Future of EU...

[sunshinenbrick]

We are aware these are humans, families, and children, right? Rounding people up into sectioned areas sounds suspiciously like places visited in the past.

 

There is an argument to say that the many amenities and luxuries of the 'upper tier countries' are what need to be curbed rather than the movement of people (ourselves included), which will only become more abundant as climate change and corporate globalisation (regardless of the causes) transforms our planet. In the long run why would companies and governments (and one another) want to encourage all populations to live like kings and queens (which many in the 'west' do, especially in relative terms). i.e. is it really a priority to give people holiday pay so they can buy a new smartphone and waste time chasing virtual animals... other than to distract them from the realities of having their lives slowly owned by the companies/governments they think serve them.

 

In a world of increasingly scarce resources, such as water, arable land, and oil then we must either learn to share more and not be so greedy, or the last laugh will be on us. The vast majority of us, including you, me and only but the select few, will not benefit from a race to the bottom. We will enslave ourselves by chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow (or 'Pokemons' as the case may be...). Surely people are aware of this? Maybe not the masses, but thoughtful and curious people here I am sure are able to see this, no?

 

Do people forget so easily? Do you not see the genius of the plan to 'destroy' economies, create false flag attacks and then divide people through panic and fear? It has littered our media and literature for decades now and could not be much more obvious in many cases. C'mon, it isn't tinfoil hat stuff anymore... I sometimes think that they could literally put out official posters stating this stuff and people are so flipping confused and bewildered that they would still bury their heads in the sand and think it is their neighbour plotting against them (who is likely equally confused and bewildered, and probably is). It is painful to watch and listen to. It also makes you wonder whether there is any hope for people to wake up.

 

As for surveillance... if you don't think that is happening, or that it isn't an effective form of control then it really is a sorry state of affairs indeed. :confused:

 

EDIT: I would like to point out that none of the above excuses the wrong doings that happen. What I am saying is that we should not bundle large groups of people into categories based on the actions of a minority within 'that group'. This is in fact the very ideology driven behind things like ISIS and other terrorist organisations - they see 'the west' as all the same, even those that they claim to represent. Look the other way and it is exactly the same behaviour that many powers in the west employ, i.e. ISIS no more represent the majority of islamic religion/cultures than, for example, Goldman Sachs or the rest of 'the establishment' represent the values of most 'western' citizens.

 

What it is about is seeing through the noise and hypocrisy, to challenge the narrative and be open to thinking for yourself and not simply 'follow the herd'. It is simple and easy to do this, life is hard despite our (current) access to many freedoms. The point is not all freedoms make you free or are of any value - just because you can doesn't always mean you should. I am not an anti progressive by any means, and yet I do believe at the same time that many are led up the garden path to pursue and indulge in things that are useless and temporary while being under the illusion that they are the opposite. Even as a 'pro western capitalist' many of these things are just plain wrong, if not actually downright stupid a lot of the time. Fighting an ideology is surely not about doing the exact same thing under a different name...

[JimboUK]

Has anyone ever thought of forcing the local mosques to pay for the funerals and have those going there physically bury the bodies. Or track the killers back to the Moscues they last frequented and do the same.

 

I'm sure after a while those people will start being more vigilant on who they have in there.

 

These people have to have a place to worship and a place to plan these attacks. If you make the community responsible for cleaning up the mess they might be more interested in the new guys that keep to themselves.

 

Rather than do that I'd close any Mosque that is found to preaching hate or even worse, and there are those that do, as a place of worship they're fine, as a recruiting office for radicals they are not and need to be got rid of if that sort of thing is found to be going on.

[RGMage2]

I don't know about the UK, but here we have laws against hate speech and spreading hatred against an identifiable group (that's us, western peoples, we are an identifiable group now), I'd like to see those laws enforced against any Imam or Cleric inciting hatred. Don't just close the mosque. lock them up and after they've done their time deport them.

[sunshinenbrick]

Wonder if the same laws apply to the likes of Nigel Farrage, or The Daily Mail? How about Donald Trump for that matter? Charlie Hebdo?

 

Or is that just to be taken as 'freedom of speech'?

[HeyYou]

The trouble with Radical Islam is, moderate Islam....... The radicals make a lot of noise, kill a lot of people, and the moderates are extremely quiet. They don't condemn the attacks, they don't say squat, which in most folks views, translates to tacit agreement/support. So, it isn't just the radicals that are seen as the problem, but, Islam as a whole. Of course, some of the tenets of even moderate islam are incompatible with western values....... and the Islamists that come to our shores, be it the US, Europe, UK, don't 'integrate' at all. They form their own small communities, and continue to live by the rules they grew up under, and then act surprised when the 'natives' don't appreciate them, don't want to adapt to THEIR way of life, and most certainly do not accept their values. After all, Islam isn't just a 'religion', it's a political system, that attempts to rule EVERY aspect of your life. One of the suburbs of Detroit USED to be 80% white. Today, it is under 50%.... with about 30% of being of arab descent....... it's like being transported to Iraq... (without the violence....)

[Harbringe]

Wonder if the same laws apply to the likes of Nigel Farrage, or The Daily Mail? How about Donald Trump for that matter? Charlie Hebdo?

 

Or is that just to be taken as 'freedom of speech'?

 

Seriously are you insane . I don't ever recall Nigel Farange , Donald Trump or Charlie Hebdo ever calling for the deaths of anyone . I don't know if you understand what freedom of speech is about but the people of Charlie Hebdo did and its what got them massacred by people who follow a particular ideology and would silence that very freedom of speech. The equivalency you made was not only embarrassing it show a complete ignorance of what it is that you are faced with .

[sunshinenbrick]

The trouble with Radical Islam is, moderate Islam....... The radicals make a lot of noise, kill a lot of people, and the moderates are extremely quiet. They don't condemn the attacks, they don't say squat, which in most folks views, translates to tacit agreement/support. So, it isn't just the radicals that are seen as the problem, but, Islam as a whole. Of course, some of the tenets of even moderate islam are incompatible with western values....... and the Islamists that come to our shores, be it the US, Europe, UK, don't 'integrate' at all. They form their own small communities, and continue to live by the rules they grew up under, and then act surprised when the 'natives' don't appreciate them, don't want to adapt to THEIR way of life, and most certainly do not accept their values. After all, Islam isn't just a 'religion', it's a political system, that attempts to rule EVERY aspect of your life. One of the suburbs of Detroit USED to be 80% white. Today, it is under 50%.... with about 30% of being of arab descent....... it's like being transported to Iraq... (without the violence....)

 

A good deal of that depends on who and what you listen to.

 

Mainstream media will sing to the tune of whatever gets people riled up as it ensures more outrage and thus more readers/viewers. Staying silent, or out of the issue does not automatically imply endorsement or approval, where is the freedom to remain silent if that is the case?? If you think it has nothing to do with you anyway then why would you 'get involved'? Many people would see that as an admission of guilt too - damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Lest we forget it was 'us' who steamrolled our way into many parts of the world post WWII, Gulf War, Iraq, Syria... wherever next... so I guess, yeah, they are involved now. Bill Hicks' 'pick up the gun' comes to mind...

 

Many muslims DO speak out against such crimes, and are in fact are the victims of it! How many muslims have you actually spoken to on the subject? When they do speak out, why would the western media promote it anyway, as it doesn't help their cause?

 

 

 

Wonder if the same laws apply to the likes of Nigel Farrage, or The Daily Mail? How about Donald Trump for that matter? Charlie Hebdo?

 

Or is that just to be taken as 'freedom of speech'?

 

Seriously are you insane . I don't ever recall Nigel Farange , Donald Trump or Charlie Hebdo ever calling for the deaths of anyone . I don't know if you understand what freedom of speech is about but the people of Charlie Hebdo did and its what got them massacred by people who follow a particular ideology and would silence that very freedom of speech. The equivalency you made was not only embarrassing it show a complete ignorance of what it is that you are faced with .

 

 

Are you serious? Drone attacks? Iraq? Syria?

 

You don't have to use the word 'death' in order to incite bigotry, hatred, violence, and to point the finger at others for all the ills in peoples' lives. Is it really necessary to point these things out, or are you just unwilling to see both sides of it?

 

The mechanics of how these things happen is always, somewhat conveniently, hard to pin down, and it is also easy to turn a blind eye and not make connections when it happens in a desert, thousands of miles away.

[RGMage2]

Wonder if the same laws apply to the likes of Nigel Farrage, or The Daily Mail? How about Donald Trump for that matter? Charlie Hebdo?

 

Or is that just to be taken as 'freedom of speech'?

Those laws were brought in primarily to be used against holocaust deniers. If they were used now it is more likely that the bleeding hearts would use them against me for my intolerance toward the jihadists who preach death to us all.

[JaYmZeE311074]

 

The trouble with Radical Islam is, moderate Islam....... The radicals make a lot of noise, kill a lot of people, and the moderates are extremely quiet. They don't condemn the attacks, they don't say squat, which in most folks views, translates to tacit agreement/support. So, it isn't just the radicals that are seen as the problem, but, Islam as a whole. Of course, some of the tenets of even moderate islam are incompatible with western values....... and the Islamists that come to our shores, be it the US, Europe, UK, don't 'integrate' at all. They form their own small communities, and continue to live by the rules they grew up under, and then act surprised when the 'natives' don't appreciate them, don't want to adapt to THEIR way of life, and most certainly do not accept their values. After all, Islam isn't just a 'religion', it's a political system, that attempts to rule EVERY aspect of your life. One of the suburbs of Detroit USED to be 80% white. Today, it is under 50%.... with about 30% of being of arab descent....... it's like being transported to Iraq... (without the violence....)

 

A good deal of that depends on who and what you listen to.

 

Mainstream media will sing to the tune of whatever gets people riled up as it ensures more outrage and thus more readers/viewers. Staying silent, or out of the issue does not automatically imply endorsement or approval, where is the freedom to remain silent if that is the case?? If you think it has nothing to do with you anyway then why would you 'get involved'? Many people would see that as an admission of guilt too - damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Lest we forget it was 'us' who steamrolled our way into many parts of the world post WWII, Gulf War, Iraq, Syria... wherever next... so I guess, yeah, they are involved now. Bill Hicks' 'pick up the gun' comes to mind...

 

Many muslims DO speak out against such crimes, and are in fact are the victims of it! How many muslims have you actually spoken to on the subject? When they do speak out, why would the western media promote it anyway, as it doesn't help their cause?

 

 

 

Wonder if the same laws apply to the likes of Nigel Farrage, or The Daily Mail? How about Donald Trump for that matter? Charlie Hebdo?

 

Or is that just to be taken as 'freedom of speech'?

 

Seriously are you insane . I don't ever recall Nigel Farange , Donald Trump or Charlie Hebdo ever calling for the deaths of anyone . I don't know if you understand what freedom of speech is about but the people of Charlie Hebdo did and its what got them massacred by people who follow a particular ideology and would silence that very freedom of speech. The equivalency you made was not only embarrassing it show a complete ignorance of what it is that you are faced with .

 

 

Are you serious? Drone attacks? Iraq? Syria?

 

You don't have to use the word 'death' in order to incite bigotry, hatred, violence, and to point the finger at others for all the ills in peoples' lives. Is it really necessary to provide links to such things, or are you just unwilling to see both sides of it?

 

The mechanics of how these things happen is always, somewhat conveniently, hard to pin down, and it is also easy to turn a blind eye and not make connections when it happens in a desert, thousands of miles away.

 

See above - save me repeating myself.

[Harbringe]

 

The trouble with Radical Islam is, moderate Islam....... The radicals make a lot of noise, kill a lot of people, and the moderates are extremely quiet. They don't condemn the attacks, they don't say squat, which in most folks views, translates to tacit agreement/support. So, it isn't just the radicals that are seen as the problem, but, Islam as a whole. Of course, some of the tenets of even moderate islam are incompatible with western values....... and the Islamists that come to our shores, be it the US, Europe, UK, don't 'integrate' at all. They form their own small communities, and continue to live by the rules they grew up under, and then act surprised when the 'natives' don't appreciate them, don't want to adapt to THEIR way of life, and most certainly do not accept their values. After all, Islam isn't just a 'religion', it's a political system, that attempts to rule EVERY aspect of your life. One of the suburbs of Detroit USED to be 80% white. Today, it is under 50%.... with about 30% of being of arab descent....... it's like being transported to Iraq... (without the violence....)

 

A good deal of that depends on who and what you listen to.

 

Mainstream media will sing to the tune of whatever gets people riled up as it ensures more outrage and thus more readers/viewers. Staying silent, or out of the issue does not automatically imply endorsement or approval, where is the freedom to remain silent if that is the case?? If you think it has nothing to do with you anyway then why would you 'get involved'? Many people would see that as an admission of guilt too - damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

Lest we forget it was 'us' who steamrolled our way into many parts of the world post WWII, Gulf War, Iraq, Syria... wherever next... so I guess, yeah, they are involved now. Bill Hicks' 'pick up the gun' comes to mind...

 

Many muslims DO speak out against such crimes, and are in fact are the victims of it! How many muslims have you actually spoken to on the subject? When they do speak out, why would the western media promote it anyway, as it doesn't help their cause?

 

 

 

Wonder if the same laws apply to the likes of Nigel Farrage, or The Daily Mail? How about Donald Trump for that matter? Charlie Hebdo?

 

Or is that just to be taken as 'freedom of speech'?

 

Seriously are you insane . I don't ever recall Nigel Farange , Donald Trump or Charlie Hebdo ever calling for the deaths of anyone . I don't know if you understand what freedom of speech is about but the people of Charlie Hebdo did and its what got them massacred by people who follow a particular ideology and would silence that very freedom of speech. The equivalency you made was not only embarrassing it show a complete ignorance of what it is that you are faced with .

 

 

Are you serious? Drone attacks? Iraq? Syria?

 

You don't have to use the word 'death' in order to incite bigotry, hatred, violence, and to point the finger at others for all the ills in peoples' lives. Is it really necessary to point these things out, or are you just unwilling to see both sides of it?

 

The mechanics of how these things happen is always, somewhat conveniently, hard to pin down, and it is also easy to turn a blind eye and not make connections when it happens in a desert, thousands of miles away.

 

 

The subject wasn't Drone strikes , iraq , or Syria but freedom of speech and how some deem it necessary to kill simply for expressing a point of view . If you want to talk about how Iraq was a war crime or drone strikes are a completely unjust and ineffective means that should only be used in the direst of circumstance or how our so called allies are funding a terrorist war in Syria with our (the West's) complicity , ok . But that wasn't what I was speaking to . Try not to conflate the woe's of the world to what I was speaking to.

 

And Charlie Hebdo was what pushed it over the edge , seriously if your equating political satire to what you can or cannot say , then those freedoms you think you have , your'e actually losing them with false equivalencies like that.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Harbringe