What are people entitled to?

[HeyYou]

I would argue that 'inalienable' rights, cannot be granted..... they should be inherent. But, that is a fallacy as well.

[Ghogiel]

I think there has to be an agreement for them to exist. ie granting each other the rights.

[HeyYou]

I think there has to be an agreement for them to exist. ie granting each other the rights.

 

So, any rights you have aren't granted by your 'creator', as it were, they are granted by the society in which you live. A perk of being born in the right place.

[AlexxEG]

I think there has to be an agreement for them to exist. ie granting each other the rights.

If we ignore the government for a second, I would say you grant other rights, because you want them aswell.

And when you violate someones rights, you kinda abandon your right(s?) aswell. (Knowingly or not.)

[Ghogiel]

Yeah I guess.

 

Maybe I have the right to breath earth's air or something. :unsure:

 

Yeah I don't know, It's back to a man being born in a vacuum, he has no need for rights and is completely free from being bound to any morality. But as soon as there are 2 people, coexistence requires some sort of limitations on behaviour. ie one man can swing his arms and fists about all he wants, but the fist stops at the edge of the others nose. So as long as there is mutual agreement, and everyone respects that, everyone gets along. Contract may vary, batteries not included.

 

I think there has to be an agreement for them to exist. ie granting each other the rights.

If we ignore the government for a second, I would say you grant other rights, because you want them aswell.

And when you violate someones rights, you kinda abandon your right(s?) aswell. (Knowingly or not.)

Yeah. Except you can't really assume that the agreement is actually always fair.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Ghogiel

[AlexxEG]

I think there has to be an agreement for them to exist. ie granting each other the rights.

If we ignore the government for a second, I would say you grant other rights, because you want them aswell.

And when you violate someones rights, you kinda abandon your right(s?) aswell. (Knowingly or not.)

Yeah. Except you can't really assume that the agreement is actually always fair.

 

That's true.

[ginnyfizz]

I would argue that 'inalienable' rights, cannot be granted..... they should be inherent. But, that is a fallacy as well.

 

That's the whole point, inalienable rights are inherent, innate. The fact that governments will from time to time trample on them and try to suppress them does not make that a fallacy. After all, there have been a number of successful revolutions in support of them, so it can be done, though it might involve bloodshed at times.

[HeyYou]

I would argue that 'inalienable' rights, cannot be granted..... they should be inherent. But, that is a fallacy as well.

 

That's the whole point, inalienable rights are inherent, innate. The fact that governments will from time to time trample on them and try to suppress them does not make that a fallacy. After all, there have been a number of successful revolutions in support of them, so it can be done, though it might involve bloodshed at times.

 

My point is though, that there is no such thing is inalienable rights. Any rights that you want, and then want to keep, you will have to fight for from time to time. That doesn't make them "inalienable", that just makes them something you want, that you feel is worth fighting for. You aren't really 'entitled' to anything at all. You have what the current powers will give you, or, what you are willing to fight for.

[Ghogiel]

I even much prefer the idea that rights are not innate. It gives me a fuzzy feeling that people might actually of their free will, mutually grant each other a certain level of rights and freedoms. None of this out of thin air birth right malarkey, but a conscious decision to be compassionate and not cause suffering of others.

 

Now if only that really were true... There are a few things still spoiling it.

[HeyYou]

I even much prefer the idea that rights are not innate. It gives me a fuzzy feeling that people might actually of their free will, mutually grant each other a certain level of rights and freedoms. None of this out of thin air birth right malarkey, but a conscious decision to be compassionate and not cause suffering of others.

 

Now if only that really were true... There are a few things still spoiling it.

 

To me, that's called "Respect". Everyone gets different levels of it. I respect other people by not abusing their property, or person. Ya want more than that? Gotta EARN it.