200 years on and technology is still the same

[Stormcrown]

This did not need to be revived from "02 October 2011"

 

A mod should lock this.

 

It's already been established.... PROBABLY 50 *BLEEPING* TIMES

 

They advance mainly in magic than in technology.

 

Why make a gun to shoot your enemy from a distance when you can just shoot a fireball at them?

This is something I've often thought about with games like this that wind the time on so much. Why is it after 200 years the technology is exactly how it is in Oblivion and Morrowind. All the armour and swords are made of the same stuff, the architecture is probably the same as well. They havent invented more advanced weapons such as crossbows, cannons (of course these would need gun powder), catapults, trebuchets, etc.

 

Im not saying they should have cars and guns (cant think of anything I'd want less in an elder scrolls game), but it seems to me that they make very little progress as time moves on. Especially considering the fact that they have magic to make life even easier. I know they may not progress the same way as we have, but they managed to get to stone castles, swords, bows and armour so it seems reasonable to expect them to advance somewhat.

 

I personally would rather them just wind time on a few years and not change much in terms of in game technology. But if they advance it 200 years it does beg the question of why they don't progress.

 

I just wondered what other peoples views are on this, and am I missing something? Has magic made them lazy? :biggrin:

 

Technology didn't change for thousands of years in real history...Why would you assume that it would change in Tamriel in a few hundred? Especially when they DO have magick to help them along?

:facepalm: The history of the Elder Scrolls is not the one of mankind, so it is rather pointless to assume they would run along a similar course. Events and situations mark the reason and direction of progression and as they are different they will not go on the same course. But if you really have to....mankind took a long road as well. The first sword they have found is from around 3300BC, the first crossbow is from around 500BC and the first piece of gunpowder around 1400 years after that. That means we took around 2800 years to create a crossbow last time (Yes I know they had crossbows in Morrowind, but it was a nice comparison.) and 1400 years more before we could possible shoot anything using gunpowder. 200 years is nothing and as we're loosing more weapons as they're progressing games I doubt we would get anything extra.

 

Also, Magic :P.

Technology doesn't always advance at the same pace we see in our modern world. In other fantasy or scifi worlds technology seems to have reached it's apex for that culture like in Starwars they have relatively the same technological level after a 4000 year span. There are other cases of technology digressing and repeating like in Mass Effect once civilization reaches a certain level it is wiped out to start again from square one time and time again for millions of years. There are also real world examples of technology digressing or progressing at an extremely slow pace. After the fall of the Roman Empire technology went backwards for nearly 800 years during the Dark Ages and before written history is took early humans nearly 80,000 years to realize if you put a sharpened rock on the end of a stick you can make an axe for a much more effective tool and weapon. The boom in technology and progress we have seen over the past few centuries is the product of the industrial revolution and then the computer revolution. This second renaissance we are in if you will is not the norm even within our own culture so Skyrim is more accurate to the advancement of a civilization than we are today.

everyone has already said it ten times over but the world is in bad shape from something that happened in the books "which I didn't read but hear happened" plus skyrim is sorta on its own .. todd howard talked about how skyrim has always been lower tech and much more wild than the rest of the world .. it isn't earth .. and really .. do you weant them to start getting more and more modern as time goes on? .. TESVIII with guns? :P

In world of TES is magic available for everyone.

AND

Working magic inhibit any advanced technology.

 

Why?

Because a technology is in its early times imperfect. It is usable, but has many problems, which solution cost time and money, and carries in itself the risk of failure. Replication once succesful solution cost time and money again.

Technology is created as a string of tasks and solutions, causes and consequences, which are interconnected. The technology can not skip any step. Each next step needs to rigorous basics in the previous step.

 

Magic works differently. It does not require such rigorous basics, in it is enough demand and an idea. Magic can be in its early times also imperfect. But solving problems cost time only. "Financial" cost of solving problem are small. Replication once successful solution then cost "nothing" - need only right knowledge.

 

Then the technology solves only the problems for which where a solution using magic less effective. And for that is good enought an simple technology.

 

Really I think the comments about the collapse of the empire slowing down progress and relating to the Romans is probably the most valid one. As well as the religious argument stating that technology goes against their faith in some way.

Not only the collapse of the empire inhibit the development of technology.

Just look at the evolution of technology in Japan after the establishment of shogunate (Tokugawa period, Edo period 1603 - 1868). There's no visible progress in technology. Sure, some technologies are being developed, but none are "groundbreaking". The development goes a completely different direction than in Europa.

Without reading the rest of the topic let me ask you this.

 

If you could shoot fireballs and lighting from your hands, would you need a cannon?

 

Yes fireballs and lightning dont destroy stone walls. And no cannons/guns shouldnt be in the game yet as I pretty much have had to state on every page :facepalm:

Stone pushed by magic could destroy a wall.

 

Skyrim isn't the TES game for guns and stuff. Maybe later, but not anytime soon.

Staffs are the magical equivalent of guns and rocket launchers. Unfortunately they are usually limited to at best semi automatic fire. I would not object to staffs that can shoot the equivalent of fully automatic fire or at least three round bursts. Pelting an area with rapid fire low level flares or a continuous stream of lightning would be cool.

 

I do not agree with the no cannons in the future idea though. Just make magical ones like the Oblivion Siege Crawler; big, rare and insanely powerful.

I think a good reason technology just doesn't catch up is because magic can do so much. There's some technology at work like the one blackwood company had in oblivion, so the making of machines does not seem entirely lost.

 

Maybe also the sudden disappearance of the dwemer puts some kind of a damper on research, why would you want to go in the direction of electricity, steam power and all that, if it seemed like that very technology wiped them off the face of earth...

 

I would not mind firearms in elder scrolls, but not machine guns or anything like that, just cruddy manual reload rifles/handguns that cost a small fortune to maintain and use, that'd be OK with me. Maybe not in skyrim, but maybe in a title set at a later date. I mean, there's some allusions to east asian cultures in morrowind, and they were really early with firearms, even if it was merely a metal pipe with some explosives lit in fire throwing out shrapnel or whatever.

It took a good long while until we got fancy stuff like matchlock guns, and those kinda sucked. It took up until the 17th century until flintlock firearms started appearing!

Guns got so many things going against them in the TES world. Not only does magic replace guns pretty well, rich lords and such surround themselves with mages and magical weaponry. And if you have that sort of firepower, why would you even BOTHER with firearms? Perhaps a magically stunted/abstaining race would put research into it, but I doubt that.

 

Guns in TES could work in terms of setting, but they would most probably be really primitive and unreliable.

 

Its true when people in this thread says technology was kind milling along slowly as the years passed by for a long while, then all of a sudden it just took off like mad and we got all these guns, electricity, vaccines and it was just scientific breakthrough after another.

 

I wouldn't mind a TES set in some kind of renaissance south/mid Europe inspired setting, but I don't think bethesda wants to take the games in that direction. And that's ok with me.

[poli13]

So let me clear this to me befor I get more confused.

 

It's okay to hawe:

-steam/soulgem powered robots (dwemer giants spiders etc)

-yell a dragon to dead

-youse your hand as a flametower becouse magic

-summon creatures/weapons from hell (a.k.a oblivion)

-dodn't do any technology or magich improwment like 200 years leater still

 

not okay:

-hawe primitive guns or crossbows (serously isn't it a bad idea? I mean giant dwemer robots are totaly k but s*hity guns are totaly way to much technology advancment)

-any kind of advancment/improwment aniwhere (I means serously hot air ballon how hard it woud be to do thet all you do is get a ballon put your derp mage there and he/she cast a fire spell and bang hot airballon befor fanboy attack me NO it isn't a gun NO it dosn't make Skyrim like fallout and it's powered by MAGIC so in your book it's totaly k to hawe)

-atleast a single improwment for people clothing or make new bether armors

 

so all of my what for this argument btw the OP asked thet isn't it strange thet nothing happend under 200 not a new potion or a new spell or something litle in avarage peoples life and ewerithing is still the same like from the ending from the oblivion events and I so hope thet when the CK is out somebody make some gun mod not an ak-47 or something but a normal fintlock rifle or something and I so gona dowload it and shoot all the things in skyrim btw to all ho argue thet OMG ZOMG HOW STUPID IDEA TO HAWE GUNS IN SKYRIM!!!!44!!444!

 

1:Bethesda didn't put in the game so you won't see it

2:if somebody make a mod to get guns you don't nead to dowlade it nobody force you

[ninga_express]

I have noticed some significant technological upgrades, especially when comparing oblivion to skyrim.

You may think that technological advances would fundamentally change society forever, but technology upgrades affect simple and in areas of profession like the smiths, alchemists and enchanters.

 

• 
   
  
• From mortar & pestle and alembic to a mass produced and very advanced alchemy lab, which can create any potion so long as you know the recipe, is available to anyone and can be set up virtually anywhere.
  
• Smithing has improved dramatically, now every blacksmith can afford a working forge with grindstone, tanning rack and worktable. Also these forges are really advanced since they can create Daedric armor if your skilled enough.
  
• Enchanting tables have improved heaps from the alters, from exclusive to the mages guild , to a fully pimped out mass produced table that is again, hyper powerful so long as you got the skills.
  
• Hell the saw mills are advanced, very few moving parts, no jams, and no source of fuel.
  
• Their wood chopping axes never go dull and can chop wood endlessly
  
• Their pick axes can extract minerals faster than a bucket wheel excavator
  
• Arrow strings never break
  
• Bows never need tuning
  
• Swords never go dull, when you sharpen them, they stay sharp.
  
• Hell there was a merchant who uses ice wraith teeth as a way of preserving her meats
   
  

 

Skyrim, hell of a lot more advanced than you think

[poli13]

I have noticed some significant technological upgrades, especially when comparing oblivion to skyrim.

You may think that technological advances would fundamentally change society forever, but technology upgrades affect simple and in areas of profession like the smiths, alchemists and enchanters.

 

• 
   
  
• From mortar & pestle and alembic to a mass produced and very advanced alchemy lab, which can create any potion so long as you know the recipe, is available to anyone and can be set up virtually anywhere.
  
• Smithing has improved dramatically, now every blacksmith can afford a working forge with grindstone, tanning rack and worktable. Also these forges are really advanced since they can create Daedric armor if your skilled enough.
  
• Enchanting tables have improved heaps from the alters, from exclusive to the mages guild , to a fully pimped out mass produced table that is again, hyper powerful so long as you got the skills.
  
• Hell the saw mills are advanced, very few moving parts, no jams, and no source of fuel.
  
• Their wood chopping axes never go dull and can chop wood endlessly
  
• Their pick axes can extract minerals faster than a bucket wheel excavator
  
• Arrow strings never break
  
• Bows never need tuning
  
• Swords never go dull, when you sharpen them, they stay sharp.
  
• Hell there was a merchant who uses ice wraith teeth as a way of preserving her meats
   
  

 

Skyrim, hell of a lot more advanced than you think

 

 

Yes and all of this advancment peopel woud think thet in skyrim they finaly made new enchanments/armor/weapons/potions etc but they still build the same stuff like 200 year befor and almost nothing new idea for weapons and armors or improved citys sure there are severs and stuff but wehn I saw the saw mills the 1 time in the game befour I entered in one of the main citys I whas like: omg sawmils finaly some improvment I bet wiht this people coud produce bether plankes so they coud build bether houses towns etc then I arrive to the first town and befor I enter in I see thet it's in such a bad condition thet this can't be good then entered in the city end I whas shocked thet the oblivion citys had bether contrusction and we are like 200 year after them so wtf?

[Illiad86]

do you know what happened when Rome fell? the empire has fallen so....

 

Indeed....

 

Rome fell and we went into the Dark Ages. Technology and education came to a standstill and people started living in small communities again. War, plague, and starvation were rampant. The Empire has fallen in this and the provinces are split and there's civil war.

 

With me for TES, I think magick holds back most advancement in technology. Plus, the Daedric gods take it or destroy it before it's ever used.

[ninga_express]

Also guys remember that Skyrim is outside of Cyrodil, what happens when you drive 3 hours away from a city... It's like you have gone back in time. Considering Skyrim's culture would be vastly different to Cyrodil's I wouldn't be surprised if they were still using sticks and stones.

[RitualBlack]

I have noticed some significant technological upgrades, especially when comparing oblivion to skyrim.

You may think that technological advances would fundamentally change society forever, but technology upgrades affect simple and in areas of profession like the smiths, alchemists and enchanters.

 

• 
   
  
• From mortar & pestle and alembic to a mass produced and very advanced alchemy lab, which can create any potion so long as you know the recipe, is available to anyone and can be set up virtually anywhere.
  
• Smithing has improved dramatically, now every blacksmith can afford a working forge with grindstone, tanning rack and worktable. Also these forges are really advanced since they can create Daedric armor if your skilled enough.
  
• Enchanting tables have improved heaps from the alters, from exclusive to the mages guild , to a fully pimped out mass produced table that is again, hyper powerful so long as you got the skills.
  
• Hell the saw mills are advanced, very few moving parts, no jams, and no source of fuel.
  
• Their wood chopping axes never go dull and can chop wood endlessly
  
• Their pick axes can extract minerals faster than a bucket wheel excavator
  
• Arrow strings never break
  
• Bows never need tuning
  
• Swords never go dull, when you sharpen them, they stay sharp.
  
• Hell there was a merchant who uses ice wraith teeth as a way of preserving her meats
   
  

 

Skyrim, hell of a lot more advanced than you think

 

 

Yes and all of this advancment peopel woud think thet in skyrim they finaly made new enchanments/armor/weapons/potions etc but they still build the same stuff like 200 year befor and almost nothing new idea for weapons and armors or improved citys sure there are severs and stuff but wehn I saw the saw mills the 1 time in the game befour I entered in one of the main citys I whas like: omg sawmils finaly some improvment I bet wiht this people coud produce bether plankes so they coud build bether houses towns etc then I arrive to the first town and befor I enter in I see thet it's in such a bad condition thet this can't be good then entered in the city end I whas shocked thet the oblivion citys had bether contrusction and we are like 200 year after them so wtf?

 

The colder the climate the less "advanced" things tend to look. I live in Canada which has very different climates depending on where you are, and the same could apply to Skyrim. In Tamrial they had nice farmable soil and very dense populations, but in Skyrim its cold and people are spread out more. A high frost line can very harshly control what can and can't be built. If they have to hand dig their basements through 6 feet of permafrost than a massive city with sub floor sewers is going to be near impossible. Also, less people eliminates the means and purpose for large scale construction. No point having a farming community build a skyscraper for :tongue: .200 years isn't really a fair time frame for vast weapon changes either, and if gun powder isn't invented than who knows how many years projectiles could be set back, and a Feudal Japanese katana pretty much as sharp as we get blades now, so essentially a sharp well made sword is a sword, no matter when it was made :laugh: . I think that their magical and alchemy advances are pretty sufficient for 200 years, and I would hate for the fantasy feel of the series to be killed off like Fable 3 did to the fable series (and arguably fable 2 also, but I still liked it).

[minngarm]

do you know what happened when Rome fell? the empire has fallen so....

 

Indeed....

 

Rome fell and we went into the Dark Ages. Technology and education came to a standstill and people started living in small communities again. War, plague, and starvation were rampant. The Empire has fallen in this and the provinces are split and there's civil war.

 

With me for TES, I think magick holds back most advancement in technology. Plus, the Daedric gods take it or destroy it before it's ever used.

 

Correction, Rome fell and we went back 400 years and stayed in that general area for another what? 200-300? Now in TES this has already happened with the dwemer stuff, and while technology is just finally starting to advance again the new empire has fallen, and the elves are pulling the strings now. Which means heavy reliance on magic and a general shun of "primitive" technology advances.

[jintos]

I don't think anyone has said this yet, though I do think some people touched on it.

 

The reason technology hasn't advanced is because of a taboo resulting from the dissapeareance of the dwemer.

 

Everyone (in the game world) knew they were technologically advanced, and everyone knew they also all mysteriously dissapeared.

 

The people of the game world decided that the gods were angry at the dwemer for their arrogance (they wanted to create their own god) and that the dwemer were flashbanged to oblivion.

 

So most people just avoid complex technology in the game, excluding the rare few who make use of some dwemer machines that have still survived.

 

Regarding how magic has deteriorated, I'm adhering to the "Roman Empire" thing.

[BallsOFyre]

Theorectically, modern human beings have inhabited this planet for 100,000 years. A great many civilizations have risen and fallen in that time, and it seems like it's only been in the last 400 or so years....out of 100,000 years.....that we've gotten away from spears, bows and swords.

 

Apparently technology evolves slowly up to a certain point. It takes forever to go from wood to bronze to iron to steel to gunpowder. 200 years is nothin' in the scheme of early man.