On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[CliveBarker]

 

In response to post #39514525. #39514985, #39515670, #39515755, #39515875, #39516010, #39516150, #39516205, #39516265, #39516385, #39516625, #39516800, #39516940, #39516945 are all replies on the same post.

 

 

 

SixT4 wrote: Welp, I guess I better throw any hopes of making my own mods from scratch out the window and onto the concrete. All I need as incentive to create is knowing I'd be doing something good for people- I don't need some bundle of "rights" and a draconian legal regime enforcing them. It's a shame to see a modding community support the same system that empowers game companies to step all over mod authors, and makes innocent things like fan art a criminal offense with fines over $100,000.

 

Loving what I did is how I started to draw, and how I started my journey to become a computer programmer- and seeing how so many people doing those two things are so obsessed with copyright rather than doing good, I'm starting to be driven away.

boomerizer wrote: Finally, someone here with a line of genuine human logic.

SixT4 wrote: I was just gonna thank you for your other post, boomerizer. :U People are bringing money into this, when many mod authors aren't asking money to download their mods. If I wasn't a broke college student, I'd definitely pitch in some money to say thanks and show I care. Also, I'd agree with what you said about redistribution; I've had a few of my drawings redistributed a while ago, and it hasn't bothered me any- they gave me credit. ;P If someone was trying to claim it, sure- I'd be mad. When it comes to software-related things like game mods, I can see a few reasons why some mod authors wouldn't want their work tinkered with- people could add viruses, screw it up and make the original author look bad, etc. I can also understand some restrictions on redistribution for support issues; I've seen plenty of people elsewhere asking for support for a really outdated version of something; it looks stressful. XP But rather than forbidding distribution and modification, why not just allow them within a set of rules? I'm actually curious on why people don't just make rules instead of forbidding something outright...

doomy19 wrote: @sixT4 Imagine you had just created a beautifully crafted new outfit for fallout 4, and upload it expecting (justly im sure), that all of those downloading it are going to love it. Now imagine that the outfit, which is very unique and original and is tied to your name and reputation as a modder, gets pulled from the nexus by some smartass who then proceeds to open 3dsmax and adds a big nazi swastika to your original and unique outfit, or cuts off the bottom of the outfit and makes it a skirt, or makes a super skimpy version of your outfit and reuploads it to other sites under your name. Im sure you would be just fine with all of this happening right?

Brabbit1987 wrote: @doomy19

 

XD Nothing like that as far as I am aware is happening. So your point is ... pointless.

 

However, to answer such a question, I would be mad if that happened of course. It's an entirely different situation than this.

HadToRegister wrote: Just because you're not aware of it happening doesn't mean it's NOT happening.

boomerizer wrote: @doomy,

 

I would trust the users to be smart enough to look at the original mod before messaging me. And if they didn't, I would point it out, and leave it at that.

 

"I didn't put the swaztika there. Look at my mod <provide link> then look at the uploader of the mod you downloaded..... no match? Thanks, have a nice day."

Brabbit1987 wrote: @HadtoRegister

 

If I am unaware of it happening, then that means it's not a very big problem. If it has happened once, I don't consider that an issue. That would be that specific mod developers issue, and they would have to settle it with whom ever decided to be such a douche.

doomy19 wrote: @Brabbit1987

Whether it has or hasn't happened YET is meaningless in a toxic regulatory environment where it can and will happen if steps aren't taken to prevent it. Such steps were easy to take when there were only a few major modding sites with good regulatory oversight such as the nexus and steam workshop where multiple reports or a PM could get the desired effect. However this does not seem to be the case now with bethesda as per the original post.

SixT4 wrote: @doomy19 If it got pulled by some jerk and was made as an insult, then yeah, I'd be pretty mad- especially under my name, as that would be deceiving to both the community and to me. Hang'em high, for all I care- but that's only one scenario. If someone made a serious modification made to look like a Mecha-Nazi for Fallout 4, I'd be fine, as long as they stated it wasn't the original and the original was made by me; to each their own (I have 2 friends who are WWII buffs, they might think that'd be cool). Sure, not everyone thinks that way- and again, to each their own; I'm just trying to say I peacefully disagree with the "it's my property" train of thought. Other people can think differently all they want- I just don't want to be involved.

Brabbit1987 wrote: @doomy19

Whether it can happen is irrelevant. I can go outside and be stabbed by a person in a pikachu costume with a wooden fork.

 

You also can't decide something "will" happen if it hasn't really happened yet. I can say the sky will fall today, but that doesn't make it true. If it starts to become a problem and people start stealing mods and changing them in such a way, then we will deal with that problem once it arises, until then .. it's not a problem.

 

As for regulation, yep .. and it's likely only going to get harder as things continue down this path of console modding.

doomy19 wrote: @SixT4 Well there's really nothing to disagree with, it IS their property, according to U.S. intellectual property laws (DMCA) and also according to the Zenimax TOS agreement... by advocating that people take it just because they want to, you are basically advocating breaking the spirit of the law even if it can't be punished realistically.

Brabbit1987 wrote: @doomy19

 

Yes, it is technically against the law. But so is fan art .. what is your point? These are laws that are rarely followed because it does more harm than good. It's just overly stressful for the little that can be gained by going after such minor issues.

 

If we where to follow copyright laws to a T ... do you have any idea how many mods here already break those laws?

doomy19 wrote: @Brabbit1987 Guess i should leave the doors to my house unlocked and my windows open since i like a nice breeze and my house has never been burglarized...

@doomy19

 

Your house may never have been, but there is plenty of evidence of others houses having been. So it's a problem, and thus it stands to reason ... maybe you should lock your door.

 

It's not a matter of whether or not it happens to only you, it's a matter of whether or not it's happening overall.

 

If there was a ton of mods being taken and being changed into some nazi stuff and reuploaded under the mod authors name, then yes .. that is an issue. That isn't happening though.

 

Could you and boomerizer please stop derailing this thread trying to justify unauthorized mod uploading?

 

First of all I think content creators, aka modders should always be protected and prioritized more than any user. Even if this doesn't make sense from an economical perspective since the masses are conformed by users who doesn't create content.

 

The first thing I could think about as a form to protecting content creators, is a script to hide comments containing the words trolls and brigaders tend to use to attack modders. It should be very important to not letting the attacker know that his/her comment has been hidden in order for them to try to bypass the script. Even if this measure could hide some valid comments, again, modders should be prioritized.

[MarchinBunny]

In response to post #39493020. #39493465, #39494175, #39494320, #39494820, #39495215, #39495510, #39495745, #39495875, #39496060, #39496080, #39496750, #39496960, #39497070, #39497535, #39497750, #39498490, #39498745, #39498845, #39501930, #39503535, #39506700, #39516610, #39516730, #39517310, #39517400, #39517485 are all replies on the same post.

arkancelo wrote: I stopped reading after some time.

This elementary prose is full of s#*&#33;.

Dramaqueens (modders who cry when other people are able to enjoy their mods) need to grow up.

My God, what's this ego?

"I created you, you shall know my name, follow my cult and worship me!" - Abrahamic God/Average Modder

Seriously, just be happy that people can actually enjoy the content you made. Douchbags.

LightningYu wrote: So you say, its deserved that some poeple can simple steal things from other people, and you don't care because you can play the Mod on your Console. And you critize the modders for their ego. You are much more egoistic than any of these modders, which make the Content you can Enjoy in their free-time, where most people like Mod-User or the one who steals the mods are in 100years to lazy do their own work. How about you make an great mod, and than look how your own thing will be taken away, but why should you care, everyon cans play it. The way you act, shows now respect towards the modders,...

We will see, if modders keep modding when people still keep thefting or if modders find a way so their Mods works only on PC. Than we will see if console-players will still be happy, however (and no i'm not against Console-Gaming, because i myself also own an X1, PS4 and WiiU and half of my childhood i grew up with console) if you ask me, with that attitude by console-players you guys not even deserved mod-support.

Red890 wrote: While I also stopped reading after a while (It really was very long and repetitious),

I don't understand how you not only missed the point entirely, but have such a backwards and stupid view on how modding works. Modders don't like their work being stolen. I don't like my work being stolen (although I use Steam Workshop mostly). We spend dozens of hours or more (depending on mod size) working on projects we think are cool and are interesting for the community without pay.

The LEAST we deserve is credit for the work we've done and where the content WE produce can be distributed. Having some brainless shitlord include my map or skin in some stupid, bloated "l337 pack" doesn't make me happy. It makes me outright furious if they attempt to claim it as their own.

Now, I don't know if you're simply stupid, or if you are simply a petulant child that doesn't know much effort goes into making a good mod (maybe you're both), but saying "just be happy people can enjoy the content your made, even if they deliberately stole it and didn't credit you" has GOT to be the most retarded thing written this year.

By that insipid logic, movie credits shouldn't be a thing. Authors, musicians, and game developers should all remove their names from their work. After all, it doesn't matter who steals or copies it since those original creators should be HAPPY that people can enjoy their content, regardless of if they're credited or not.

I for one would be overjoyed to spend 100 hours working on a CSGO level for the explicit purpose of letting some 12 year old steal it, and claim original ownership. In fact, I should probably thank them, right?

daedriccat wrote: You can't just come in and demand what you want. It's that simple.

RaffTheSweetling wrote: Isn't it always the way. The people who've never endorsed a thing here, never added a mod of their own, or even a picture for others to enjoy, want to share their "valuable insights" on how authors should really feel when their work is stolen. It's incredible.

arn13 wrote: If you can't be bothered to read the entire thing, then at least copy and ctrl+F search for this section: "Why should mod authors care about others taking their work? Surely they release mods so that as many people as possible can enjoy them?"

It's not a question about someone having too much "ego." It's about having respect for other people's effort to actually create content for everyone to enjoy.

Shosholada wrote: + the point:

"9. Mod authors make mods for themselves first, and you second. If the second part, you, becomes too much of a problem for them, they’ll simply not want to share them with you at all."

End of story.

I wish to have option to block some users from my mods ;)

MysticalFlare wrote: Congrats on doing the complete opposite of what this article is trying to achieve.

jim_uk wrote: Files=0 Images=0 Videos=0 Friends=0 Endorsements Given=0 Files Tagged=0

Three years you've been here and you've contributed nothing at all.

Gilles19870 wrote: Ehhh no.. They made it for themselves first.. community second.. and if you just download the PC version, then alter it through the Creation Kit for console use.. then you're an thief. The original owner owns the rights to the mod.

The least you can do, if you reverse enigneer the mod, is credit the original maker.

If paid modding is to start on Bethesda's own site.. you have thiefs making a profit on somebody else's hard work.. that could open a whole sh*tload of complaints, and legal issues.

I understand Bethesda wanting their "own" mod site. Gives them great insight what the community wants in a new game.. but make sure the maker of the mod is the original maker. And not somebody that reversed engineered the mod from a pc version.

UlanX wrote: I don't think it's a god complex. I think it's more of a case of people are tired of the blatant sense of entitlement among some members of the gaming "community" (as reflected by your attitude). It's the same attitude you see on various forums where people are demanding, not asking, devs for this, that and the next thing. Claiming they know better than anyone else and basically being a selfish keyboard warrior. People who spend hours making content for others to enjoy at least deserve to be acknowledged and decide where, when and how their content is used.

Otherwise what I can see happening is people breaking off into smaller, closed modding guilds/groups and just producing content for a close knit community they know they can trust. I guess it's a case of "don't bite the hand that feeds you".

jagdhundnull wrote: @arkancelo

In all honesty, I think it's really difficult for you to make that argument when you seemingly haven't contributed anything to the community in 3 years.

And before you write me off as just another egotistical mod author, I'm not -- I too have no mods uploaded like yourself, and in 7 years at that. But I do enjoy and support the efforts of the mod authors, especially given the fact some of them have to deal with seeming toddlers clamoring for updates/fixes/new features as if the mod author doesn't have their own life to attend to. And don't get me started on the people who actively subscribe to the Fallout 4 betas and then complain to mod authors when the voluntary and ever-changing beta patches break the mod...

All that said, yeah, there are douchey mod authors here and there. Happens everywhere. But, while not having published any mods myself, I have made several personal ones, and can attest to the days, sometimes even weeks that can be spent on testing what you're trying to do to get it right. And that's just some simple stuff. Some of these mod authors have been working on their mods here and there since last November.

In the end, remember one thing about all this: the modding community is just that -- a community. It's voluntary. People donate time from their lives to provide this for the enjoyment of others. For them it's an achievement and also a bit fun. But if they become burnt out on the community, if it's no longer fun nor a positive thing for them, why should they even bother sharing mods?

When all the great mod authors on this website decide to pack up and move on with their lives, can we depend on you to give us the game-changing masterpieces?

Th3 Duk3 wrote: Now there's an idea: I'm not aloud to get mad for people stealing food out of my home, cause "other people should also be able to enjoy my food"

*facepalm*

khalkists wrote: Cool. So that means I should be able to come and take your computer right? Its yours, but, well... I should be able to enjoy it, irregardless of if you want to give it to me.

jguerr73 wrote: just wow

Red Titus wrote: If I may. I know how much work is involved in making mod. It's not just sketch things up and upload them. The programs that are involved, the effort in LEARNING how to use these tools. Nifscope, photoshop and others that even the author gives credit .It all takes time...I'll be honest with ya. I've tried to use some of these programs, and just could not get it. Yeah, you have some modders with ego trips. But you know what? It's deserved. Time, effort and a lot of patience. I've been a gamer since the Atari era. Blocks for graphics and paddles the size of tennis rackets. Well maybe a little exaggerated . I too owned many consoles and enjoyed them very much. And still own a ps4, and maybe the ps4.5 in the future. When I heard that they where going to suped up the ps4 or even Xbox1, first thing that came to my mind ,they're going to be able to run the more powerful mods. If feel even though mods are free, I still should contribute something. If not financially, how about endorsements. I'am baffled by how many downloads and so little endorsements. And the sad thing is many of the authors only as for endorsements. Hence "please endorse". One thing both the pc and console people have in common, we enjoy playing video games. WE'RE GAMERS. But when I download a mod, I don't take it for granted. And am very thankful to the modding community for the work they've done, free of charge. Even this site is free. Thank you modders for your free stuff. And I will continue to at the very least endorse your stuff. Again, thank you...

cridus wrote: @arkancelo

lol you REALLY should have kept reading, because this argument you raised is covered near the end. search this in the page: "Why should mod authors care about others taking their work? Surely they release mods so that as many people as possible can enjoy them?"

and feel stupid.


edit: wow I had this page open for a while. I've probably been ninja'd several times, lol

Tinypigs wrote: So, you're evaluating a text that you yourself specifically claimed to not have read. And you expect your opinion to be considered valid? No. It's not. Read the text, where he talks about exactly the type of thing you are raging at, and THEN comment on it.

And in regards to your depressingly over-cynical image of all mod authors, do you not see how insanely unreasonable it is for you to have reached this level of entitlement over something other people have put THEIR OWN TIME into and you get to enjoy FOR FREE?! Come on. Even if a mod author is a total shitface, you have absolutely no right to demand anything.

Your role is simple. In this particular case you are only a consumer. Your only power lies in either using a mod, or not using it. Yet you for some reason seem to think that you enjoying someones content gives you a say in what they should or shouldn't do with it. Almost like the author should be thanking you for your "gracious consumption".

NO! THATS NOT HOW AUTHORSHIP WORKS!

Tinypigs wrote: Yeah this OP managed most idiotic comment i've seen in this entire discussion.

lsinsocal wrote: YOU are why we can't have nice things.

treasurev wrote: Okay, so your line of thinking is simply "If people can enjoy it, that's all there is to it"?

It shouldn't matter if someone owns it and therefore has rights to choose what is done with it?

Okay, feel free to give me your address so I can come and steal your car that you've spent years putting together piece by piece. Hey, I can enjoy it so it doesn't matter if you own it or not right? Your attitude is precisely what is inciting this entire issue arkancelo..it reeks of pure entitlement.

boomerizer wrote: As I said in my wall of disorganized garbage:

Xbox One mod description is very limited. And the priority should be saying what the mod is, what it does, and how to use it. Especially in a mod pack. There really isn't enough space to list a credits section especially when multiple mods were used.

And, I really don't want to make you angrier, but I've never heard of you. In fact, I don't know many modders by name-- your notoriety as a modder is fleeting at best-- and if you care so much about your mod being stolen or used in a pack, maybe you should have made the effort to put your mods up to give yourself the credit first.

Art is stolen all the time. In fact, most of these mods available is 'stolen' content. NCR Veteran Ranger armor, Captain America's shield. It may very well have been content made from scratch, but in the end, NCR Ranger armor is based not-so-loosely off of Obsidians Fallout: New Vegas, and Captain America's shield is Marvel property. I don't see Obsidian or Marvel/Disney coming onto this site and threatening legal action.

Because they understand fair-use.

And, I understand the character limit on xbox one mods doesn't allow a very detailed description. So, its more or less a lack of care due to technical limitations-- as well as, well, I don't think users really care about mod authors by name. It's not like its a complex system to get your mods available to console. SO the lack your effort merely says you don't care about the console community and you'd rather see them go without mods entirely.

Not the kind of person I want to download mods from. Why? Because I'm willing to bet that I'm not the sole user here that plays games on console AND on desktop. Yeah, I have multiple gaming platforms-- because I'm a /gamer/.

Not a PC Master Race-r.
Not a Console Peasant.

A gamer.

And while I appreciate the mods the are made available, I don't rightly care who makes them available. Just that they are.

HadToRegister wrote: I find it interesting that the majority of people on here who have no problem with mod theft, also only have about 1 to 30 total posts.

While long-time nexus members are against mod-theft.
What does that say?

Brabbit1987 wrote: @HadtoRegister
A lot of people are probably lurkers. You can't really know how long they have been around simply by post count.

HadToRegister wrote: So in other words, lurkers who have contributed NOTHING to the community, but come out of the woodwork when it comes to defending stealing mods.

OK, I got it.

One has been here for 3 years, 0 endorsements given, another has been here 6 years, 0 endorsements given.

JN273 wrote: @Brabbit1987
That might be true as I used to be one before 2010, but that doesn't change the fact that in this specific case, this user hasn't contributed in a sinlge way to the community. It's obvious already what kind of person this is. It's a consumer with no sense of the modding community. I agree that there are lurkers in the community, but if you never endorse, post, reply or whatever, you're not a part of the community. Simple as that.

I love the modding community, I really do. But I will NEVER, like these members that post comments like this when in reality they have no clue of what they're talking about, especially when they don't contribute.

A mod is that mod's authors work. Regardless of size, the origninal author is indeed the author. That person put his or hers time and effort into that and YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM THEM. According to me, it doesn't matter what the consumers think, that's not relevant at all. Because it's not their work.

Sorry for my rant.

boomerizer wrote: I've been a member since 2010. Enjoying downloading mods for a long time. If you look at my profile, I've only endorsed 1 thing. But I've got a lot of items in my download history.

The extent of my mod use is simply that: usage. I appreciate it. And with console mods now a thing, I appreciate it even more. What I don't appreciate is the elitism that becomes more apparent-- which is why I've only just become more vocal.

Because I'm not just a console peasant. I play on anything that can play a game that I enjoy. Bethesda games aren't PC exclusives. Mods use to be. Now, we can experience mods on a whole new medium and there are mod authors out there who literally do not want console gamers to have mods because apparently we're "poor" peasants. We're beneath them because we have a $300 machine that is guaranteed to play the games we play.

Until that ambiguity subsides to the point where it isn't a problem, and modders are broken in, and comfortable with the new environment that they are making mods for...

I suspect mod 'theft' will continue to persist.

@HadtoRegister

Well, not everyone is like that though. For example, while I am against the notion of stealing and reuploading, I do think this is being made into a much bigger deal than it should be.

Yet I endorse mods, I post now and again, and I even use to be a mod developer a long time ago myself, though not here on the nexus.

[Kraynic]

In response to post #39515150. #39515405, #39515615 are all replies on the same post.

Vagrant0 wrote:

So please, tell me again. Whats the f***ing problem?

 

 

The problem, simply, is that ONLY the author of a mod is qualified to decide if it is safe to use on console or decide if they want to offer support for that mod on console. There are dozens of threads popping up on reddit warning console users against certain mods (which were uploaded to bethesda.net without consent) which are corrupting saves or causing other harm. Unfortunately, given the lackluster systems, they blame the original mod author for these problems and have been flaming the author for uploading a "broken" product, some of these flames even making its way back to this site. This makes the mod author look bad, causes harm to those users of the mod, and leads to significantly more problems for EVERYONE involved... All because someone decided that they wanted to upload a mod for console users.

 

This is the situation as it exists. There is evidence of this happening. Beyond all the usual arguments of copyright and providing credit, this one issue remains and serves to cause harm to both mod authors and mod users regardless of what platform those mods appear.

boomerizer wrote: Well, I mean, thats a risk of mods. I've had to reinstall Skyrim several times on PC because of the complicated ENB installation process. Or because dirty mods that I couldn't be bothered to clean up with TES5edit. I've spent days trying to get certain mods to work on PC.

This is merely growing pains for console mods. So far, I've had a smooth experience downloading mods, though I have no way to say if any mods I currently use are stolen.

Brabbit1987 wrote: It's a problem that exists, yes ... but it's a problem that is going to continue to exist. Everyone is just stressing themselves out more than they should be.

If people are coming here complaining about mods breaking their game, then they have much to learn. This is going to happen even if the mod author uploads it themselves.

And just how much to people who strictly play on consoles know about mods? You have the tools on pc to smooth out problems with mods. They don't exist (as far as I know) on consoles.

If the only mods to get released to consoles are texture/mesh replacements, then there probably won't be much in the way of problems. But mods can be MUCH more complex than that. If something goes wrong, where do the the console players turn for help? Well, to the mod author who may not be able to offer any support at all except to the pc platform.

As far as reinstalling Skyrim goes. I only did that once. I decided redownloading the game took far too long, and saved a base freshly downloaded version to a data partition where I could copy/paste it into my gaming partition if I managed to scramble my working copy of the game. Is this something that can be done on a console? I don't know, since I don't own a console. If you need to redownload the game every time something screws up, this is going to cause a lot of anger in a hurry.

Saying the authors need to just let things go where they may really isn't a very constructive argument to make. While I don't mod, I have some skills at making things with my very own hands. I believe a lot of people don't really have that anymore, and, as a result, don't really have an understanding of the connection a maker of something has to the product of their time and energy. And I'm not sure how it is possible to bridge that gap. I believe that is partly what is at play here with some sides of this discussion.

[CliveBarker]

Well, since they just keep repeating their pity arguments by just changing some words I think they should be muted since no matter how well constructed your answer to them is presented, they just won't acknowledge the very FACT that unauthorized mod uploading is not justifiable by any means. It doesn't matter if you are a console user who is married and do not have time to check the author's name. Modders should be prioritized and protected, they won that right by CONTRIBUTING and CREATING, rather than leeching and justifying the unjustifiable.

 

TLDR: At this point they are not contributing to this discussion and measures should be taken to ensure the comment section remains useful.

[AFKRoger]

I'm gonna just post this as my opinion, and then say a few things afterwards. Sorry If my wording is poor I'm not sure how to word some of this.

 

1. This is not just about the people who download the mods, this about an insult to a community that has been generating content and adding value to Bethesda's games for 14 years. This includes the people who downloaded those mods.

 

2. It is illegal Bethesda them selves have made it clear that their site is protected by DCMA. Which, if i recall correctly also makes it illegal for users to download stolen software. They are essentially committing the same crimes as pirating music.

 

3. Just because its free doesn't make it legal nor give anyone the right to do with it as you please. Just as when you buy a game you don't own it, you merely only own the right to use it.

 

4. Yes, their are those whom will go out yelling PC MASTER RACE and that console users should be made to down and bla bla bla....

 

A). I doubt the majority of the community is like that to.

B). The official response of this site in accordance of this article is that they have no place in this community.

 

5. Lets be honest, giving credit where credit is due isn't to much to ask for.

 

6. Obviously you can't fully stop pirating but a site such as bethesda.net allowing such a thing is not only an insult to this community's modders but also to every single one of their present and future customers as it shows how they really value them. (By doing little to nothing, your essentially saying its ok to do it.)

 

7. To those whom do pirate (and I don't just mean mods), To put this as respectfully as I can manage. You are the problem, you are the cancer on this community trying to slowly make it eat it self from the inside out.

 

Lastly, contrary to how my last point may come off as

 

I think we are all getting a bit to angry to have a proper conversation on this mabye if we all just took a sec to step back and clam down things may go a little better.

 

Its a sad to have to see community as great as this that has accomplished as much as it has be so distraught over something as this.

Edited June 18, 2016 by AFKRoger

[MarchinBunny]

In response to post #39515150. #39515405, #39515615, #39517850 are all replies on the same post.

Vagrant0 wrote:

So please, tell me again. Whats the f***ing problem?

 

 

The problem, simply, is that ONLY the author of a mod is qualified to decide if it is safe to use on console or decide if they want to offer support for that mod on console. There are dozens of threads popping up on reddit warning console users against certain mods (which were uploaded to bethesda.net without consent) which are corrupting saves or causing other harm. Unfortunately, given the lackluster systems, they blame the original mod author for these problems and have been flaming the author for uploading a "broken" product, some of these flames even making its way back to this site. This makes the mod author look bad, causes harm to those users of the mod, and leads to significantly more problems for EVERYONE involved... All because someone decided that they wanted to upload a mod for console users.

 

This is the situation as it exists. There is evidence of this happening. Beyond all the usual arguments of copyright and providing credit, this one issue remains and serves to cause harm to both mod authors and mod users regardless of what platform those mods appear.

boomerizer wrote: Well, I mean, thats a risk of mods. I've had to reinstall Skyrim several times on PC because of the complicated ENB installation process. Or because dirty mods that I couldn't be bothered to clean up with TES5edit. I've spent days trying to get certain mods to work on PC.

This is merely growing pains for console mods. So far, I've had a smooth experience downloading mods, though I have no way to say if any mods I currently use are stolen.

Brabbit1987 wrote: It's a problem that exists, yes ... but it's a problem that is going to continue to exist. Everyone is just stressing themselves out more than they should be.

If people are coming here complaining about mods breaking their game, then they have much to learn. This is going to happen even if the mod author uploads it themselves.

Kraynic wrote: And just how much to people who strictly play on consoles know about mods? You have the tools on pc to smooth out problems with mods. They don't exist (as far as I know) on consoles.

If the only mods to get released to consoles are texture/mesh replacements, then there probably won't be much in the way of problems. But mods can be MUCH more complex than that. If something goes wrong, where do the the console players turn for help? Well, to the mod author who may not be able to offer any support at all except to the pc platform.

As far as reinstalling Skyrim goes. I only did that once. I decided redownloading the game took far too long, and saved a base freshly downloaded version to a data partition where I could copy/paste it into my gaming partition if I managed to scramble my working copy of the game. Is this something that can be done on a console? I don't know, since I don't own a console. If you need to redownload the game every time something screws up, this is going to cause a lot of anger in a hurry.

Saying the authors need to just let things go where they may really isn't a very constructive argument to make. While I don't mod, I have some skills at making things with my very own hands. I believe a lot of people don't really have that anymore, and, as a result, don't really have an understanding of the connection a maker of something has to the product of their time and energy. And I'm not sure how it is possible to bridge that gap. I believe that is partly what is at play here with some sides of this discussion.

@Kraynic

Well, that is the issue, I don't think the mod authors are going to have much of a choice at the end of the day unless they upload their mod themselves. Don't want problems? Then just need to act quickly.

This was bound to happen with console modding. You are introducing a community and service that the mod developers really have no control over.

[FalloutVeteran2009]

You are all acting like children fighting over sugar, just eat it yo.

[MarchinBunny]

In response to post #39518120.

AFKRoger wrote: I'm gonna just post this as my opinion, and then say a few things afterwards. Sorry If my wording is poor I'm not sure how to word some of this.

1. This is not just about the people who download the mods, this about an insult to a community that has been generating content and adding value to Bethesda's games for 14 years. This includes the people who downloaded those mods.

2. It is illegal Bethesda them selves have made it clear that their site is protected by DCMA. Which, if i recall correctly also makes it illegal for users to download stolen software. They are essentially committing the same crimes as pirating music.

3. Just because its free doesn't make it legal nor give anyone the right to do with it as you please. Just as when you buy a game you don't own it, you merely only own the right to use it.

4. Yes, their are those whom will go out yelling PC MASTER RACE and that console users should be made to down and bla bla bla....

A). I doubt the majority of the community is like that to.
B). The official response of this site in accordance of this article is that they have no place in this community.

5. Lets be honest, giving credit where credit is due isn't to much to ask for.

6. Obviously you can't fully stop pirating but a site such as bethesda.net allowing such a thing is not only an insult to this community's modders but also to every single one of their present and future customers as it shows how they really value them. (By doing little to nothing, your essentially saying its ok to do it.)

7. To those whom do pirate (and I don't just mean mods), To put this as respectfully as I can manage. You are the problem, you are the cancer on this community trying to slowly make it eat it self from the inside out.

Lastly, contrary to how my last point may come off as

I think we are all getting a bit to angry to have a proper conversation on this mabye if we all just took a sec to step back and clam down things may go a little better.

Its a sad to have to see community as great as this that has accomplished as much as it has be so distraught over something as this.

2. Impossible, you wouldn't know if it was stolen or not, unless you knew who made it to begin with or if the person admitted stealing it right in the title of the mod. That would be like holding someone responsible for downloading a stolen app on the appstore when they obviously wouldn't know.

3. I agree, but whether or not it can be stopped is a whole other discussion.

6. I agree, Bethesda really should be handling this better. Then we wouldn't have much of an issue at all. But the cards have fallen where they have.

7. Errr .. well not always. There have been some studies that have shown those who pirate music are actually also some of the best customers of music. Pirating is wrong, but it's not like all pirates are harming the industry or the developers. Pirates who want everything for free ... and never pays for anything, even when they are capable of doing so ... that is when I have the problem with them.

[Kalell]

In response to post #39515150. #39515405, #39515615, #39517850, #39518140 are all replies on the same post.

Vagrant0 wrote:

So please, tell me again. Whats the f***ing problem?

 

 

The problem, simply, is that ONLY the author of a mod is qualified to decide if it is safe to use on console or decide if they want to offer support for that mod on console. There are dozens of threads popping up on reddit warning console users against certain mods (which were uploaded to bethesda.net without consent) which are corrupting saves or causing other harm. Unfortunately, given the lackluster systems, they blame the original mod author for these problems and have been flaming the author for uploading a "broken" product, some of these flames even making its way back to this site. This makes the mod author look bad, causes harm to those users of the mod, and leads to significantly more problems for EVERYONE involved... All because someone decided that they wanted to upload a mod for console users.

 

This is the situation as it exists. There is evidence of this happening. Beyond all the usual arguments of copyright and providing credit, this one issue remains and serves to cause harm to both mod authors and mod users regardless of what platform those mods appear.

boomerizer wrote: Well, I mean, thats a risk of mods. I've had to reinstall Skyrim several times on PC because of the complicated ENB installation process. Or because dirty mods that I couldn't be bothered to clean up with TES5edit. I've spent days trying to get certain mods to work on PC.

This is merely growing pains for console mods. So far, I've had a smooth experience downloading mods, though I have no way to say if any mods I currently use are stolen.

Brabbit1987 wrote: It's a problem that exists, yes ... but it's a problem that is going to continue to exist. Everyone is just stressing themselves out more than they should be.

If people are coming here complaining about mods breaking their game, then they have much to learn. This is going to happen even if the mod author uploads it themselves.

Kraynic wrote: And just how much to people who strictly play on consoles know about mods? You have the tools on pc to smooth out problems with mods. They don't exist (as far as I know) on consoles.

If the only mods to get released to consoles are texture/mesh replacements, then there probably won't be much in the way of problems. But mods can be MUCH more complex than that. If something goes wrong, where do the the console players turn for help? Well, to the mod author who may not be able to offer any support at all except to the pc platform.

As far as reinstalling Skyrim goes. I only did that once. I decided redownloading the game took far too long, and saved a base freshly downloaded version to a data partition where I could copy/paste it into my gaming partition if I managed to scramble my working copy of the game. Is this something that can be done on a console? I don't know, since I don't own a console. If you need to redownload the game every time something screws up, this is going to cause a lot of anger in a hurry.

Saying the authors need to just let things go where they may really isn't a very constructive argument to make. While I don't mod, I have some skills at making things with my very own hands. I believe a lot of people don't really have that anymore, and, as a result, don't really have an understanding of the connection a maker of something has to the product of their time and energy. And I'm not sure how it is possible to bridge that gap. I believe that is partly what is at play here with some sides of this discussion.

Brabbit1987 wrote: @Kraynic

Well, that is the issue, I don't think the mod authors are going to have much of a choice at the end of the day unless they upload their mod themselves. Don't want problems? Then just need to act quickly.

This was bound to happen with console modding. You are introducing a community and service that the mod developers really have no control over.

@Kraynic That does seem to be what is happening. Anyone that has spent a good amount of time making something (art) should understand how a creator feels about the things they create. There's a sense that the piece of art contains a part of them. If someone is allowed to just take that work and do whatever they want with it without even asking it feels like a part of you has been taken.

[JN273]

After reading so many comments and ideas it's sad to see that the community is so divided. Let's be honest though. A mod authors work is an authors work. An author have some sort of right to that creation, no matter if it's physical or digital, that's not relevant even. All people defending this idea of this being ok are most likely just consumers. I've checked most profiles and they are, many new as well.

 

I hate how this community (especially since Skyrim) has started to go away from kind people. These days there are so many greedy users with no contribution and that they speak for my work is something I dislike. They don't represent me nor my work. It's that simple. What I create is my work. Don't take my work and do what you please with it. Don't justify it with "B-but I gave credit man!"

 

I honestly think it's disgusting. Most big modders of this site agree that their creations should be in their control, not someone elses. It's their work. Please for the love of god, is it so difficult to respect that? Greed is what it is.