DDP MY MODS ARE DOWN, COMMENCE ATTACK ON BETHESDAS MAIN PLATFORM

[llamaRCA]

 

The people who have the knowledge to pirate games and use the Creation Kit don't fit the demographic of people who play on console.

 

 

Still can't tell if you're being serious or not because there are a lot of people in the community who own both consoles and PCs and copies of the game on both. That's been going on since Bethesda started releasing the editors.

[Jeoshua]

For mod authors, the solution should be the similar. Pirates cannot support the mods. They lack the understanding to provide any customer service beyond uploading the pirated content. If a mod is something that can be ported then it should be ported.

<snip>

Anyway, that is essentially my thoughts on this. I think it is a good solution. At least it is a lot better than trying to give the Nexus a bad name by attempting sabotage, joking or otherwise. Feel free to disagree.

 

I'm torn on this issue, here. I am a FOSS advocate, and I would agree with the idea that anything which can be ported should be ported, but if it's against the will of the creator, and they take issue with it, then there is a problem. Any porting should be done with full consent of the author. If it can be ported, and the author merely cannot do the troubleshooting themselves, then if some kind sir comes along and ports it for them, that's good. But again, if they don't want it, there should be a mechanism for them to have it taken down.

 

If console modding were possible in previous games, I might have run afoul of this myself. And for some mods, I would have been happy to give permission, just so long as credit was retained and I was able to give them more recent versions whenever I was able to have them perform the port. Other times I would have been very upset, and worried that my creation would not have run properly on XBox Hardware. If you all remember, in Fallout Remastered the achievements were removed since they were superfluous to the PC experience... that would have been very bad if it had been ported, since a lot of XBox stuff was removed in the process, as well. And it would have looked very poor if that mod, with my name on it, were floating around crashing XBoxes whenever they downloaded some pirated version of it.

 

At other times, there are mods which simply cannot be made compatible for the console. Bethesda.net has a 2GB limit, and many texture mods simply won't fit, and their loose file structure is not supported on the console. Total conversions, once they are made, will run into a similar problem. And Environment mods like Resurrection have file sizes and performance requirements that are so high that they could never be converted and would absolutely kill any console, as they do to half the PC users that try to run it. These kind of mods should never be allowed to be chopped, sliced, mashed, and crammed into an archive for people to download on Bethesda.net because that process would irreparably damage the mod and possibly the user's installation of Fallout.

 

Overall, there needs to be a defined grievance process for when one's mods are uploaded to Bethesda.net either against the will of the creator or against logic and sanity. As far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be. DDProductions is pissed, and rightly so, because he has no avenue for relief that's been given to him.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Jeoshua

[iXenite]

 

I'm torn on this issue, here. I am a FOSS advocate, and I would agree with the idea that anything which can be ported should be ported, but if it's against the will of the creator, and they take issue with it, then there is a problem. Any porting should be done with full consent of the author. If it can be ported, and the author merely cannot do the troubleshooting themselves, then if some kind sir comes along and ports it for them, that's good. But again, if they don't want it, there should be a mechanism for them to have it taken down.

 

 

That is what I wrote. I apologize if there was a confusion on that. I meant that the mod authors should upload their mods. By officially supporting the spread of their own content, they will beat the pirates by providing the better deal. That's what I meant by my post. Once again, really sorry about the confusion. Did not realize I did not make myself clear enough.

 

 

At other times, there are mods which simply cannot be made compatible for the console. Bethesda.net has a 2GB limit, and many texture mods simply won't fit, and their loose file structure is not supported on the console. Total conversions, once they are made, will run into a similar problem. And Environment mods like Resurrection have file sizes and performance requirements that are so high that they could never be converted and would absolutely kill any console, as they do to half the PC users that try to run it. These kind of mods should never be allowed to be chopped, sliced, mashed, and crammed into an archive for people to download on Bethesda.net because that process would irreparably damage the mod and possibly the user's installation of Fallout.

 

 

My response to the above:

 

If it is something that obviously wouldn't work on consoles or is forbidden by Bethesda, then it will be taken down anyway. This has already been proven to be true. Bethesda does not want mods that break their rules and will remove mods when they are reported, and has done so already.

 

I recognize there will be countless mods that simply cannot function on console, they obviously should not be uploaded and if thieves took them Bethesda would remove them because they simply wouldn't work. Nudity, child killing and other things that break Bethesda rules would obviously be removed by Bethesda themselves, otherwise they would feel the ire of Microsoft and Sony.

Edited June 7, 2016 by DaddyDirection

[Jeoshua]

 

Having dealt with this in real world courts personally... you are wrong. Bethesda ultimately owns anything you create with their tools which is why the can put limitations on what you can and can't do with them.

 

 

There's a key point that everyone seems to miss here. These people uploading the work of others didn't create anything at all. They merely used these tools to convert them. Additionally, NIFs, DDSs, and any other file-types other than ESP, VIS, and possibly a couple of others that I am forgetting, cannot be created with Bethesda's provided tools. The copyrights of those remain with whatever creator, and there is legal precident to treat these as separate from the plugin.

 

Does anyone else remember the Mass Effect resources issue? When people were taking files wholesale from Mass Effect and porting them to Fallout 3, they were considered to be stolen. They had to have passed through the editor in order to be in the game, but legally speaking they were not at that point the possession of Bethesda. Those mods were taken down for copyright infringement. Thus, the Copyright of any file not created wholly inside of the Editor lies with the original copyright holder of that file, and editing of any file similarly does not change the holder of the Copyright, and at all times this Copyright remains the sole possession of whoever originally created that file and claimed it.

 

Thus, the process of uploading a file does not change its copyright, all files retain their initial copyright through any editing process, and the files uploaded without permission of DDProductions83 retain his original copyright due to the extra file contents that they must contain in order to work. The only acceptable console port of the work of DDProductions83, legally, would be if someone removed any meshes, textures, and likewise any work done by DDProductions83, and uploaded only an ESP file that was created wholly by a third party. In other words, the only acceptable port is a work inspired by his mods, and would be a new mod in and of itself.

 

I rest my case.

[OunceStripes]

The thing is if you are the owner of a copyrighted content you can't upload it to bethesda.net because you waive your right on this content to give a license to bethesda to use it.

[marcmorr6]

The thing is if you are the owner of a copyrighted content you can't upload it to bethesda.net because you waive your right on this content to give a license to bethesda to use it.

 

If you used the creation kit... they already have a right to your work.... whether its hosted on Nexus or not. That's part of the EULA for the Creation Kit.

[iXenite]

The thing is if you are the owner of a copyrighted content you can't upload it to bethesda.net because you waive your right on this content to give a license to bethesda to use it.

 

That's not really what the EULA says at all. Besides, Bethesda isn't using anything - they're hosting it. That's like saying the Nexus owns all of the mods uploaded here. Bethesda only truly becomes involved if you were to try and sell your mods. Bethesda would therefore be entitled to royalties because the CK, and perhaps their assets, were used to create the mod.

[marcmorr6]

 

 

Having dealt with this in real world courts personally... you are wrong. Bethesda ultimately owns anything you create with their tools which is why the can put limitations on what you can and can't do with them.

 

 

There's a key point that everyone seems to miss here. These people uploading the work of others didn't create anything at all. They merely used these tools to convert them. Additionally, NIFs, DDSs, and any other file-types other than ESP, VIS, and possibly a couple of others that I am forgetting, cannot be created with Bethesda's provided tools. The copyrights of those remain with whatever creator, and there is legal precident to treat these as separate from the plugin.

 

Does anyone else remember the Mass Effect resources issue? When people were taking files wholesale from Mass Effect and porting them to Fallout 3, they were considered to be stolen. They had to have passed through the editor in order to be in the game, but legally speaking they were not at that point the possession of Bethesda. Those mods were taken down for copyright infringement. Thus, the Copyright of any file not created wholly inside of the Editor lies with the original copyright holder of that file, and editing of any file similarly does not change the holder of the Copyright, and at all times this Copyright remains the sole possession of whoever originally created that file and claimed it.

 

Thus, the process of uploading a file does not change its copyright, all files retain their initial copyright through any editing process, and the files uploaded without permission of DDProductions83 retain his original copyright due to the extra file contents that they must contain in order to work. The only acceptable console port of the work of DDProductions83, legally, would be if someone removed any meshes, textures, and likewise any work done by DDProductions83, and uploaded only an ESP file that was created wholly by a third party. In other words, the only acceptable port is a work inspired by his mods, and would be a new mod in and of itself.

 

I rest my case.

 

 

If you use the creation kit to upload and compile... you are held to the EULA whether you wrote the code by hand, offline in notepad before bringing it over.

[Jeoshua]

The thing is if you are the owner of a copyrighted content you can't upload it to bethesda.net because you waive your right on this content to give a license to bethesda to use it.

 

Read the EULA of the Editor carefully. It only mentions things created with the Editor, which the document defines as the Creation Kit. Any Meshes, Textures, and other files of the kind cannot be created in the Editor, and are merely referred to by the ESP files. Bethesda retains some rights over these ESP files, but makes no legal claim on anything not created in the Editor. Furthermore, archiving a file does not change the copyright holder, as if I were to zip up some of my files, they do not become the property of 7Zip Inc, rather, they retain my copyright. That means that these files, which contain an ESP/ESM and a BA2, contain within them the copyrighted work of Bethesda AND of DDProductions83, and thus should be subject to the laws of copyright infringement if done without the consent or approval of the author.

 

If Bethesda has a problem with that, and they wanted to keep the file up for some reason, they would only legally be entitled to keep the ESP file, which would be useless without the supporting files.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Jeoshua

[BloodyStigmata]

Would it be possible to, say, make a mod that recognizes if a person is playing on console and crash the game immediately?

 

'Cause I was thinking, if you were to make such a mod, and set said mod as a master file for any mod you upload to the nexus... could it help to deter thieves?