On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[arenthefox]

In response to post #39510315. #39511175, #39511945 are all replies on the same post.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: Dark0ne, I agree with some of what you said but I must remind you of a couple of things.

1) Console Users did not create this community or enable this site to become what it is today.
2) I am not aware of any contribution Console gaming has provided PC Users other then the dumbing down of game content across the board.
3) There is little chance for revenue to be made by you from console gaming unless you plan on selling us out in the future or that technology drastically changes, which I don't see happening any time soon.

In short I feel PC gamers have every right to be elitists to some extent because we are not just consumers, we contribute. I realize that our contributions are taken for granted by the industry and are only allowed to continue because they see a financial advantage in doing so, but regardless of that you cannot belittle people for wanting to protect this community from vultures who want to rake in as much profit with as little effort as possible.

I would suggest you remember who made your successful site possible and avoid sh!tting where you sleep. In the immortal words of President Obama, You didn't build that by yourself.

boomerizer wrote: MrJoseCuervo:

Nice, coming from someone that stole their name from a tequila brand.

OK so
1) Many PC gamers I'm sure own consoles. Myself included. But you may be partially right. I've only endorsed one thing in the last year.
2) Well, until you invent the console controller that includes 108 keys (not including mouse functions), then "dumbing down" is insanely short sighted, bigoted, and beyond ignorant.
3) Egh, I don't understand the point of that jumble of garbage.

Nobody reserves any right to be elitist in any extent. Not only are you being elitist, but you are being an exlusionist-- as if there are people that SHOULDN'T be allowed to enjoy mods. Simply because of the platform they choose to play on. Console mods have only been available for a month. PC mods have been available for nearly 30 years. I don't want to hear s#*! about console gamers not being contributors. Not everyone that owns a gaming quality PC only owns a PC. I own a PC, a Macbook Pro, an XBox One and a PS4. We also have a 3DS and PSVita (had two of each for a time) At one time we also had a WiiU in the house.

So, for you, I would not recommend shitting on gamers. You know. People that aren't elitist. People that don't choose sides in platforms because each has their advantage.

You know why I have consoles? Because I don't want to have to worry about whether or not my PC can run it. Or having to download multiple third party programs to get something to work.

Y'know, even on PC I play Skyrim and Fallout 4 with an Afterglow wired Xbox One controller. It's not "dumbed down", its streamlined. Dumbed down is what SOE did to Star Wars Galaxies in 2007. Dumbed down is what Ion Storm did to Deus Ex: Invisible War (yes, to make it more accessible to console gamers because CONSOLE GAMING IS A HUGE MARKET).

Whether you like it or not (and I know you don't), but consoles are a huge part of gaming. Video games would not be anywhere near as big as they are today without the Nintento Entertainment System. Which, y'know, was a console. In case you forgot. Mario, video gamings biggest mascot...from a console game. Master Chief, y'know from Halo. Another video game juggernaut... console. You don't have to like it...

But you should learn to respect it.

vram1974 wrote: > In short I feel PC gamers have every right to be elitists

Agreed with everything you wrote.

@MrJoseCuervo: PC gamers who have contributed to the community by creating mods and content can be elitists to a tolerable amount. However, a good part of the group Dark0ne is talking about, the obnoxious elitists, have likely done nothing of the sort, and instead just play games and use mods without giving back, and talk s#*! about console gamers for no other reason than that they don't use the same platform.

Also, just because PC gamers created the modding community, doesn't mean we should shun, exclude, or treat console owners like second-class gamers; they like video games, and they want to use and maybe make some cool mods just like us. They probably play a lot of the same games aside from Bethesda titles, too. Acting like a snob just because you own the platform modding started on does nothing but deepen the divide in the gaming community. Edited June 18, 2016 by arenthefox

[arenthefox]

In response to post #39507270. #39507355, #39507735 are all replies on the same post.

arenthefox wrote: Basically, for those of you that couldn't finish reading this article for one reason or another, here's the gist of it.

- The mod authors ALONE own their mods and Bethesda and Zenimax ONLY own licenses to them.

- Bethesda needs to police their s#*! better.

- If you did not create a mod, then you have no goddamn right or privilege to upload it anywhere UNLESS the actual author has given you permission to do so.

- Console gamers are NOT beneath PC gamers and PC gamers are NOT beneath console gamers; we're ALL gamers.

- Saying console gamers shouldn't have mods at all just because they're not PC gamers is a freakin' stupid argument and if it's your argument then YOU are stupid. This is also a completely valid point, because this kind of unnecessary and idiotic elitism is nothing but a detriment to the community.

- And finally, mod authors do this s#*! for FREE and the content is mainly for them, NOT you. That means they don't have to upload it to any site or platform they don't want to, AND they don't have to listen to anyone that wants to demand, whine, or request they add something to their mod or make a new one. Don't like it? Don't use the mod and/or make your own.

CAUTION: This post is a paraphrase of the above article and may not include every single point made, and while attempting to be insult free, it may still offend some readers.

boomerizer wrote: It's a good/accurate paraphrase. Thanks for doing so.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Nailed... well said!

Shameful self-bump...
Cause maybe more people seeing this might help stop some of the asinine comments, or at least clear up some confusion with the article.

[MarchinBunny]

In response to post #39498570.

bigdeano89 wrote: Sigh, the ignorant comments coming from some folks here is unbelieveable, to the point that I think you must either be children or trolls to have this mindset. Most of these people even admit to "not reading the whole article" but somehow their insight has to be more valuable than the damn article you are commenting on.

Heres the gist, shrunk down into a smaller size so you can understand. Mod authors DO own their mods, Bethesda and Zenimax own the LICENSE to it (and thats ONLY if made with the creation kit. If they make them by any other means, Zenimax dont own anything). That license does NOT extend to users. That does NOT give anyone the right to take and upload the mods without permission from the authors, END.OF.STORY.

No more of this BS "I own the game, I can do what I want", no, you cant, and you are childish or a troll if you believe thats true.

I am of the argument that, while I don't agree with mods being stolen, I think it's better to make it less of a big deal, because it's only making the situation worse.

Remember what the music industry did back when piracy was rather new? There are always going to be people who do not respect your wishes. Also, in many cases, it's not even someone who is trying to be disrespectful, it's just someone who enjoys your content and wants to share it with others.

Now, you can do what the music industry did and try your best to prevent piracy. Or you can accept that there is very little you can do to stop it entirely and it's probably best to just embrace it and work along with it, rather than against it. If this trend continues with mods on consoles, you can be sure .. eventually we will come to a point where trying to stop your mod from being uploaded will just be impossible unless you don't mind spending most of your time doing take downs.

Again, it's not that I agree with people stealing mods, I just think it's going to come to a point where .. it will be too much work to try and prevent it.

[EagleRaptor1522]

Now what do we mean by "Mod theft?" Taking mods from other sites and uploading them here and vice versa, or using assets from other mods to create "new" ones?

[FalloutVeteran2009]

Still haven't read it. Trying to make a new armor for an actor I know that got killed. I think what you all need is a better way to spend your time. Just saying. Good Luck && Have Fun...

[PinkSamantha]

In response to post #39467495. #39507160, #39508060, #39508150, #39509035, #39511705, #39513590, #39514025, #39514065, #39514440 are all replies on the same post.

GamerPoets wrote: This is something that I shared in a different forum/site and while that topic was slightly different it was still brought about because of the topic here. I thought I'd paste what I wrote here for those of you who care to read it.
------------------

This is a generalized statement. I have no problem talking directly to individuals if I feel that I need to lol, so don't think that I'm beating around the bush. I just felt the need to share my thoughts on the subject at large. If I didn't respect everyone's comments thus far I wouldn't take the time to type this. There are some people that I have a lot of respect for who are posting in this topic, who have done a lot to help me on my modding journey and I wanted to share my thoughts with them.

What I feel this all comes down to is this...

Creative property in any form (music, television, paintings, mods) is one or more people devoting a large amount of their life (whether it's hours, weeks, months or years) to something that they believe in one way or another.

Regarding mods and nexus and other sites, there should definitely be some sort of check box or something that says "yes, allow others to use my mod as they wish" "no, you cannot upload it elsewhere" " after this amount of time you can... blah blah blah" or whatever.. you know? I also feel that once someone uploads a mod that shouldn't be able to just pull it away from those who use it by removing it (I'll say why at the end of this book I'm writing lol) But none of that exists yet as far as I know so it's a moot point.

So..

To guess at what someone else is feeling about this subject, if they have not said anything either way about it, (before disappearing or not) or to think that they "should" feel how you do on the subject (whether they actually do agree or not) is selfish, un-thoughtful and borderline narcissistic among other things. Words have definitions and regarding this situation to take someone else's work (and don't be fooled, because whether it is "fun" or not it is "work") is to be those words and that type of person. (The type of person that most people in this community want nothing to do with and to not be a part of. Which is the only reason why people like me even consider to continue being a part of it and to put so much effort into what we do. There is enough BS in "real life" that I don't need it to ooze into my passions or hobbies and many feel that way, too. The reason that many stick around the community, and continue to create mods and to support it, damn sure isn't the replay-ability of Skyrim for 5 years+lol).

Summary of all that: If you don't know how someone feels it's not your place to assume (that's with anything in life)...continuing on =)

If someone says that credit is enough then cool, credit them and do as you wish. But if someone states that they want their mods only on nexus then they should be respected. You don't know what creating that mod did for this person. It could have been their way to get through a tough time in life. It could have been something that they poured every piece of themselves into creatively to prove to themselves that they could do it. It could be a simple form of therapy or just a hobby. Perhaps the mod author has something against the other sites. Perhaps the mod author has a strong personal connection to nexus and they want to give back to it for whatever nexus "gave" to them personally when they needed something to be given to them. It's not your "right" to guess or to even be allowed to know how they feel unless they care to share their reasons with you.

When someone pours as much effort into their creative works as many mod authors do, taking their mod and uploading it elsewhere is like me taking anything that you have worked hard on, that you hold dear to yourself, and tossing it around in the mud like it's no big deal. ...Yes, that's exactly what it's like to some people and it's not your decision to say that they shouldn't feel how they do about it. As a human being you should respect their efforts and the fact that they made it public for anyone to use at all. More importantly, you should respect their feelings and your potential lack of understanding about them.

On the other hand, when someone makes a song and sells it (just an example) and puts it on the radio there are large amounts of people who will fall in love with it. Once you have created something and given it to the world it is no longer 100% the creators. It's just not. There's no two ways about it. When you allow someone else to develop an attachment to something (minor or large, emotional or whatever) that you have created you have entitled that person to be able to listen to it, watch it, or use it, whatever it is as often as they care too or need to. If the initial requirements were for that person to pay for it upfront so be it. If the wishes of this person were for you to only play with these works on a specific version of a game, then that is what they are. You don't need a law to tell you how not to be an A-hole. If you have the desire to bring that mod to a "new level" then "you" "need" to do the work and put that same care and effort into as the original creator did to both respect and honor it and not just "bootleg their CD" and give it out elsewhere... because when you do that you go from being a supporter who deserves you're own piece of what you fell in love with, regarding their work, to a hustler (which I know a great deal about in "real life" lol). A hustler who may not have only ruined this experience/passtime/hobby/passion/whatever that a mod author (person) once needed but you have potentially robbed them of their passion by tainting it with selfish actions. Who know's what creating these mods really allowed this person to get through in life. And if they are being a dick to others... have you heard how horrible people in comments can be and how annoying? I didn't create a video called "The (bad placed here word lol) Song" for nothing. Perhaps this experience has already been ruined for them and they only keep their mods up on nexus out of respect for some or with hopes of regaining the feeling that they once had for this community.

As I stated at the beginning of this long wall of text... "it comes down to this"... to be a decent human-being and to understand what it means to be one.

If anyone doesn't understand that (and the majority of what I have wrote) they have a lot to learn about this very short life that we are living. Not everyone who creates a mod views them as "trading cards".

Sure, modding is about having fun and sharing that fun with other people... TO YOU, that is what modding is =) ... and mostly to me = )... but that doesn't mean that our, my, or our thoughts and feelings allow us to take something that we didn't create and to do what we wish with it. Mods may be pass-times and ways to not be bored for some but for others they are life saving acts of creativity or monuments of personal growth.

-----------
after typing this all out there was a comment that had been written in between and I liked what was said as it helped to define the point even further

Anonymous Poster: "All I’m saying is...I do not think Leonardo da Vinci has a right to say that no alterations of the Mona Lisa can be made. I think it is ethically acceptable for these to exist, even if the author does not want them to."

----------------
Me: I like the Mono Lisa statement. You're right and people DO modify the Mono Lisa all of the time. However, they aren't allowed to simply paint over the original copy. They have to either recreate it from scratch and make adjustments as they go or use a photocopy of some sorts, but still, it's not the original version... not to mention that Leo has been long dead and his emotional attachments to his work are probably justifiably assumed to no longer be what they once were... however, we still do everything that we can to protect and honor the original... what a sexy lady she is lol

Goodnight.

jace14 wrote: if bumps are allowed in this forum, here is a bump

CaladanAnduril wrote: Str8 to the point ! Bravo !

boomerizer wrote: I second this bump.

And to further, it's not that I don't appreciate the modders that create the work.
I just don't hold any real care about the origin. Only that the mod that I see is available for use. I don't know many modders by name. Even for the mods that I absolutely love-- Skyrim ones, specifically. I know Azar but that is only because each mod ends with "by Azar". Beyond that. I don't know who made Falskaar. I don't know who made Forgotten City. I don't know who made Better Shaped Weapons. But I absolutely love these mods for Skyrim.

For Fallout 4, I use NCR Veteran Ranger Armor, Patriotic Shield and Commonwealth Cuts. I don't know the names of the modders. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate that they are available to me. Two of those three mods aren't available on Xbox though. And that makes me a sad panda.

That said, NCR Veteran Ranger armor WAS at one point available in a mod pack (Spawn Items) that allowed a user to spawn items from the game, as well as included others' mods, including NCR VRA. The author of Spawn Items did not credit the mod author of NCRVRA and to me, I can't really see why they are upset because once uploaded to the internet, you should want your work distributed. ( I mean does it really matter WHO downloads it? Just that someone is enjoying it?)

I mean, I don't know the name of the cook that makes my gourmet burgers at BT's or Five Guys or wherever I order my burgers from. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate the burger delivered to me by the waiter/waitress. We thank the waiter/waitress when the food is brought to us, but the person that actually MADE the burger goes thankless.

Think that makes any more sense? I mean, seems relevant to me..

arenthefox wrote: My eyes hurt from staring at this post, but I agree with everything. Of course, you said it a lot better and nicer than I'd ever be able to.

Kalell wrote: When someone creates a mod I like I always check to see what the username of the person is when I go back to endorse the file. I've made a few mods myself and I know how much time and effort goes into making them. Checking to see what the authors name is is the least I can do in return for them sharing their work, and it will help me recognize anything else they do in the future. I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't want to know the name of someone that worked really hard on something they liked and uploaded it for people to use for free.

boomerizer wrote: For the same reason I don't bother with the credits at the end of a TV Show, Movie, or Game.

PinkSamantha wrote: edit: damn, double post. If Robin, Dante, SirSalami or any staff is around, would you mind to remove this post? Thank you very much and sorry for the trouble.

Kalell wrote: So you just don't care to know who the people are that make the entertainment you enjoy, so long as they are allowing you to use it? In the case of media that you pay for I understand that, but recognition is the only thing mod authors get.

PinkSamantha wrote: @Kalell
Just ignore him.
And thanks for the opinion. Completely agreed with you.

"When someone pours as much effort into their creative works as many mod authors do, taking their mod and uploading it elsewhere is like me taking anything that you have worked hard on, that you hold dear to yourself, and tossing it around in the mud like it's no big deal. ...Yes, that's exactly what it's like to some people and it's not your decision to say that they shouldn't feel how they do about it. As a human being you should respect their efforts and the fact that they made it public for anyone to use at all. More importantly, you should respect their feelings and your potential lack of understanding about them."

Couldn't say it better myself.

And, uh... Mono Lisa? As in, Non-Stereo Lisa? I hope it's just a typo.

But seriously, thank you very much for the opinion. Edited June 18, 2016 by PinkSamantha

[Kalell]

In response to post #39467495. #39507160, #39508060, #39508150, #39509035, #39511705, #39513590, #39513965, #39514025 are all replies on the same post.

GamerPoets wrote: This is something that I shared in a different forum/site and while that topic was slightly different it was still brought about because of the topic here. I thought I'd paste what I wrote here for those of you who care to read it.
------------------

This is a generalized statement. I have no problem talking directly to individuals if I feel that I need to lol, so don't think that I'm beating around the bush. I just felt the need to share my thoughts on the subject at large. If I didn't respect everyone's comments thus far I wouldn't take the time to type this. There are some people that I have a lot of respect for who are posting in this topic, who have done a lot to help me on my modding journey and I wanted to share my thoughts with them.

What I feel this all comes down to is this...

Creative property in any form (music, television, paintings, mods) is one or more people devoting a large amount of their life (whether it's hours, weeks, months or years) to something that they believe in one way or another.

Regarding mods and nexus and other sites, there should definitely be some sort of check box or something that says "yes, allow others to use my mod as they wish" "no, you cannot upload it elsewhere" " after this amount of time you can... blah blah blah" or whatever.. you know? I also feel that once someone uploads a mod that shouldn't be able to just pull it away from those who use it by removing it (I'll say why at the end of this book I'm writing lol) But none of that exists yet as far as I know so it's a moot point.

So..

To guess at what someone else is feeling about this subject, if they have not said anything either way about it, (before disappearing or not) or to think that they "should" feel how you do on the subject (whether they actually do agree or not) is selfish, un-thoughtful and borderline narcissistic among other things. Words have definitions and regarding this situation to take someone else's work (and don't be fooled, because whether it is "fun" or not it is "work") is to be those words and that type of person. (The type of person that most people in this community want nothing to do with and to not be a part of. Which is the only reason why people like me even consider to continue being a part of it and to put so much effort into what we do. There is enough BS in "real life" that I don't need it to ooze into my passions or hobbies and many feel that way, too. The reason that many stick around the community, and continue to create mods and to support it, damn sure isn't the replay-ability of Skyrim for 5 years+lol).

Summary of all that: If you don't know how someone feels it's not your place to assume (that's with anything in life)...continuing on =)

If someone says that credit is enough then cool, credit them and do as you wish. But if someone states that they want their mods only on nexus then they should be respected. You don't know what creating that mod did for this person. It could have been their way to get through a tough time in life. It could have been something that they poured every piece of themselves into creatively to prove to themselves that they could do it. It could be a simple form of therapy or just a hobby. Perhaps the mod author has something against the other sites. Perhaps the mod author has a strong personal connection to nexus and they want to give back to it for whatever nexus "gave" to them personally when they needed something to be given to them. It's not your "right" to guess or to even be allowed to know how they feel unless they care to share their reasons with you.

When someone pours as much effort into their creative works as many mod authors do, taking their mod and uploading it elsewhere is like me taking anything that you have worked hard on, that you hold dear to yourself, and tossing it around in the mud like it's no big deal. ...Yes, that's exactly what it's like to some people and it's not your decision to say that they shouldn't feel how they do about it. As a human being you should respect their efforts and the fact that they made it public for anyone to use at all. More importantly, you should respect their feelings and your potential lack of understanding about them.

On the other hand, when someone makes a song and sells it (just an example) and puts it on the radio there are large amounts of people who will fall in love with it. Once you have created something and given it to the world it is no longer 100% the creators. It's just not. There's no two ways about it. When you allow someone else to develop an attachment to something (minor or large, emotional or whatever) that you have created you have entitled that person to be able to listen to it, watch it, or use it, whatever it is as often as they care too or need to. If the initial requirements were for that person to pay for it upfront so be it. If the wishes of this person were for you to only play with these works on a specific version of a game, then that is what they are. You don't need a law to tell you how not to be an A-hole. If you have the desire to bring that mod to a "new level" then "you" "need" to do the work and put that same care and effort into as the original creator did to both respect and honor it and not just "bootleg their CD" and give it out elsewhere... because when you do that you go from being a supporter who deserves you're own piece of what you fell in love with, regarding their work, to a hustler (which I know a great deal about in "real life" lol). A hustler who may not have only ruined this experience/passtime/hobby/passion/whatever that a mod author (person) once needed but you have potentially robbed them of their passion by tainting it with selfish actions. Who know's what creating these mods really allowed this person to get through in life. And if they are being a dick to others... have you heard how horrible people in comments can be and how annoying? I didn't create a video called "The (bad placed here word lol) Song" for nothing. Perhaps this experience has already been ruined for them and they only keep their mods up on nexus out of respect for some or with hopes of regaining the feeling that they once had for this community.

As I stated at the beginning of this long wall of text... "it comes down to this"... to be a decent human-being and to understand what it means to be one.

If anyone doesn't understand that (and the majority of what I have wrote) they have a lot to learn about this very short life that we are living. Not everyone who creates a mod views them as "trading cards".

Sure, modding is about having fun and sharing that fun with other people... TO YOU, that is what modding is =) ... and mostly to me = )... but that doesn't mean that our, my, or our thoughts and feelings allow us to take something that we didn't create and to do what we wish with it. Mods may be pass-times and ways to not be bored for some but for others they are life saving acts of creativity or monuments of personal growth.

-----------
after typing this all out there was a comment that had been written in between and I liked what was said as it helped to define the point even further

Anonymous Poster: "All I’m saying is...I do not think Leonardo da Vinci has a right to say that no alterations of the Mona Lisa can be made. I think it is ethically acceptable for these to exist, even if the author does not want them to."

----------------
Me: I like the Mono Lisa statement. You're right and people DO modify the Mono Lisa all of the time. However, they aren't allowed to simply paint over the original copy. They have to either recreate it from scratch and make adjustments as they go or use a photocopy of some sorts, but still, it's not the original version... not to mention that Leo has been long dead and his emotional attachments to his work are probably justifiably assumed to no longer be what they once were... however, we still do everything that we can to protect and honor the original... what a sexy lady she is lol

Goodnight.

jace14 wrote: if bumps are allowed in this forum, here is a bump

CaladanAnduril wrote: Str8 to the point ! Bravo !

boomerizer wrote: I second this bump.

And to further, it's not that I don't appreciate the modders that create the work.
I just don't hold any real care about the origin. Only that the mod that I see is available for use. I don't know many modders by name. Even for the mods that I absolutely love-- Skyrim ones, specifically. I know Azar but that is only because each mod ends with "by Azar". Beyond that. I don't know who made Falskaar. I don't know who made Forgotten City. I don't know who made Better Shaped Weapons. But I absolutely love these mods for Skyrim.

For Fallout 4, I use NCR Veteran Ranger Armor, Patriotic Shield and Commonwealth Cuts. I don't know the names of the modders. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate that they are available to me. Two of those three mods aren't available on Xbox though. And that makes me a sad panda.

That said, NCR Veteran Ranger armor WAS at one point available in a mod pack (Spawn Items) that allowed a user to spawn items from the game, as well as included others' mods, including NCR VRA. The author of Spawn Items did not credit the mod author of NCRVRA and to me, I can't really see why they are upset because once uploaded to the internet, you should want your work distributed. ( I mean does it really matter WHO downloads it? Just that someone is enjoying it?)

I mean, I don't know the name of the cook that makes my gourmet burgers at BT's or Five Guys or wherever I order my burgers from. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate the burger delivered to me by the waiter/waitress. We thank the waiter/waitress when the food is brought to us, but the person that actually MADE the burger goes thankless.

Think that makes any more sense? I mean, seems relevant to me..

arenthefox wrote: My eyes hurt from staring at this post, but I agree with everything. Of course, you said it a lot better and nicer than I'd ever be able to.

Kalell wrote: When someone creates a mod I like I always check to see what the username of the person is when I go back to endorse the file. I've made a few mods myself and I know how much time and effort goes into making them. Checking to see what the authors name is is the least I can do in return for them sharing their work, and it will help me recognize anything else they do in the future. I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't want to know the name of someone that worked really hard on something they liked and uploaded it for people to use for free.

boomerizer wrote: For the same reason I don't bother with the credits at the end of a TV Show, Movie, or Game.

PinkSamantha wrote: "When someone pours as much effort into their creative works as many mod authors do, taking their mod and uploading it elsewhere is like me taking anything that you have worked hard on, that you hold dear to yourself, and tossing it around in the mud like it's no big deal. ...Yes, that's exactly what it's like to some people and it's not your decision to say that they shouldn't feel how they do about it. As a human being you should respect their efforts and the fact that they made it public for anyone to use at all. More importantly, you should respect their feelings and your potential lack of understanding about them."

Couldn't say it better myself.

And, uh... Mono Lisa? As in, Non-Stereo Lisa? I hope it's just a typo.

But seriously, thank you very much for the opinion. It's a well thought and mature one. I like it very much.

PinkSamantha wrote: edit: damn, double post. If Robin, Dante, SirSalami or any staff is around, would you mind to remove this post? Thank you very much and sorry for the trouble.

So you just don't care to know who the people are that make the entertainment you enjoy, so long as they are allowing you to use it? In the case of media that you pay for I understand that, but recognition is the only thing mod authors get. Edited June 18, 2016 by Kalell

[hex77x]

I read this entire essay in the voice of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy's narrators voice. and i highly recommend everyone else does the same.

[doomy19]

In response to post #39498570. #39512850, #39513220, #39514275 are all replies on the same post.

bigdeano89 wrote: Sigh, the ignorant comments coming from some folks here is unbelieveable, to the point that I think you must either be children or trolls to have this mindset. Most of these people even admit to "not reading the whole article" but somehow their insight has to be more valuable than the damn article you are commenting on.

Heres the gist, shrunk down into a smaller size so you can understand. Mod authors DO own their mods, Bethesda and Zenimax own the LICENSE to it (and thats ONLY if made with the creation kit. If they make them by any other means, Zenimax dont own anything). That license does NOT extend to users. That does NOT give anyone the right to take and upload the mods without permission from the authors, END.OF.STORY.

No more of this BS "I own the game, I can do what I want", no, you cant, and you are childish or a troll if you believe thats true.

Brabbit1987 wrote: I am of the argument that, while I don't agree with mods being stolen, I think it's better to make it less of a big deal, because it's only making the situation worse.

Remember what the music industry did back when piracy was rather new? There are always going to be people who do not respect your wishes. Also, in many cases, it's not even someone who is trying to be disrespectful, it's just someone who enjoys your content and wants to share it with others.

Now, you can do what the music industry did and try your best to prevent piracy. Or you can accept that there is very little you can do to stop it entirely and it's probably best to just embrace it and work along with it, rather than against it. If this trend continues with mods on consoles, you can be sure .. eventually we will come to a point where trying to stop your mod from being uploaded will just be impossible unless you don't mind spending most of your time doing take downs.

Again, it's not that I agree with people stealing mods, I just think it's going to come to a point where .. it will be too much work to try and prevent it.

boomerizer wrote: And in my case, I feel the same way Brabbit. Although, it's more because its digital media. Once you upload it to the internet, you sort of lose ownership. You know, its not like you're actually losing anything. And the 'thief' really isn't gaining anything. In fact the only people that benefit from this, are the people that download the mods to their game.

My god, what a travesty! Oh, what a world where people are actually enjoying something on a platform that isn't a PC! *gasp*

Like I've said, repeatedly, if the thief is actually trying to claim ownership (or worse, trying to encourage donation or payment of some sort), yeah, I'd have a problem too. But if its a direct copy/paste upload? C'mon, what the flip are you really losing out on?

BuffHamster wrote: @boomerizer: Apathy, ... awesome. I have some Insurance policies I can sell to you, oh and this bridge I found somewhere near Brooklyn NY.
Accept it, "Buyer Beware" and all that.
You bought a shoddy used car with no warranty? Too bad, accept it.
Oh my, you purchased some food items that have been recalled due to Salmonella contamination? Ah well, you still have that Insurance policy I sold you? Never mind, food poisoning is not covered.
Imitation brand electronics burned your house down? Ah, too bad, that's not covered. Accept it, no, ... embrace it.

My take? Mod Authors have the legal right to be advocates for themselves and the legal right to petition their grievances as loudly as possible, ... accept it.

@Brabbit1987 You're right, it will be too much work to try and prevent it, so the mod authors will do the most simple thing they can, which is to stop making mods because the enjoyment of doing so has been eclipsed by the problems involved. And who benefits from that? Nobody. This is the reality that the community members here understand and the new console people and Bethesda don't, that there is no way to win if everyone isn't respecting the ones creating the content. Edited June 18, 2016 by doomy19

[PinkSamantha]

In response to post #39467495. #39507160, #39508060, #39508150, #39509035, #39511705, #39513590, #39513965, #39514025, #39514065 are all replies on the same post.

GamerPoets wrote: This is something that I shared in a different forum/site and while that topic was slightly different it was still brought about because of the topic here. I thought I'd paste what I wrote here for those of you who care to read it.
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This is a generalized statement. I have no problem talking directly to individuals if I feel that I need to lol, so don't think that I'm beating around the bush. I just felt the need to share my thoughts on the subject at large. If I didn't respect everyone's comments thus far I wouldn't take the time to type this. There are some people that I have a lot of respect for who are posting in this topic, who have done a lot to help me on my modding journey and I wanted to share my thoughts with them.

What I feel this all comes down to is this...

Creative property in any form (music, television, paintings, mods) is one or more people devoting a large amount of their life (whether it's hours, weeks, months or years) to something that they believe in one way or another.

Regarding mods and nexus and other sites, there should definitely be some sort of check box or something that says "yes, allow others to use my mod as they wish" "no, you cannot upload it elsewhere" " after this amount of time you can... blah blah blah" or whatever.. you know? I also feel that once someone uploads a mod that shouldn't be able to just pull it away from those who use it by removing it (I'll say why at the end of this book I'm writing lol) But none of that exists yet as far as I know so it's a moot point.

So..

To guess at what someone else is feeling about this subject, if they have not said anything either way about it, (before disappearing or not) or to think that they "should" feel how you do on the subject (whether they actually do agree or not) is selfish, un-thoughtful and borderline narcissistic among other things. Words have definitions and regarding this situation to take someone else's work (and don't be fooled, because whether it is "fun" or not it is "work") is to be those words and that type of person. (The type of person that most people in this community want nothing to do with and to not be a part of. Which is the only reason why people like me even consider to continue being a part of it and to put so much effort into what we do. There is enough BS in "real life" that I don't need it to ooze into my passions or hobbies and many feel that way, too. The reason that many stick around the community, and continue to create mods and to support it, damn sure isn't the replay-ability of Skyrim for 5 years+lol).

Summary of all that: If you don't know how someone feels it's not your place to assume (that's with anything in life)...continuing on =)

If someone says that credit is enough then cool, credit them and do as you wish. But if someone states that they want their mods only on nexus then they should be respected. You don't know what creating that mod did for this person. It could have been their way to get through a tough time in life. It could have been something that they poured every piece of themselves into creatively to prove to themselves that they could do it. It could be a simple form of therapy or just a hobby. Perhaps the mod author has something against the other sites. Perhaps the mod author has a strong personal connection to nexus and they want to give back to it for whatever nexus "gave" to them personally when they needed something to be given to them. It's not your "right" to guess or to even be allowed to know how they feel unless they care to share their reasons with you.

When someone pours as much effort into their creative works as many mod authors do, taking their mod and uploading it elsewhere is like me taking anything that you have worked hard on, that you hold dear to yourself, and tossing it around in the mud like it's no big deal. ...Yes, that's exactly what it's like to some people and it's not your decision to say that they shouldn't feel how they do about it. As a human being you should respect their efforts and the fact that they made it public for anyone to use at all. More importantly, you should respect their feelings and your potential lack of understanding about them.

On the other hand, when someone makes a song and sells it (just an example) and puts it on the radio there are large amounts of people who will fall in love with it. Once you have created something and given it to the world it is no longer 100% the creators. It's just not. There's no two ways about it. When you allow someone else to develop an attachment to something (minor or large, emotional or whatever) that you have created you have entitled that person to be able to listen to it, watch it, or use it, whatever it is as often as they care too or need to. If the initial requirements were for that person to pay for it upfront so be it. If the wishes of this person were for you to only play with these works on a specific version of a game, then that is what they are. You don't need a law to tell you how not to be an A-hole. If you have the desire to bring that mod to a "new level" then "you" "need" to do the work and put that same care and effort into as the original creator did to both respect and honor it and not just "bootleg their CD" and give it out elsewhere... because when you do that you go from being a supporter who deserves you're own piece of what you fell in love with, regarding their work, to a hustler (which I know a great deal about in "real life" lol). A hustler who may not have only ruined this experience/passtime/hobby/passion/whatever that a mod author (person) once needed but you have potentially robbed them of their passion by tainting it with selfish actions. Who know's what creating these mods really allowed this person to get through in life. And if they are being a dick to others... have you heard how horrible people in comments can be and how annoying? I didn't create a video called "The (bad placed here word lol) Song" for nothing. Perhaps this experience has already been ruined for them and they only keep their mods up on nexus out of respect for some or with hopes of regaining the feeling that they once had for this community.

As I stated at the beginning of this long wall of text... "it comes down to this"... to be a decent human-being and to understand what it means to be one.

If anyone doesn't understand that (and the majority of what I have wrote) they have a lot to learn about this very short life that we are living. Not everyone who creates a mod views them as "trading cards".

Sure, modding is about having fun and sharing that fun with other people... TO YOU, that is what modding is =) ... and mostly to me = )... but that doesn't mean that our, my, or our thoughts and feelings allow us to take something that we didn't create and to do what we wish with it. Mods may be pass-times and ways to not be bored for some but for others they are life saving acts of creativity or monuments of personal growth.

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after typing this all out there was a comment that had been written in between and I liked what was said as it helped to define the point even further

Anonymous Poster: "All I’m saying is...I do not think Leonardo da Vinci has a right to say that no alterations of the Mona Lisa can be made. I think it is ethically acceptable for these to exist, even if the author does not want them to."

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Me: I like the Mono Lisa statement. You're right and people DO modify the Mono Lisa all of the time. However, they aren't allowed to simply paint over the original copy. They have to either recreate it from scratch and make adjustments as they go or use a photocopy of some sorts, but still, it's not the original version... not to mention that Leo has been long dead and his emotional attachments to his work are probably justifiably assumed to no longer be what they once were... however, we still do everything that we can to protect and honor the original... what a sexy lady she is lol

Goodnight.

jace14 wrote: if bumps are allowed in this forum, here is a bump

CaladanAnduril wrote: Str8 to the point ! Bravo !

boomerizer wrote: I second this bump.

And to further, it's not that I don't appreciate the modders that create the work.
I just don't hold any real care about the origin. Only that the mod that I see is available for use. I don't know many modders by name. Even for the mods that I absolutely love-- Skyrim ones, specifically. I know Azar but that is only because each mod ends with "by Azar". Beyond that. I don't know who made Falskaar. I don't know who made Forgotten City. I don't know who made Better Shaped Weapons. But I absolutely love these mods for Skyrim.

For Fallout 4, I use NCR Veteran Ranger Armor, Patriotic Shield and Commonwealth Cuts. I don't know the names of the modders. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate that they are available to me. Two of those three mods aren't available on Xbox though. And that makes me a sad panda.

That said, NCR Veteran Ranger armor WAS at one point available in a mod pack (Spawn Items) that allowed a user to spawn items from the game, as well as included others' mods, including NCR VRA. The author of Spawn Items did not credit the mod author of NCRVRA and to me, I can't really see why they are upset because once uploaded to the internet, you should want your work distributed. ( I mean does it really matter WHO downloads it? Just that someone is enjoying it?)

I mean, I don't know the name of the cook that makes my gourmet burgers at BT's or Five Guys or wherever I order my burgers from. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate the burger delivered to me by the waiter/waitress. We thank the waiter/waitress when the food is brought to us, but the person that actually MADE the burger goes thankless.

Think that makes any more sense? I mean, seems relevant to me..

arenthefox wrote: My eyes hurt from staring at this post, but I agree with everything. Of course, you said it a lot better and nicer than I'd ever be able to.

Kalell wrote: When someone creates a mod I like I always check to see what the username of the person is when I go back to endorse the file. I've made a few mods myself and I know how much time and effort goes into making them. Checking to see what the authors name is is the least I can do in return for them sharing their work, and it will help me recognize anything else they do in the future. I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't want to know the name of someone that worked really hard on something they liked and uploaded it for people to use for free.

boomerizer wrote: For the same reason I don't bother with the credits at the end of a TV Show, Movie, or Game.

PinkSamantha wrote: Edit: wrong post. Please remove?

PinkSamantha wrote: edit: damn, double post. If Robin, Dante, SirSalami or any staff is around, would you mind to remove this post? Thank you very much and sorry for the trouble.

Kalell wrote: So you just don't care to know who the people are that make the entertainment you enjoy, so long as they are allowing you to use it? In the case of media that you pay for I understand that, but recognition is the only thing mod authors get.

@Kalell
Just ignore him.
And thanks for the opinion. Completely agreed with you.