What are people entitled to?

[Ghogiel]

It is that, rights aren't worth anything without respect.

[Aurielius]

I would argue that 'inalienable' rights, cannot be granted..... they should be inherent. But, that is a fallacy as well.

 

That's the whole point, inalienable rights are inherent, innate. The fact that governments will from time to time trample on them and try to suppress them does not make that a fallacy. After all, there have been a number of successful revolutions in support of them, so it can be done, though it might involve bloodshed at times.

 

My point is though, that there is no such thing is inalienable rights. Any rights that you want, and then want to keep, you will have to fight for from time to time. That doesn't make them "inalienable", that just makes them something you want, that you feel is worth fighting for. You aren't really 'entitled' to anything at all. You have what the current powers will give you, or, what you are willing to fight for.

Just because you might actually have to fight for an inalienable right does not make it any less valid as a concept. The founding fathers saw these rights as something that all of us were entitled to. Since Parliament in Westminister was not according them to us, then revolt against the crown was a valid recourse to regain them, so we fought and guaranteed those rights to our citizens. Remember that the writers of the Declaration of Independence were attempting to justify insurrection to lawful authority to politically divided set of thirteen colonies of which at that point there were as many Loyalists as Patriots. It was an attempt to frame a legal justification for the war that would inevitably follow it's adoption with the most successful powerful professional armed force in the world. Nothing of true value is ever really cost free.

[HeyYou]

So, basically, what we have is someone else's word twisting to justify rebellion. :D That's cool. Still, its just words on a page, that does not necessarily imply that they are a universal truth.

 

And yes, I DO appreciate the effort they went to, so that I could be where I am today. :D

[Ghogiel]

It's nice and all, but at the end of the day, these rights come about because a society decided they wanted them and only exist in society granting them. Edited September 19, 2011 by Ghogiel

[Aurielius]

So, basically, what we have is someone else's word twisting to justify rebellion. :D That's cool. Still, its just words on a page, that does not necessarily imply that they are a universal truth.

 

And yes, I DO appreciate the effort they went to, so that I could be where I am today. :D

Most of the writers were lawyers or trained in civil law, what else would you expect from a collection of them? :whistling:

[HeyYou]

So, basically, what we have is someone else's word twisting to justify rebellion. :D That's cool. Still, its just words on a page, that does not necessarily imply that they are a universal truth.

 

And yes, I DO appreciate the effort they went to, so that I could be where I am today. :D

Most of the writers were lawyers or trained in civil law, what else would you expect from a collection of them? :whistling:

 

Got me there......... :D

[ffa1mf]

[greywaste]

That's cool. Still, its just words on a page, that does not necessarily imply that they are a universal truth.

I see your point and I agree largely but I still think there's definately something to be said for the "feeling those rights are innate" concept especially when looking at just how well known the US constitution is (at least in name, essence and basics anyway) outside the USA let alone inside.

Look too at the amount of differing cultures that have protected free speech (in theory at least :tongue: )or a desire for it in their countries.

[marharth]

Maybe I am just confused.

 

Let me get this clear for a second.

 

1. If you are born in Saudi Arabia, you receive the same rights as someone born in the USA?

 

2. Seeing as most people are born with a sense of morality, is that the same thing as having rights?

 

 

What I fail to understand is why people here are saying rights are not granted by a government or other men. If they are not granted by other men, who grants them? The sense of morality does not give rights, it just gives humanity a general idea of what their rights should be. Nothing is given to you until there is a agreement upon what parts of morality should be made into a right, which would mean other men granted you these rights.

[Balagor]

No one gives you rights. With morale comes responsability. You will have to take care for your cultural values, your common morale. You must follow certain rules in the "clan". Doing so makes you "accepted", gives you rights.

 

My 2 cents