antonkr Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Have fun weakening the empire and having the entire Tamriel be taken over by Thalmor stormcloaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Getting rid of the imperials in Skyrim won't really weaken the empire that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonkr Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Getting rid of the imperials in Skyrim won't really weaken the empire that much.It will. And Skyrim will be weak too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 There is not much in Skyrim that can greatly benefit the empire. The empire is a puppet government anyways. The Aldmeri Dominion already rule Tamriel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 There is not much in Skyrim that can greatly benefit the empire. The empire is a puppet government anyways. The Aldmeri Dominion already rule Tamriel. That was my take on it as well. The Thalmor have already forced a 'peace treaty' that bans worship of one of the nine.... (and since I always loved the blades, that really pissed me off.....) That, and the Thalmor hiring the dark brotherhood to take me out? Well, that sorta clinches it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeonitsoc Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 i've finished now to read all your comments, i thank some of you for your deep search and fine description of both sides and thalmor political threat; but i can't still decide. I'll leave that choice as my last quest, if i'll ever see the end of them before destrying the game with hundreds of mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaveygravey Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 The Empire is indeed keeping the elves out of Skyrim, but in the process are being used by the Thalmor. The Stormcloaks want an independent Skyrim, free of Empire and elven rule, but are reluctant to realize that their idea of civil war is actually playing right into the Thalmor's plans to weaken the empire. So who is better? After reading several books, it is under my understanding that the Thalmor are intending on taking over Skyrim politically rather than physically. Why risk another loss like the one the elves faced in Hammerfell, especially since this time it would be an army of elven hating, Talos loving, war hungry and battle hardened Nords. Also, if the Aldmeri Dominion attacked Skyrim directly, it would only give the citizens of Skyrim a legitimate reason to unite and fight off the elven invasion; and remember, the Aldmeri Dominion are rebuilding their ranks as well due to both losses to the Legion at the Battle of Red Ring and the Redguards at Hammerfell. That is why the Thalmor are allowing the Empire the thrive in Skyrim and turn their back in aiding the Empire in stopping Ulfric; they know the civil war will weaken BOTH regimes. Now that we know who the REAL enemy is, the true question is: who do I join to stop the elven invasion. The answer: it doesn't matter. Either faction will ultimately own all of Skyrim in the end, and, as the Dragonborn, your destiny to unite all of Tameriel under one banner will remain unchanged. In other words, rather you decided to join the Legion or the Stormcloaks, Skyrim WILL unite under one banner (whether it be the Legion banner or the Stormcloaks banner) and, with the newly founded Skyrim army, later take the fight to the real enemy - the elves. Talos did the same thing in Skyrim when he found out that he was the Dragonborn and destined to unite Tameriel, so it is only logical to see that you, as the new Dragonborn, would do the same. So in-game, it doesn't matter who you choose because the outcome will be the same. Also, do remember that you assassinate the current Emperor in one of the Dark Brotherhood quests. That's even more proof that you, as the Dragonborn, will unite all of Tameriel and rule it as their new and true Emperor. Now if this question would hit me in real life and, in fact, my decision would actually MATTER...I would choose the Stormcloaks. This is why: The Empire is to politically weak to unite the rest of Tameriel and wage another war. The Empire has lost all support and morale for their cause. To see the Empire actually stand up and fight the Aldmeri Dominion again would be very unlikely because they would have no support. The Stormcloaks, however, are more than willing to stand and fight the elves for their freedom and right to worship Talos. Religious freedom is their motivation, and with that they have more than enough courage to go toe-to-toe with the Aldmeri Dominion. It is true, however, that fighting the Empire would weaken the Empire...but if you're fighting for independence and a free Skyrim, what is the point in being in an Empire...or even having one for that matter? The Redguards realized this and that is why they seceded from the Empire; and even though casualties were high, the Redguards were successful in stopping the Aldmeri Dominion in their tracks; thus Hammerfell kept their sovereignty as an independent and free nation. Who's to say that the Nords can't do the same? If Hammerfell can do it, I am pretty damn sure the Nords could do it to. Also, the Thalmor want the civil war to last "awhile" in order to consume both regime's resources. If you read the dossier you would understand this. If the war is ended quickly, however, than both sides can combine their resources and soldiers and have more than enough to defend Skyrim from elven rule, thus destroying the Thalmor's plans. And as the Dragonborn, it is within your power to end the civil war very quickly. And as far as bigotry goes...you can't blame the Stormcloaks. They fought the elves during the Great War for 30 years and have seen how evil the mer (or elves) can be. To label every elf as a traitor is just normal. As Americans we have done it in every war...from fighting the Brits in the Revolutionary War to forcing Japanese citizens in concentration camps during World War 2 to even suspecting every Middle Eastern as a terrorist after 9/11...facing bigotry and racism is not only a problem in Skyrim but one in real life to. How we, as Americans, overcame our bigotry was with the healing power of time. Nowadays Japanese people can freely mingle with Americans, as so can British and Middle Eastern people...and this process of re adapting other cultures and races back into our society took TIME. The same will happen with Ulfric and the Stormcloaks. The Stormcloaks will realize that not every elf is bad...will realize how evil discriminating against elves is...will realize that even elves can be Skyrim citizens...through the power of time. The most important thing to realize is that it's just a game...so whoever you choose have fun with it...and slay dragons! 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morgananski Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 OKAY, so there is some things people have failed to mention that I would like to bring to light and I would also like to reiterate some things as well. First Ulfric was captured during the great war and was then let go by the Dominion because they saw how important he was. So if the Storm Cloaks take over, who knows maybe Ulfric will become a puppet after all and secretly that was the Dominions plans. I hate the Thalmor with a passion and I have dispatched as many as I could while I have been playing? IF you know where they tend to be let me know ;). Anyways so besides the fact that the Stormcloaks are racist to every race other than nord and Ulfric is a terrible leader those are my complaints. With the Empire, the Elves manipulating the empires laws is BS and it infuriates me and if you help the empire take over skyrim you will have taken out the worship of Talos completely. Which the Thalmor want out because it inspires the peopel of skyrim, that men can achieve god like status. SO I am level 30 now, I have yet do a mission for either and I am at the negioating table trying to sort out a temporary peace and I kicked out the THalmor right when i sat down. Couldnt stand that one being there. IF you knwo how to take her out, let me know. Anyways so I am stuck as to what I am goign to do. IF I could kill ulfic and lead the storm cloaks and introduce more tolerance then I would def lean towards storm cloaks. IF hammerfell can fight the dominion then so can Skyrim! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revenais Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I dunno, I was siding with the Stormcloaks for a while, but I couldn't decide. I mean, the Imperials were the ones trying to execute me in the beginning, so I naturally began to hate them at first. But then, the order was the work of a corrupt leader, not protocol for the Empire. So, it's more of a specific person. But then, there were a few things that bothered me. The first was when I went to solitude, and I talked to the Jarl there. The conversations there bothered me. I mean, Ulfric wasn't just some random idiot; he was conversing with the king. And the king really wanted to listen to him and rebel, but it was impossible. It wasn't that he wanted to obey the empire, it was just that he had no choice. I mean, what was he gonna do, let his people starve and die because they've been cut off from the empire? And then there's Markarth. The whole thing with Ulfric taking the city...That bugged me, too. I mean, come on, he's not the only one taking over places. The Forsworn were totally cool running Markarth and had a great king, and the Ulfric comes in and messes with it. And he lives that idiot gold-hungry swine in charge, who dumps the king in the mines and kills anybody who asks questions...Seriously, guys? I mean, I know I'm probably biased because my first character was Breton and the Forsworn are Breton, but you'd think that it'd be common sense not to invade other people's territories and then try to liberate your own country. It's hypocritical. I haven't chosen who I'm going with yet, but I'm strongly leaning towards the empire right now. I think I might eventually create a Nord and go for the Stormcloaks, but I can't imagine going with such anti-foreigners, especially with my character being a foreigner and all. The only thing I think we can all agree on....the Thalmor need to die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasperTheLich Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 In my humble opinion the empire died with martin during the oblivion invasion, it simply took this long for it to bleedout. I also think corruption spread rapidly through the political & military wings of the empire because the lack of a legitimate clamant to the imperial throne. (as in you have influential leaders’ dicking each other over to gather more influence, ala power vacuum) and as such the empire doesn’t resemble what it was originally, it has been warped into a mockery of what it once was. Now my first and current character is a darkelf, I think killing about 400 imperial soldiers mostly by herself (as the friendly npcs were fairly useless in combat) was enough to get the stormcloak nords she fought for to be more accepting of other races (or at least hers). I mean giving a darkelf a name like stormblade, that’s got to count for something. And the whole imperial patrol abducting her off the trail and having her executed for no reason… I forgot where I was heading, well… anyway. Finish off the dead empire and rebuild it, using the dominion invasion as a rallying call to unify the provinces (like during the akaviri invasion, just on a larger scale); after signing on with to stormcloaks to free skyrim. That's my current plan for skyrim/empire/thalmor aftermath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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