Ashton Silo choices? (SPOILER)

[Borsek]

/Quote NCR ranger elite squad Sargeant

 

FFS, man, are you 9 years old or just a sissy? To open the door you have to launch the nuke. It makes sense in the story - the courier causing mass destruction without knowing it, and it f***ing badass! Good character or bad, doesn't matter. The good one assumes the silo doesn't work and the bad one hopes it does.

 

Nuke the damn marked men, who cares whether they live or die? You kill thousands of creatures and fiends, probably have the 'Apocalypse ain't got nothin' on me' perk, yet you whine like a 6 year old girl when your character HAS to accidentally launch a nuke to open a damn door and progress in the DLC... first, it's a game, not a RL decision to nuke a village; second, you nuke a bunch of evil mobs noone gives a flying tunneler about (except for your 6 year old little girl self, apparently); third, NUKES ARE COOL, mushroom clouds are the main reason for playing this game, ffs!

 

Oh, and let me open your mind a bit: If your good character doesn't open the silo and launch the nuke, ulysses nukes half of mojave anyway and thus, your character, by inaction, ends up doing more evil than good.

 

'Nuff said, now go and hug your damn radioactive dead trees, you damn, 2-centuries-too-late hippie!

 

/quote

Edited October 8, 2011 by Borsek

[minngarm]

/Quote NCR ranger elite squad Sargeant

 

FFS, man, are you 9 years old or just a sissy? To open the door you have to launch the nuke. It makes sense in the story - the courier causing mass destruction without knowing it, and it f***ing badass! Good character or bad, doesn't matter. The good one assumes the silo doesn't work and the bad one hopes it does.

 

Nuke the damn marked men, who cares whether they live or die? You kill thousands of creatures and fiends, probably have the 'Apocalypse ain't got nothin' on me' perk, yet you whine like a 6 year old girl when your character HAS to accidentally launch a nuke to open a damn door and progress in the DLC... first, it's a game, not a RL decision to nuke a village; second, you nuke a bunch of evil mobs noone gives a flying tunneler about (except for your 6 year old little girl self, apparently); third, NUKES ARE COOL, mushroom clouds are the main reason for playing this game, ffs!

 

Oh, and let me open your mind a bit: If your good character doesn't open the silo and launch the nuke, ulysses nukes half of mojave anyway and thus, your character, by inaction, ends up doing more evil than good.

 

'Nuff said, now go and hug your damn radioactive dead trees, you damn, 2-centuries-too-late hippie!

 

/quote

 

Did you even bother to try to read any of this thread? Every would be point you make has already been raised and countered previously. If your going to rant like some jet-addicted Brahampheliac at least have the common sense to read the damn thread and bring a valid point to the discussion.

[ModelV]

Did you even bother to try to read any of this thread? Every would be point you make has already been raised and countered previously. If your going to rant like some jet-addicted Brahampheliac at least have the common sense to read the damn thread and bring a valid point to the discussion.

 

And you call me an ass.

[Borsek]

 

Did you even bother to try to read any of this thread? Every would be point you make has already been raised and countered previously. If your going to rant like some jet-addicted Brahampheliac at least have the common sense to read the damn thread and bring a valid point to the discussion.

 

Yes, like the valid point you brought to the discussion with your post... at least I was on topic. Tard XD

[marharth]

It makes no sense to say "oh a shiny red button while I am next to a nuke silo, lets press it!"

[Gopher]

/Quote NCR ranger elite squad Sargeant

 

FFS, man, are you 9 years old or just a sissy? To open the door you have to launch the nuke. It makes sense in the story - the courier causing mass destruction without knowing it, and it f***ing badass! Good character or bad, doesn't matter. The good one assumes the silo doesn't work and the bad one hopes it does.

 

Nuke the damn marked men, who cares whether they live or die? You kill thousands of creatures and fiends, probably have the 'Apocalypse ain't got nothin' on me' perk, yet you whine like a 6 year old girl when your character HAS to accidentally launch a nuke to open a damn door and progress in the DLC... first, it's a game, not a RL decision to nuke a village; second, you nuke a bunch of evil mobs noone gives a flying tunneler about (except for your 6 year old little girl self, apparently); third, NUKES ARE COOL, mushroom clouds are the main reason for playing this game, ffs!

 

Oh, and let me open your mind a bit: If your good character doesn't open the silo and launch the nuke, ulysses nukes half of mojave anyway and thus, your character, by inaction, ends up doing more evil than good.

 

'Nuff said, now go and hug your damn radioactive dead trees, you damn, 2-centuries-too-late hippie!

 

/quote

 

Feel free to not post on any of my threads again unless you can learn to be remotely civil. I don't mind disagreement with my take on the story line, but this sort of childish name calling over a plot disagreement is ridiculous.

 

And no you did not open my mind with that, because I had no idea Ulysses was going to nuke the mojave, and I suspected he needed something from me anyway. And even had I thought he was going to nuke the Mojave, I also knew he would not do it without talking to me first. Basically it was pitifully obvious he needed the meeting with me way more than I with him.

 

And your point that 'it is just a game' and therefore my actions have no real world consequences proves my argument perfectly. That is exactly what I hated about this DLC. It made the game into a glorified arcade game where I was unable to immerse myself in the ROLE of my courier (without changing his character into a psycho or an idiot).

[Tefnacht]

Pretty much all your problems go away if you allow a small dose of suspension of disbelief here and simply accept that your character had absolutely no idea the button would launch a ICBM at a unknown target.

 

I can give you a few approaches why this isn't even that far fetched.

 

1.) To get to the Ashton silo, you already used a identical looking console inside the Hopeville silo to open a door. In the exact same way. ED-E unlocked the console, a suspicious looking lever rose out of it, you pulled it, the door opened.

Following the rule: “Don't touch any buttons in a missile silo”, and you knew you were inside a missile silo, you shouldn't even be at Ashton. How did you know the Hopeville silo was empty? That there would be no ICBM launch? Or that the whole thing wouldn't blow up in your face? Right. You didn't. You still pressed the button. Does that make you a psychopathic idiot?

 

2.) Ulysses never said anything about the Ashton silo being armed and “hot”. There are no notes. No hints. Only the quest is named: “The Launch” and there is a locked door with a pop-up message about “completing the launch sequence to open the door”. The button is labeled: “Open silo”, not “Launch nuke”.

Assuming your characters pip-boy does not have a quest screen and assuming the pop-up message was just for the players sake while the character just sees a securely locked door ... he has absolutely no hint that Ashton is armed.

 

3.) ICB missiles are not usually launched by the press of a single “red” button. It takes two operators working together, following a very strict protocol and they are located in a bunker way below the ground, not in a building on the surface overlooking the launch tube hatch. Stuff like that only happens in video games.

 

If you stop using hindsight and meta-gaming, allow for a little leeway, the unintended ICBM launch can be a very great character moment. You just wanted to unlock that door into the bunker and instead ... you have to watch in helpless horror as the carnage you unintentionally caused unfolds. You can feel guilty, reproach yourself for not thinking it through, cry, maybe arbitrary curse Ulysses for tricking you into doing it ... there are so many options.

 

Being “the good guy” or being hyper intelligent does not prevent you from making mistakes. S**t happens. The way to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Borsek]

No, what you're doing is whining. I wouldn't assume the silo is working, especially after seeing the state of the first one (everything broken and stuff). There is no actual indication that a nuke will launch given to the courier (ok, ok, you can guess it from the objects' names and the closed door, but it's not like there is a big red button called launch right there (it's a 200yo rusty dusty console); if you want your damn realism). I don't know if your character knows this already at this point in the plot, but the divide was already nuked once by the courier, say he assumes ALL the nukes have gone off (the actual rockets, not all warheads, obviously). What you're doing is something akin to whining at the beginning of dead money - where you get gassed... 'oh, but my character had a power helmet/rebreather/gas mask, the gas wouldn't have worked!' Accept that the nuke is a PLOT DEVICE! Even if we dismantle the importance of that nuke.... I know you get the point, but it's there to imply that you can do terrible things if you're ignorant of your surroundings - but imagine a courier, being chased by marked men and deathclaws - would you check if the ancient silo was still working, or would you slap the damn button and get some cover in the form of a bunker?

 

 

"And your point that 'it is just a game' and therefore my actions have no real world consequences proves my argument perfectly. That is exactly what I hated about this DLC. It made the game into a glorified arcade game where I was unable to immerse myself in the ROLE of my courier (without changing his character into a psycho or an idiot)."

 

Umm... You walk around wielding a laser pistol-ish detonator and detonate nuclear warheads from a max. distance of 50m (150ft for the fat). If anything, that is more bothersome and 'arcadish' than launching a nuke from a silo. Also, dunno about you, but my character has killed whole villages and army divisions, alone, with a machinegun. He has been shot/bitten thousands of times. How the hell can anything be MORE arcade-like than this?

 

I get it, you don't like having no other options to choose apart from pressing that button, this part sucked for you. You said that, and the world is trying to convince you that you should like the nuke. You don't. Whatever. I, for one, hated dead money and its clouds and ghost people and more-or-less-linear-but-extremely-confusing layout. And the fact that the caravan in HH dies, although my character is basically god with guns and was able to pick off the ambushers (the caravan members' heads exploded anyway). What you don't want to get is, that it's an important part of storytelling, and to be able to understand the whole thing, you must go through the stuff that bothers you.

 

Anyway, what you SHOULD have done, is one of the following:

 

-request mod that renames 'finish launch sequence' to 'open silo', thus your imaginary courier remains absolutely ignorant about the nature of the button he just pressed

-whine to the devs in the form of sending parcels of cat poo to their headquarters, labeled 'This is for the courier's mile!' (god knows they don't read the forums)

-if the game is not realistic/immersive enough for you, do this

 

What you should not have done is made a 4 page thread repeatedly convincing other people than yourself that the plot sucked because of the nuke. It didn't. I loved the nuke. Others loved the nuke. I think it fit, even if your character had 11 int and 12 per, I think it would still have fit. There are parts of the game and its numerous DLCs that don't fit MY character, yet I either avoid them or just accept the fact that all content won't appeal to everyone.

 

Either post a damn comment in the official forums, in the thread for LR feedback, or keep it to yourself. Your opinion matters as much as mine (in other words, it doesn't), and neither of them need to be discussed in a thread. Always remember: Opinions are like assholes - everybody has one, and all of them stink.

 

TL;DR: The post above has basically said what I said/tried to say.

"Being “the good guy” or being hyper intelligent does not prevent you from making mistakes. S**t happens. The way to hell is paved with good intentions." <- this

"If you stop using hindsight and meta-gaming, allow for a little leeway, the unintended ICBM launch can be a very great character moment." <- and this

 

In other words, if you're a good guy, launching the nuke is a mistake, just like pulling the ol' AMR's trusty trigger on Cesar's ass. The scene itself is important, as "you're condemned to repeat it", that is, unknowingly causing mass destruction and death, which is, as you find out sooner or later in the DLC, something you've already done in the divide.

 

P.S.: If you let Ulysses live, he mourns/QQs in the enterance of the DLC. You can talk to him about a lot of things, and through dialogue, you find out the courier's mile was not named after you only - he says you're both to blame, basically saying he knew you had to launch it to get to him - a.k.a. it was a trap set up by him. Kind of like father Elijah's collar. One of the main forces that drives humans/the courier is curiosity. Ulysses says so. Intelligent people tend to be more curious about the world (although curiosity killed the cat), therefore I don't think launching the nuke is stupid, just an honest mistake (think Chernobyl).

 

Also: "Really? My god I cannot believe how badly they have messed up on this DLC. Way too linear and cannot be completed in a 'good guy' playthrough. So basically I have to go back to the tunnel and forget I ever heard of Ulysses until I do an bad guy playthrough? Meh. I thought after Old World Blues they had figured it out and would stick with a winning formula. What a huge let down."

They said this DLC was going to be linear, you are just whining, proving the beginning of this post. The good guy playthrough has you sacrificing EDE to not nuke anyone. It's about nuking NCR/Legion, no one gives a s*** about the wildlife of the divide. TBH, I was kinda glad I got to mass murder some of those monstrosities.

Edited October 9, 2011 by Borsek

[Gopher]

No, what you're doing is whining. I wouldn't assume the silo is working, especially after seeing the state of the first one (everything broken and stuff). There is no actual indication that a nuke will launch given to the courier (ok, ok, you can guess it from the objects' names and the closed door, but it's not like there is a big red button called launch right there (it's a 200yo rusty dusty console); if you want your damn realism). I don't know if your character knows this already at this point in the plot, but the divide was already nuked once by the courier, say he assumes ALL the nukes have gone off (the actual rockets, not all warheads, obviously).

 

There you go with the insults again.

 

And I am sorry, but the game tells you that you have to open the silo door to finish the launch sequence, and that the door you need to walk through wont open until you do. And if you point out that your character could not figure that out, then explain to me why he bothered pulling that lever then? I mean that makes the courier ever dumber than I previously feared. He is now pulling random levers in a nuclear silo with zero reason whatsoever. But to be honest, you are seriously reaching anyway. Lets face it, you took one look at that console and it had 'PUSH TO NUKE' written all over it in giant neon letters. It could not have been more obvious if a fat man in a pink tutu had jumped up on the console and started to sing 'Armegedon is here again' and making suggestive nods to the launch lever :P

 

 

Umm... You walk around wielding a laser pistol-ish detonator and detonate nuclear warheads from a max. distance of 50m (150ft for the fat). If anything, that is more bothersome and 'arcadish' than launching a nuke from a silo. Also, dunno about you, but my character has killed whole villages and army divisions, alone, with a machinegun. He has been shot/bitten thousands of times. How the hell can anything be MORE arcade-like than this?

 

Then we do not get the same out of the Fallout games as the other does. I do not play this as an arcade game, I play it for the story. Just because the game is a sci-fi story does not excuse sloppy plot devices.

 

Either post a damn comment in the official forums, in the thread for LR feedback, or keep it to yourself.

 

I have no idea why you would think I would do that, or why I would agree not to post on the Nexus forums. It is like when I see a movie with horrible plot holes and I point them out to my friends, they dont tell me to write to the producer. They just chat with me about it. That is what we are doing here. Just chatting about stuff. Some of us even manage to do it politely :)

 

In other words, if you're a good guy, launching the nuke is a mistake, just like pulling the ol' AMR's trusty trigger on Cesar's ass. The scene itself is important, as "you're condemned to repeat it", that is, unknowingly causing mass destruction and death, which is, as you find out sooner or later in the DLC, something you've already done in the divide.

 

No. I WAS a good guy. Then I deliberately and accepting that what I was doing might kill me or thousands of innocents pulled the lever knowing that not only had I committed a act of unspeakable stupidity and selfishness, I was also probably falling right into the trap the whining Ulysses was setting for me. It was NOT a mistake. I literally was 99% sure a nuke would fly, and so was my character. There is no way round that. I cannot realistically tell myself that my intelligent Courier was unable to figure it out and still keep any respect for him. It was like all of a sudden I totally agreed with Ulysses and felt the Courier was a total git and deserved a bullet in the face. At that point immersion broke down and I left the story. The game did in fact become an arcade game for me too.

 

Now my courier is a collection of values on a computer and I didn't even bother finishing off the main quest after finishing Lonesome Road. That playthrough is over and unrecoverable.

 

They said this DLC was going to be linear, you are just whining, proving the beginning of this post. The good guy playthrough has you sacrificing EDE to not nuke anyone. It's about nuking NCR/Legion, no one gives a s*** about the wildlife of the divide. TBH, I was kinda glad I got to mass murder some of those monstrosities.

 

And again with the insults. And if they are going to make the game linear, they should not put in things that require you to be criminally stupid or criminally insane. I too did not like the linear nature of Dead Money, but nothing in that forced me to do something so stupid. I mean if Lonesome Road had made me fall through a ceiling and accidentally land on the launch button, then OK, I get it, its an accident (at least story wise).

 

Actually in my good playthrough I saved ED-E and nuked the legion. Just because I am intelligent does not mean I am a pascifist. And I felt good about launching that nuke.

[Bdthemag]

I honestly don't see why one small flaw in the story ruins it for you guys. If its really that important to you, just make up a reason why your character launched the nuke.