On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[rentak]

In response to post #39476635. #39477620 is also a reply to the same post.

weirdestkidyoullevermeet2 wrote: tldr
sounds like youre defending the cancerous toxic community that completely ruined all mod makers and forced people into disabling their mods on this site because of how much you didnt protect their content

jim_uk wrote: How can he protect their content?

Dark0ne has no obligation to stop people from uploading mods to other sites. Completely ignoring the fact that nobody, including the owner of Nexus, can stop somebody from uploading a mod to Bethesda (except Bethesda), Nexus provides a platform to download mods, unless you break the rules on the Nexus site, he and his team can't do anything.
You'll also find that most of the authors that have been extremely outspoken about the issue are on a first name basis with Dark0ne. They all like and respect him. Mainly because he's gone out of his way, for years, to safeguard the mod authors who upload to his site. He's still doing that.
Pulling a totally unsubstantiated number out of a hat, I'd say that 99% of console users are just that: Users. Not modders. Most of them wouldn't even know how to upload a mod with the creation kit. These people are no different to the Nexus than you are. They are potential site users. Dark0ne is good at his job, part of which is to keep his users and uploaders content. He'd be pretty bad at his job to be attacking potential site browsers based on the platform they use when only 1% of them (probably less) are breaking his rules.

[PonceMonster]

In response to post #39476635. #39477620, #39479055 are all replies on the same post.

weirdestkidyoullevermeet2 wrote: tldr
sounds like youre defending the cancerous toxic community that completely ruined all mod makers and forced people into disabling their mods on this site because of how much you didnt protect their content

jim_uk wrote: How can he protect their content?

rentak wrote: Dark0ne has no obligation to stop people from uploading mods to other sites. Completely ignoring the fact that nobody, including the owner of Nexus, can stop somebody from uploading a mod to Bethesda (except Bethesda), Nexus provides a platform to download mods, unless you break the rules on the Nexus site, he and his team can't do anything.
You'll also find that most of the authors that have been extremely outspoken about the issue are on a first name basis with Dark0ne. They all like and respect him. Mainly because he's gone out of his way, for years, to safeguard the mod authors who upload to his site. He's still doing that.
Pulling a totally unsubstantiated number out of a hat, I'd say that 99% of console users are just that: Users. Not modders. Most of them wouldn't even know how to upload a mod with the creation kit. These people are no different to the Nexus than you are. They are potential site users. Dark0ne is good at his job, part of which is to keep his users and uploaders content. He'd be pretty bad at his job to be attacking potential site browsers based on the platform they use when only 1% of them (probably less) are breaking his rules.

Hey you don't have to go into context. You can already tell that he's a kid from the username, you're not helping anybody...

[PonceMonster]

In response to post #39477440. #39478350, #39478925 are all replies on the same post.

DumdogsWorld wrote: I'm sorry, but as soon as you all said we don't have the right to charge for mods, you said that the mods indeed don't belong to the authors. They apparently belong to Bethesda. So if they're on Bethesda.net, I don't see what the problem is.

PonceMonster wrote: WHAT?!?!?! WHO SAID ROBIN WAS AGAINST THIS!! GET YOUR s#*! TOGETHER MAN, READ THE ARTICLE. Or watch the Gtymka, because clearly you don't .. nvm.

Thumblesteen wrote: Actually, mods are derivative of copyrighted material. So, Bethesda has all the right in the world to say that they don't want people selling things based on their software.

And then there's the fact that in order to actually sell a mod legally as a product, you need to be a registered company, so that you can pay income taxes. Something which literally nobody did.

And, I'm not defending this, nor would I ever prostitute my artistic expression for money. I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm just saying, it was never a right. In fact, it wasn't even done legally. This is capitalism we're talking about, you have no rights unless you can afford to buy them. They've spent the last three centuries perfecting that particular formula.

And corporations telling you what to do is something you should get used to. Because they've basically been their own law enforcement agencies through the use of contracts, licences, legal firms and credit companies since the 1980's.

hey uhmmm... I said no one was against paid modding, and that the people that are, aren't even on this comment section, nor relevant. :/ Or maybe I deleted that part... idk

[Jebbalon]

In response to post #39478660. #39478845 is also a reply to the same post.

Jebbalon wrote: Thank you Dark0ne, I for one enjoy your level-headed take on the subject. You have always had your finger on the pulse of the modding community and the Nexus reflects that.

My opinions...

- Bethesda.net is a "new wheel". It's ruff and not all that round. In comparison The Nexus is a badass Lamborghini. Given time, will Bethesda.net get better? Sure. Is the modding community and the console community patient enough to wait? Hell no!

- Bethesda's inability to punish thieves by banning them ... Can they? The CK, and ability to make mods, the in-game function to download mods and the Bethesda.net to upload mods is all provided as part of the purchase price of the game. The thief paid for all that. So can the company that provides all that really just pull the plug on them?? I think they can't and the thieves know it.

2 ideas I'd like to put out there...

1. For the Nexus - is there at all a way to add NMM into the in-game mod browsing functionality? Beth would have to release its API or whatever/however it works, but could that maybe be a possibility down the road?

2. For the community - Could there be a master file type mod released containing certain keywords or global variable that then would be required to have in order for mods to work? In my mod I'd simply add the keywords and make that file a master. The idea being that if my mod is stolen it won't work without the master file and I don't have to worry about keeping track of other sites because the master file mod is being tracked. So moderators and such only have to watch out for the master mod not all the other stolen mods. Of course bypassing that system would be too easy but it's just an idea to build on.

PonceMonster wrote: Most thieves are just careless children, if you didn't know... there's no way talking to them, so what's happening there has to do with bethesda just letting it happen. No one said anyone has to get cut off, but they certainly should get banned from uploading any mods.

I agree they should get banned - I'm just saying Beth may not be able to legally whereas Nexus is an at will relationship, you screw up and you get banned. On Bethesda.net it's not that easy I think.

[PonceMonster]

In response to post #39477705. #39477825, #39478135 are all replies on the same post.

The Matrix Prime wrote: Really?

Dislike against "console mods" is a thing? Like a real thing? Not something made up like "Homophobia" or "Islamicphobia" or something? I mean, I've never felt anything but sorry for people who had no other option but to use the console - mods are the reason I stopped playing on the X-Box (other then occasionally) and play games on the computer instead. If consoles can use mods too - which is big news - then it only means the community grows even larger. Isn't that a good thing?

Why would the idea of "console modding" annoy anybody? I still have trouble believing that it's a real thing - at least the way the Dark0ne describes. If you don't use a console, then what real difference to you is it going to make? And if you do, wouldn't it be a good thing? I mean the atrocious (read British) spelling on Nexus annoys me far more then the concept of "console modding" and I download from Nexus nearly every week (use to be everyday before work-life increased).

As to mod theft, it's a very ugly thing for someone to do, but I don't really see how "console modding" really affects that one way or the other. If people are going to steal, they are going to do regardless of consoles being able to mod. And while "stealing" someone's mod - which I understand is really stealing the credit for creating said mod - is certainly wrong, it's not like anyone is getting paid for it - so I can understand why Bethsaida wouldn't care much. I mean, when people over in Asia were downloading mods and SELLING them on disks in stores, I could understand the outrage - but in this case, a few sleazy types are just fooling new gullible console users into thinking that the sleazebags made the mod when it was in fact someone else. A rather sleazy thing to do just to try to get your 15 minutes of fame, but it's not really hurting anyone. Eventually the console users will gain experience and these sleazy types will have to move on.

Don't get me wrong, I think its bad, but it's not exactly a crisis. I mean, if it means that much, the original authors (or someone) can PM every user that downloads a "stolen" mod and tell them who the actual credit belongs too.

jackty89 wrote: Yes hate against console mods a thing, i think the grudge for some people start because of , 1. Console exclusives 2. Console fanboy-ism shitting on PC and mods (aka mods are cheats) 3. The ungratefulness of console users etc etc but some people take these thing rather serious and that how "hate" can start manifesting itself

Ethreon wrote: Didn't know homophobia is made up. I think you need a touch of realism.

Agreed.

[rentak]

Watch out man, people gonna start making "Gaben" style memes of you if you keep being such a stand up guy.

Gonna be hilarious.

 

Thanks for being cool, man. Prepare for the consequences :)

[imbadatgames69]

"Extreme-right"

Don't possibly see how "right"(if you actually understand what it means on the political spectrum) falls in line with PC mustard race. I'd guess it's probably just a form of projection and lashing out at things you don't like.

[PonceMonster]

In response to post #39477025. #39477795 is also a reply to the same post.

undead4110 wrote: Give me your address so i can come hang your ugly ass.

Not joking, if i can do it il f*#@ing kill your ugly mug.

Its cockroaches like you who enabled dlc in the first place and you aint taking modding from us this time you little s#*!, il hunt your f*#@ing ass if i have to.

izzier2750 wrote: Might I ask the reasoning for such intent?

Do you perhaps wish to take over Dark0ne's website (Nexus) all on your own? Do you want all the responsibilities that come with it?
Or do you just wanna claim all his past work as your own, as he is indeed addressing? Did you even read all 5k+ words, or just TL;DR's to the console modding bits?


In the more likely scenario, you probably just royally f*#@ed up with a comment thingy, meant to reply to someone else. Is that right?

Robin is love, robin is life. This means you just f*#@ed with the god, boi. Come get that spankin!

[kealoz]

Back in the golden days when the modding community invigorated the mood (regardless of aggravations back then too), nowadays it just seems every time I check back in with the community it just makes me more tired. There's always been dark spots, blame and theft and tension but lately it just seems to have been taken to extreme levels. Idiots blaming all console users for theft clearly not their fault, Bethesda doing little about it, wars being fought in mod comment sections. Kind of depressing to see how far we've devolved. Hope there's a light at the end of the tunnel and we can get back to the days paranoia free modding.

 

P.S. Violent discussion doesn't solve the problem, it exacerbates it. If you have a point to say keep it calm and rational. We're civilized, not dark age savages.

[grands4everyone]

In response to post #39472780. #39473085, #39473940, #39475870 are all replies on the same post.

axonis wrote: The article needs a bit of cleanup because it currently looks like a straw man argument:

"mods on console are bad due to how it’s affecting the PC modding community" (direct quote from the article) because Bethesda.net doesn't respect author's rights diligently enough ?

These are different things. While the latter is probably correct, I just don't understand how it relates to the former.

Kukassin wrote: Different things, but they definitely collide.

Some people are taking down their work even from the Nexus so it won't be the target of theft, and as such, this is hurting even the Nexus community.

Some are even implementing DRM of sorts so console versions of the game will get mauled and won't work.

As long as mod authors see the console community support blatant theft and tell the original authors to f*#@ off and that they are elitist cunts in the Beth.net comments section (that is a very very common thing), they will puff the f*#@ up and deny access to their work. That is the fault of the console community and that is why not respecting the authors (on Bethesda's AND the community's part) and console modding both affect the PC community in a bad way.

Dark0ne wrote: You're quoting my rhetorical quote from an aside (within the "time out" section) as if it was the main point of the article. So basically, you're misquoting me there.

axonis wrote: OK then, but why are consoles mentioned in this article ? It seems to be only related to Bethesda.net

read the ENTIRE article