Ashton Silo choices? (SPOILER)

[marharth]

Some of the problems with the DLC are already mentioned. Here is what I think.

 

1. You launch a nuke for no god damn reason, having no idea what it will do. Need a mod to have new route or something because that is ridiculous.

 

2. What if your siding with Mr. House or Yes Man? It would be logical to nuke their trade routes to pretty much keep them away for life. War is war, its perfectly normal to attack trade routes that may cause civilian deaths. That being said, if your not siding with the NCR or Legion you should of just been able to say "go ahead" and not go anywhere at all after talking to him.

 

3. As said above, what if you kind of agree with Uyless after a certain point? I pretty much agreed with him to a certain extend after exiting the tunnel. Why do you have to go through a bunch of dialogue checks at the end? Why can't you just straight out say "I agree, launch the missiles."]

 

 

EDIT: There is a spoiler section ya know, you don't have to put spoiler in the title, just post it in that section.

Edited October 4, 2011 by marharth

[jetflightgirl]

I agree that launching the nuke for no reason was dumb. As is Ulysses practically ensuring that you're VERY close by the time he can set his plan in motion *AND* out for his plan.

 

As for agreeing with him... He does state that he plans to nuke the Mojave, including New Vegas and the Dam as well.

 

I guess with Ulysses, there's a very real chance that he's not "all there" anymore in the proverbial attic. If he was truly trying to create a new world, he most certainly wouldn't invite Courier Six, Lanius, Vulpes Inculta&his Frumentarii, Veteran Rangers, Mr. House's (potentially upgraded) Securitron army, The Lone Wanderer, Chosen One or any other exceptionally badass person/force to crash his party. Getting Courier Six, who has established a firm reputation as a badass, to deliver ED-E to him, almost smells of suicide-by-cop; hell, it'd be just that, if the nukes turned out to be duds and he knew about it.

 

Also, somewhat related, somewhat unrelated: why is everyone falling all over OWB? It wasn't all that good; it was one big Wild Wasteland DLC without being funny, plus the whole part about your character suddenly becoming an android with absolutely no forewarning or you having any say in it. The post-DLC Sink was admittedly a nice feature, but not worth it.

[Gopher]

I agree that launching the nuke for no reason was dumb. As is Ulysses practically ensuring that you're VERY close by the time he can set his plan in motion *AND* out for his plan.

 

As for agreeing with him... He does state that he plans to nuke the Mojave, including New Vegas and the Dam as well.

 

I guess with Ulysses, there's a very real chance that he's not "all there" anymore in the proverbial attic. If he was truly trying to create a new world, he most certainly wouldn't invite Courier Six, Lanius, Vulpes Inculta&his Frumentarii, Veteran Rangers, Mr. House's (potentially upgraded) Securitron army, The Lone Wanderer, Chosen One or any other exceptionally badass person/force to crash his party. Getting Courier Six, who has established a firm reputation as a badass, to deliver ED-E to him, almost smells of suicide-by-cop; hell, it'd be just that, if the nukes turned out to be duds and he knew about it.

 

Also, somewhat related, somewhat unrelated: why is everyone falling all over OWB? It wasn't all that good; it was one big Wild Wasteland DLC without being funny, plus the whole part about your character suddenly becoming an android with absolutely no forewarning or you having any say in it. The post-DLC Sink was admittedly a nice feature, but not worth it.

 

I think OWB resonated because it was without doubt the funniest dialogue/quest in either FO3 or FNV. The start dialogue alone with the brains was worth the 10 dollars alone. And I just love the stealth armor talking to me. And it just had so many old sci fi movie references that it was literally Fallout at its purest and most distilled. Oh and it was non linear (like Point Lookout).

[lukertin]

How do I know that? I mean in the middle of the DLC I just opened a silo knowing a nuke would launch. No idea who it is really going to hit. No idea if it will just pop out 10 feet and explode in my face. Its nice that you tell me it does not hit anyone, but honestly, how did I know that when I pulled that lever? I didn't, so there is no way a good and intelligent character would have done what I did. I did it to progress a quest line, and thats it. I am about to do the showdown with Ulysses, but I already feel 'wrong'. This playthrough is just off now. My character is a grade A idiot or a psychopath (or both). I like neither option :(

1. You don't know. It's also the ENTIRE point of the DLC: a simple action you do may have unintended consequences that you cannot know from the outset.

2. The game immediately tells you where the nuke landed once it is launched...then you get to discuss it with Ulysses...then you can go there to explore...

 

I think you're kind of blowing this part of the dlc out of proportion.

[Gopher]

1. You don't know. It's also the ENTIRE point of the DLC: a simple action you do may have unintended consequences that you cannot know from the outset.

 

Exactly! That is excatly the problem right there. I dont know. It could wipe out millions. It could kill me. It could detonate and leave me alive but turn me into a ghoul. I just don't know. But I was fairly sure whatever happened would be something between bad and catastrophic. Actually I would say I was about 99% sure it was going to be bad. And so there is zero way I would have done it unless I was somewhat mentally challenged or a psychopath with possible suicidal tendancies. That is the entire flaw with this quest point and ultimately the entire story that unfolds in this DLC. The entire DLC, and actual story of the whole game, hinges on my character being as dumb as a post or insane, something my character most certainly was not. So in the end, the persona I had developed for the whole game, was apparantly not the right one for the Courier. I had been playing him all wrong but the game had not seen fit to tell me until now.

 

Blowing it out of proportion? Well the entire DLC was an epic fail when it comes to plot, because it uncovers some major and somewhat embarrasing plot flaws. It did not repair the damage done to FNV because of its lack of a good back story to the main protagonist (as in the previous 3 fallout games). And this complete lack of choice just hammers the last nail in the coffin. The only reasonable course of action at the silo was to turn around and take ED-E back to the Mojave and leave Ulysses stuck in the divide, unable to get what he really wanted. And had the game let me do that, had it let me transmit one final message to Ulysses before using my repair/science to jam him from ED-E and let him suffer in miserable self pity, then perhaps I would have liked it (or at least hated it less).

 

New Vegas is a good open game, much like Oblivion and Morrowind, with great side quests and dialogue. But its main protagonist and main back story do not hold a candle to the earlier Fallout games where the main character had friends, familty, a past, a home (usually he could not return to) and above all a motivating reason to leave the comfort of said home and push onwards. New Vegas lacked this completely, and the last DLC did nothing to fix that.

[ModelV]

Fallout 3 is the only Fallout game where the main protagonist had friends, family, and a past.Fallout 1 had just slightly more back story then New Vegas since you knew where you were from and Fallout 2 had a step more since you knew you were a descendant of the Vault Dweller.

 

The whole point of not having a back story is allow YOU the gamer to make a backstory that fits the character YOU want to play and i havent seen anything in the main story that would show The Courier to be "an idiot or psychopath".

Edited October 5, 2011 by ModelV

[Gopher]

Fallout 3 is the only Fallout game where the main protagonist had friends, family, and a past.Fallout 1 had just slightly more back story then New Vegas since you knew where you were from and Fallout 2 had a step more since you knew you were a descendant of the Vault Dweller.

 

The whole point of not having a back story is allow YOU the gamer to make a backstory that fits the character YOU want to play and i havent seen anything in the main story that would show The Courier to be "an idiot or psychopath".

 

Incorrect. Both Fallout 1 and 2 had friends and family. In Fallout 1 you basically play the whole game assuming you will live happily ever after with your friends and family back in your home vault. It probably has one of the strongest emotional anchors and backstories of any of the Fallout game. In fact Fallout 3 was very reminiscent of Fallout 1 in that you end up saving the vault but the people you still get kicked out after you save them.

 

And the problem with your idea of ME making the backstory is that the backstory (and in fact entire personality) of my courier was simply swept away by this final DLC. That is the probem with giving a character a backstory at the end of a game rather than the start. Anything I come up with is probably wrong. I am constantly trying to adjust my backstory to match new info I get. In the first 3 games you had all the info about your past (at least from a first person perspective) and you could develop your character as you saw fit from there. Good or evil? Tough guy or a ladies man? All up to you. YOU developed you character from there. But in New Vegas the game develops your character for you. It does. You cannot get away from the fact that in this DLC it literally forces you to be an thoughtless idiot so that it can tell you off for being a thoughtless idiot. That is pretty much the whole point of the DLC. To give you a new personality: The Thoughtless Idiot.

 

And as for not seeing what in the main story classifies him as an idiot or psychopath I could start at the beginning and be here quite some time, or point out that pretty much Ulysses confirms that you are a thoughtless idiot by everything you have done in the game so far, but I am focusing right now on the fact that he opened the silo doors. Unless he has psychopathic and slightly suicidal tendancies, I see no reason on earth why anyone with INT above 1 would open that door. None. To find Ulysses and ask him some questions? Release a nuke just to get some closure from a self absorbed whining guy with bad dreads and a face mask? And you had to know he wanted you there for some other reason than a chat and a fight. You literally had to be pretty dim to not suspect you were bringing something with you he needed for some dastardly plan.

 

So It just does not work. No matter what mental gymnastic I perform, the Courier is now damaged goods. I no longer care if he lives or dies. He is just another idiot who cannot resist the urge to push a button even when it has 'Press here to end the world'. He is the sort of person I loathe.

[ModelV]

No YOU ASSUMED that the Vault Dweller had family while I assumed that the Vault dweller was an orphan and his family died in a horrible bloody accident from a crazed Mister Handy because i had the Bloody Mess trait.

 

And ive never had to remake my character's backstory because of events that happen in the game because when i play i make choices that MY character would make which is what you do when you role play since this game isnt linear. Dont like any of the big factions or even Yes Man? Fine blow up Hoover Dam so they all leave and make sure to destroy the securitrons in the main vault. You have choices go make them.

 

And yes i see reasons to keep going on the DLC. Finding Ullysses and getting answers is reason enough for me if it isnt for you then thats your opinion and im done arguing with you.

[minngarm]

Model, his point is that the silo launch is the only option to progress that DLC, and thus forces you to change how your character would act.

 

As for the game telling you where it hits, thats you the player, not you the courier. The big difference here is that we have a mix of player types in NV, those that play NV, and those that play Courier Six. The only real difference being that those that play the Courier, try to immerse themselves as that character, and not write off poor scripts as a miss in game design.

 

Problem with the possibility of moding this, not only for the silo, but also for other ending options as youll find in other spoiler threads, is that you would have to rewrite not only at least half the DLC including speechs from Ulysseys. But also other parts of the wasteland and quests as well. It does feel like had they put a little more effort into reviewing their plotlines they could have wrote in proper options where needed to avoid such gaps as this one. But they did not, and this is what we have.

 

The only way I can rationalize the action to open that silo beyond playing a darker personality, is the realization that Ulysseys has not only set us up for the chip delivery, but also taken part (the depth of which in game would not yet be fully known) in other things that has resulted in the suffering of others, and the loss of life. Then the knowledge that whatever he left Big Mountain with brought him here, and whatever he came here for is likely not to bode well for the inhabitants of the wasteland. So we would have to stop and contemplate if we wish to press on, or turn back and leave him alone. Which now that I think about it, is probably what the writers were aiming for. They just have shitty delivery is all.

[Gopher]

No YOU ASSUMED that the Vault Dweller had family while I assumed that the Vault dweller was an orphan and his family died in a horrible bloody accident from a crazed Mister Handy because i had the Bloody Mess trait.

 

And ive never had to remake my character's backstory because of events that happen in the game because when i play i make choices that MY character would make which is what you do when you role play since this game isnt linear. Dont like any of the big factions or even Yes Man? Fine blow up Hoover Dam so they all leave and make sure to destroy the securitrons in the main vault. You have choices go make them.

 

And yes i see reasons to keep going on the DLC. Finding Ullysses and getting answers is reason enough for me if it isnt for you then thats your opinion and im done arguing with you.

 

First of all you talk about how the game is not linear, but as far as I can see the last DLC was exactly linear. Second of all you say I have choices, but you dont present me a single choice on the silo door. To me it looks like I either launch a nuke, or dont play the DLC. Not much of a choice really.

 

And were the answers you got from ulysses really worth it? If that nuke had landed on Vegas and wiped everyone out, would that have been ok for the answers you got from him at the end? Or some innocent city in what used to be enemy terrioty centuries ago? Because there is no way you could know that would not happen. You can point out that it did not hapen, but when you pulled that lever you had to know it was a real possibility. You had to put your answers above the lives of possibly thousands of innocents. And your character is ok with that? If so, all I can say is that the character you created for Fallout New Vegas is a full blown sociopath :)