, and stamina stats. We talked about it in another thread, but I'm sure that it's been confirmed that raising your stamina slightly increases jump height and either run speed when sprinting or overall movement speed. It might do both, I'm not exactly sure. I think it was Camonna that said it. I did like having a variety of attributes to level, but I think that as long as they don't reduce the number of skills any further, the game should be ok.

 

Overall, I paid too much money to be disappointed with the game, so if it does suck, I'll just fool myself into believing otherwise.

 

lol

 

im glad to hear that stamina might affect jump height / run speed.... this is the first i've heard of this and i hope its true

 

I hope they have fortify attribute and fortify skill spells again... which for now i'll convince myself that they are included

 

It seems as though my gravest concern has been laid to rest.... thanks AltreU

[antonkr]

Rename thread title to "Change is bad." :armscrossed:

 

This is honestly turning into a discussion of "why we liked Morrowind the best..."

 

I understand the trepidation from the pen-and-paper side, but this is an awful lot of complaining for (1) a game that's not out yet, and (2) a game on which we don't have all the relevant concrete info. Wait until you've played it before you decide its "oversimplified" systems are beneath you. If all else fails, mods are your friend!

Mods are in perfect world meant to be added gameplay to give you more hours to the gameplay. To give you more value of the game over time. They are not meant to fix the developer's interest in holding your hand and making the game not be the sequel to the original, adding some gameplay mechanics that the people there from the beginning would find interesting. Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion and the upcoming Skyrim all play differently and someone that might have found Daggerfall appealing might have hated Morrowind, or someone that LOVED Morrowind might have got upset that the spears were left out in Oblivion as it was his favorite weapon. New people will come and leave the series as the players are eventually outburned and missused. So perhaps Elder Scrolls 7 if that will ever come to be, might not have modding tools and be a multiplayer arena run-around-spam-spells sort of game. Which will have appeal to some people, but those that played Morrowind, and Oblivion would just hate it.

[CamonnaTong]

You guys got to remember simple is usually good. Complexity is bad. The best way to solve this is the interface is simple but the background and every other detail is complex. Like an OS. Let the game do the annoying stuff for you. This is how Skyrim is doing it.

So you want a simple Call of Duty style game in TES world with "press x to do awesome"?

There is no real middle in complex and simple.

 

That is really unrelated and well in tech terms isn't true. There are ways to have something complex and put it into simplicity. Vice-versa. Perhaps you forgot about the Dodge addition in Oblivion. That has complexity in it. But is simple nonetheless.

[antonkr]

You guys got to remember simple is usually good. Complexity is bad. The best way to solve this is the interface is simple but the background and every other detail is complex. Like an OS. Let the game do the annoying stuff for you. This is how Skyrim is doing it.

So you want a simple Call of Duty style game in TES world with "press x to do awesome"?

There is no real middle in complex and simple.

 

That is really unrelated and well in tech terms isn't true. There are ways to have something complex and put it into simplicity. Vice-versa. Perhaps you forgot about the Dodge addition in Oblivion. That has complexity in it. But is simple nonetheless.

What I am trying to explain is, at least in Elder Scrolls series, there are always people leaving the series when the new game is too simple. Too not much like their first game, and people joining the series when perhaps Morrowind was hard for them and they found Oblivion easier and more fun. You would never be able to satisfy all parties

[Ghogiel]

I'm going to be disappointed in several ways I expect. Mainly modding related hiccups. Also several technical choices because of hardware limitations have pissed me off. but I expect both of these anyway, so I am well prepared. It is what it is.

 

Generally the design is so much stronger in this game compared to F3 Ob and even MW it's just not even worth debating. The artwork is much better in all areas. I dunno what I would think if I didn't know what I was doing in that department of game design. But really I have no gripes about any of the art design and execution so far, I only moan about DXT artefacts and alpha test on beards, in what others might say 'low res'. :biggrin:

 

A few foot slidey moments in some animations, but quite forgiveable on the whole.

 

um, yeah that sneak arrow attack. WTF. The guy should have at least tried ducking.. and really it isn't a limitation, it's either a design choice, :confused: , or it is slacking.

 

The complexity vs simplification issue is not straight forward imo. Good design is key here. I see texture replacers that supposedly add more detail and make the texture better, when in reality they add more noise and over contrast everything, ultimately damaging it, it makes the texture chaotic and headachey. Your eyes are overloaded with crap, and once that is done to a whole scene, sure it is higher res, but it looks worse.

Complexity in the actual game systems can be something like that. If it is drawn back to it's fundamental, then it can be built upon.

 

Actually I very much love that BGS actually reinvents the TES game systems with each new game, or at least extensively overhauls them. I HATE the same s*** over and over, some franchises get the same game so many times in a row... :confused: . This experimentation makes BGS one of the more exciting big developers for me.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Ghogiel

[Thoreai]

Im also worried about the AI...that vid with the orc was very dissapointing.

 

I like that Beth is supporting the modding community but sometimes i cant help but feel it is becouse they fix things for them that they werent able to do or didnt had time.

 

Pretty sure the AI and pathfinding willl be exactly like in oblivion...i really would like to see one day an npc that would be able to jump when confronted with an obstacle on their way...

 

Im trying to tell myself when seeing the vid that its not the final build we see there, but looking at the Ai being already like that...im concerned.