grannywils Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 @dazzerfong said: "There are no ostriches in Australia except in zoos...........they're called emus" Actually ostriches and emus are two different birds, but why did you tell me this? The ostrich is the world's largest living bird and is native to South Africa, and the Emu is the second largest flightless bird and can be found in Australia. And then of course we have the Rhea from South America (a bit smaller), but they have spurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 A debate on ostriches just started, this is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 @dazzerfong said: "There are no ostriches in Australia except in zoos...........they're called emus" Actually ostriches and emus are two different birds, but why did you tell me this? The ostrich is the world's largest living bird and is native to South Africa, and the Emu is the second largest flightless bird and can be found in Australia. And then of course we have the Rhea from South America (a bit smaller), but they have spurs.Well they might all be considered varmints in their respective habitats if that is of any help. :confused: But I am reasonably sure that my 22 is not enough for any of them, sounds like my Krag 30-40 is needed, are any of those varmints bothering you in New Mexico?....will be right down. I'll shoot them if you cook them. :whistling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfDeadguy Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 It's a funny thing... every time a gun debate thread pops up, it has interesting discourse for five or six pages then turns into crap. Everything in the past few pages has either been completely off-topic or in the vein of "OMG AK-47!"- which advances nothing but sensationalist headlines. Fully automatic weapons are irrelevant. I know of nowhere that such weapons are legally available to citizens without heaps of paperwork and more extensive background checks than you'd go through to become a police officer. Fully automatic weapons are used in crime... hardly ever, considering that the "other gun" category includes far more readily available semi-automatic, pump action, and other firearms. Here's a much more comprehensive assessment, assuming you've got the patience to look through all states and territories. The consistent trend is towards handguns, which are concealable. As an example, in 2009 (the 2010 ATF stats came up password protected; I was unable to obtain them) my home state of New Jersey saw ~3200 handguns of various types recovered from criminals, 748 semi-automatic or manual-action rifles, fewer than 600 shotguns, and a whopping 11 automatic weapons. Wow. These things sure are ravaging our streets. What about Maryland (including Baltimore)? More than 4300 handguns, nearly 1500 semi-auto/manual-action rifles, 1241 shotguns, and... 12 automatics. Gosh, what an epidemic of crime involving those scary machine guns! What about Washington, DC? 1356 combined handguns, 164 non-automatic rifles, 169 shotguns, and five whole automatics! Here's an important thing to note: DC is a single city while MD and NJ are whole states. That one city accounts for more guns recovered from criminals than one third of my state does, and we've got three of the most violent cities in the country up here. NJ is already pretty strict on guns; DC is positively Draconian... for all the good it's done them. I completely agree that if one can't stop criminals from having guns then it follows that the populace must be equally armed as a deterrent. Genies can't be stuffed back into their bottles. This particular genie was uncorked several thousand years ago in China and changed the face of the world several hundred times, toppling empires down through the ages every time somebody came up with a better way of launching things out of tubes. A bunch of lawyers and politicians looking to make a name for themselves by being 'tough on crime' aren't exactly going to intimidate a juggernaut of technological advancement that's been rolling since before their country had a name. Firearms won't go away until somebody invents an affordable, concealable death ray... and then there will be debates over those instead. Gun bans do, eventually, affect the number of guns available to criminals. However, guns do not make people commit crimes. Take away the guns and you still have the same crimes, committed with different tools but committed nonetheless. It's time for folks to stop pressing a failed experiment in civilian disarmament and move on to exploring other possibilities. By the way, to the pro gun folks... try not to pass on bad information. The whole bit about shotguns being unable to penetrate walls is utter bunk; anything that can penetrate a chest cavity or a skull is certainly capable of penetrating interior walls. For the antis who'll want to use that for ammunition (pun intended), less-lethal ammo is exactly that. A rubber slug is more or less a haymaker thrown by means of a gun instead of a fist. A person who wouldn't be put down with one punch likely won't be incapacitated by one less-lethal round of ammo either. Stopping power is not a function of impact energy, it is a function of tissue damage. Maybe your guy will be cowed by a few really nasty bruises. Maybe the only thing that'll make him give up is blood loss. I think I've said about all I can without going in circles; exit thread, stage right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Most of the folks taking about shotguns for home defense were more concerned about their neighbors. After all, you KNOW where the clear fields of fire are in your own house. You don't have the vaguest idea (probably) where your neighbors are. And using the recommended BIRD SHOT, Two layers of half inch drywall may not completely stop it, but, its going to do a hell of a lot less damage than a slug from my SKS would. (an inch of drywall wouldn't even slow it down appreciably.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grannywils Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 @Aurielius said: Well they might all be considered varmints in their respective habitats if that is of any help. :confused: But I am reasonably sure that my 22 is not enough for any of them, sounds like my Krag 30-40 is needed, are any of those varmints bothering you in New Mexico?....will be right down. I'll shoot them if you cook them. :whistling: Oh, please do not shoot them... We do have some farms here and in Arizona (both Ostrich and Emu, I believe). How 'bout if I just fix us up some eggs, and maybe some grits) special just for you...... :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) @Wrath_Of_Deadguy01Just how many exterior walls do you think a low velocity buck shot can pass through and continue on to penetrate a neighbors exterior wall? In least in the northeast where we have insulation in the outer walls in addition to stone or block as the main structural component I do not think that was misinformation in the slightest. I don't believe anyone mentioned interior walls where your point is somewhat valid but each an every obstacle in the path of the load would degrade penetration unless of course you are using slugs instead of buckshot which no one recommended. As for me, I have a loaded 9mm with alternate hollow point and glaser rounds for the fool that doesn't take the hint after being hit five times in a row with a shotgun thats this isn't going to go his way. Edited October 6, 2011 by Aurielius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghogiel Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) Gun bans do, eventually, affect the number of guns available to criminals. However, guns do not make people commit crimes. Take away the guns and you still have the same crimes, committed with different tools but committed nonetheless. It's time for folks to stop pressing a failed experiment in civilian disarmament and move on to exploring other possibilities. I think the fact that the UK has one of the lowest firearm homicide rates in the world, I don't think it would be fair to call it a failed experiment. At least for now, imo I don't think handguns are going to be beneficial in anyway. imo shotguns for home defence is going to do the job. Wow. These things sure are ravaging our streets. What about Maryland (including Baltimore)? More than 4300 handguns, nearly 1500 semi-auto/manual-action rifles, 1241 shotguns, and... 12 automatics. Gosh, what an epidemic of crime involving those scary machine guns! What about Washington, DC? 1356 combined handguns, 164 non-automatic rifles, 169 shotguns, and five whole automatics! That is more than I expected in a year tbh. My opinion is that there is a gun(and crime) problem in US. On that I am convinced, 2 sides have been represented, we'll have to agree to disagree on downplaying those stats. This link you provided basically sums up my experience of how readily available illegal weapons are: https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/arrest.txtIf it hadn't been clear by my pro control of handguns in the UK, handguns are the real issue, they are certainly far more available, cheaper, useful for criminal purposes, and just as deadly in the wrong has as any gun is. I don't advocate legalising them in the UK. I do agree with you about Pandora's box being opened, and at a certain point you have to admit any serious gun control doesn't do all that much if anything. Edited October 6, 2011 by Ghogiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Gun control is the ability to hit what you are aiming at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Gun control is the ability to hit what you are aiming at.Consecutively.....Consecutively....Consecutively..... :whistling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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