Guess who is back?

[justwannaddl]

The vague fate of heroes in previous TES games always drove me a little nuts. Its why the image of old Sheogorath just fuels the imagination... and feels like a finger is jabbing me in the eye every time I look at it. Its like suddenly being told the fate of your old character after years of waiting only for it to be cut off mid sentence. Of coarse, knowing how coy they will be about revealing what happened, I'll probably go completely nuts making and reading wild theories for the foreseeable future. :sweat:

 

On wild theories, personally I prefer the idea that the Shivering Isle is the real power while Sheogorath isn't much more than an office. After all, unchanging rules govern taking office in the Isles and power taken from the land is what gets the CoC the job in the first place. As you've said though, that's just one player's (heretical) take on it. I wonder if he'd kill me if I said he wasn't really Sheogorath without his staff of office. :psyduck:

[diosoth]

If it's real, it's probably vague laziness to stick to lore and not contradict people who didn't install/play SI. Though if it'd really been adherent to lore the Daedra wouldn't be showing up at all. I also took Jyggalag's final speech after the battle as a sign that he was not going to be turning back into Sheogorath and you were destined to become a Daedric Prince eventually, after some time. Granted, it's very well possible the CoC takes the standard appearance of Sheogorath when dealing with Nirn... after all, why theoretically tick off all of Tamriel by revealing that you, their "hero" is also the new madgod? It'd also probably upset, confuse or outright anger a lot of Sheo's worshippers if all the statues suddenly changed and the voice they get back when summoning you was different... especially if the new Sheogorath is female, they might think there was a takeover. Something like that could start a bad religious war. Though I also wonder why the Nine even allowed a mortal to take such a role? Did they intend for the hero of Tamriel to become the new madgod(were you less likely to be a threat than the current Sheogorath?) or are all the beliefs true that the Nine are basically uninvolved observers who "guide" without interfering much?

 

I also took much of what Sheo and Haskill said to indicate that Sheo KNEW there was no way to prevent the Greymarch from beginning(all that he has you do prior is to lead you on, to prepare to take his throne) and even Haskill tells you it was always his intention for you to be the new madgod. I gather that the idea of destroying the SI was just such a bad thought to him, that Sheo would rather become Jyggalag forever with a new Sheogorath in place than to destroy his own realm and the ONLY way he could break the cycle was to have you defeat him. For a usually cheerful guy, Sheo got rather depressed talking about the Greymarch.

 

The problems when your "hero" of a game is fully player-defined from person to person, it's next to impossible to write a solid canon involving the hero. Funny, since I'd always pictured mine going a bit power-bad and changing all the Tamriel statues to look like herself anyway.

 

Pity. if it'd been fully thought out, you could have loaded an Oblivion save file to turn Sheogorath into a copy of your PC rather than the default. Guess that's where modders will eventually step in.

Edited November 10, 2011 by diosoth

[Scorch621]

If it's real, it's probably vague laziness to stick to lore and not contradict people who didn't install/play SI. Though if it'd really been adherent to lore the Daedra wouldn't be showing up at all. I also took Jyggalag's final speech after the battle as a sign that he was not going to be turning back into Sheogorath and you were destined to become a Daedric Prince eventually, after some time. Granted, it's very well possible the CoC takes the standard appearance of Sheogorath when dealing with Nirn... after all, why theoretically tick off all of Tamriel by revealing that you, their "hero" is also the new madgod? It'd also probably upset, confuse or outright anger a lot of Sheo's worshippers if all the statues suddenly changed and the voice they get back when summoning you was different... especially if the new Sheogorath is female, they might think there was a takeover. Something like that could start a bad religious war. Though I also wonder why the Nine even allowed a mortal to take such a role? Did they intend for the hero of Tamriel to become the new madgod(were you less likely to be a threat than the current Sheogorath?) or are all the beliefs true that the Nine are basically uninvolved observers who "guide" without interfering much?

 

I also took much of what Sheo and Haskill said to indicate that Sheo KNEW there was no way to prevent the Greymarch from beginning(all that he has you do prior is to lead you on, to prepare to take his throne) and even Haskill tells you it was always his intention for you to be the new madgod. I gather that the idea of destroying the SI was just such a bad thought to him, that Sheo would rather become Jyggalag forever with a new Sheogorath in place than to destroy his own realm and the ONLY way he could break the cycle was to have you defeat him. For a usually cheerful guy, Sheo got rather depressed talking about the Greymarch.

 

The problems when your "hero" of a game is fully player-defined from person to person, it's next to impossible to write a solid canon involving the hero. Funny, since I'd always pictured mine going a bit power-bad and changing all the Tamriel statues to look like herself anyway.

 

Pity. if it'd been fully thought out, you could have loaded an Oblivion save file to turn Sheogorath into a copy of your PC rather than the default. Guess that's where modders will eventually step in.

 

Thats actually a very good ppint, the CoC wouldnt want to cause more problems for the empire after they have no real emperor...and as you said, theres always mods :D

[Pushkatu]

He'll turn into a good companion, thanks to mods, if he's not already one :)

[diosoth]

I would guess that the hero is either illusioning him/herself to look like the expected image of Sheogorath, or that Bethesda decided to write off SI totally and ignore it for the "benefit" of those who didn't play it. Probably the former, because hero or not, if the PC came right out and admitted to being Sheogorath they'd have Ocato and the entire Imperial Legion after them. The illusion idea also gets around the race and gender of the PC being up to the player.

 

I doubt much that you "became" just a replacement copy, a host body turned into the old one. After all, you were apparently the only one capable of going to the SI without losing your mind in 5 minutes or being killed by the gatekeeper, and if Sheogorath merely wanted to come back he'd have let the greymarch happen unchallenged, as he destroys the realm but comes back anyway. It's also possible that Jyggalag's the one who wanted this to be ended so he could return to normal and Sheo seems more interested in the preservation of his realm than in himself. As I mentioned before, even Haskill mentions that was his plan from the start, for his champion to be his replacement. With Jyggalag back there's no expectation for the old Sheo to return. He even planned to give you his staff but the staff went dead, which is why you had to make a new one.

 

Though it is funny how the hero of each game becomes some vague memory as if everyone collectively forgot what that person looked like. That would be like us forgetting all about Abraham Lincoln, what he was like, what he looked like, what he did, beyond some absolute vague historical notes.

[ShadowscaleB1980]

cheese. for. everyone! :dance:

[diosoth]

I'll guess that, ultimately, the game won't really go into any details and just not talk about it. Those who played SI can assume it's the Hero taking an illusion, those who didn't will assume it's the same old Sheogorath.

[justwannaddl]

For those interested in good ol' Sheogorath, I found this massive spoiler vid.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGdrwN89_kY

 

[diosoth]

So we can gather that-

 

 

"Sheogorath" is the Hero as he mentions being there when Martin became a dragon. As to why he looks like his old self I guess that's up to us to figure out if the hero morphed or if it's an illusion that only mortals see(if your hero was a Khajiit, Argonian or even female it'd have to be). He's as nuts as the old one but 200 years in the Shivering Isles, and probably a need to blend in and play the role no doubt took their toll.

 

And they got back his SI voice actor!

 

[Hateshinai]

OK I dont like repeating myself but I'll make an exception - I posted this a few months ago when someone asked about daedric quests in Skyrim. The answer is inside the Museum of Oddities if you give Una Armina the Sheogorath shaped amber and ask for a tour she will say:

"This right here is one of my favorites. A lump of amber in the shape of Lord Sheogorath's head! The wonders of nature never cease to amaze."

But if you had finished the SI questline and became Sheogorath she will say:

"This right here is one of my favorites. A lump of amber in the shape of your head, my Lord! A very popular item, too, if I may be so bold."

Yes meaning that the Champion of Cyrodiil already looks like Sheogorath and as I said in my previous post it makes sense regardless of gender because daedric princess have no gender they only take on male or female forms according to their will. More over as soon as we imbune the staff everyone immediately recognizes the Champion as Sheogorath without questioning if he actualy is the real thing. The only one who seems to know that the current Sheogorath is really the Champion is Haskil but even he doesnt question his orders or power.

The only reason we do not get uber powers at the level of a daedric prince is because this game has no real ending and we can still continue to play else we would be too powerful and even if there wasnt an actual ending we wouldnt be able to return to Cyrodiil because that would break the compacts that Haskil speaks of when we first enter.

However we can assume that the Champion never returned to Cyrodiil after SI as that was his/her last adventure and eventualy as Jyggalag stated - grew to his station.

So yes the Sheogorath in Skyrim is the Champion the things he says while we meet him confirm it and another proof that he is no longer the same Sheogorath is the fact he no longer has his trademark cane because during the SI storyline it lost its powers and we had to rebuild it as the Staff of Sheogorath.