On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[midtek]

In response to post #39588720.

fuzziewuzzie wrote: How about, as a way to counter piracy, to add a useless script requiring F4SE to any mod that you don't want on consoles. It wouldn't work, right? I don't know too much about modding but making it not work or crash on console seems like a good way to curtail the theft of a mod. It's like those magnetic strips that deactivate stolen goods at the store. (I think).

That doesn't sound like a good idea. Anyone can remove empty scripts and reupload it if the script has no function. Plus, scripting is a serious business. You don't know how much time they spend for optimizing and to make better of the creation. Useless script is an insult to makers and also to users. If brought it that way, building useful script for protection would be likely preferable; still missing the point of this incident tho.

[phantompally76]

In response to post #39589525. #39589815 is also a reply to the same post.

kevindad1 wrote: Pretty much everything has the "release now, fix later" treatment. That's not to say that what you're saying is wrong though.

kevindad1 wrote: And why are people talking about paid mods? Bethesda knows that that failed. Do you really think that they'll attempt that again? How would they make it work anyway.

The same way EA gets away with charging full price for half a Star Wars: Battlefront and then ransoming the other half as DLC behind a paywall.

Because average gamer$ will purchase them without questioning the legality, morality or stupidity of the software companies.

Paid mods already exist. Some of you just don't realize it yet. Edited June 20, 2016 by phantompally76

[boomerizer]

 

..Ignorance can't be an excuse, no one is innocent...

 

 

So, what? You're just OK with breaking savegames, games, and consoles?

 

The average console user, I wager just opens up Fallout 4> Clicks Mods> Browses Mods> Clicks Download> Wash Rinse Repeat until satisfied or download queue is full or whatever> Returns to menu> Stars game.

There is NO WAY OF TELLING THE MOD IS STOLEN. What about that do you not flippin understand?

 

Is your ego that fragile that you're perfectly fine with "console peasants" being out, possibly $300 because of your free mod being redistributed? Please go away, don't start this again. I don't want to talk about the pure shittiness of that attitude. If you're that fragile, just stop modding. Just stop-- you obviously don't care about the community. Back to the way I put it:

 

You're burning a village, to catch a thief. IT. IS. MADNESS. Good Job, Targaeryen. Answer all your problems with fire.

 

 

EDIT: Furthermore, by including scripts that may break a game or console, you are supplying weapons to the terrorists now, you realize that? You're doing the work for them. By doing so, you have yourself become the very thing that will destroy the modding community. Good Job, on that one.

Edited June 20, 2016 by boomerizer

[Derrick93]

In response to post #39567530. #39569960, #39571210, #39573305, #39575275, #39579020, #39582715 are all replies on the same post.

Sackroad wrote: I'd like to start off by saying that I play Fallout 4 on the PS4. I'm a console user. But I've also played Skyrim and FONV on PC and have used mods. And all I'd really like to say is I have the upmost respect for the modmakers out there. They throw their creative talents into their work and produce excellent DLC-quality content. I've seen so many high quality mods and I've enjoyed them. For modmakers to create these and put them out there, for free even, for other people to enjoy.. It truly is a wonderful thing.

That's why this situation with bethesda.net has me worried and disappointed. My PC isn't the best for gaming, which is why I got the PS4 to begin with. When I heard that Fallout 4 would eventually get mods on consoles, I got excited. I had thought I would just have to go with whatever extra content Bethesda produced, which isn't bad but after having used mods in other games, is a step down. But then with the mod thefts, and people getting angry at consoles, it seemed like mods on console would dry up before I got the chance to use them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to cry about that. I understand wholeheartedly why mod creators are upset. This is their hard work being stolen, and often they're being openly taunted on top of that. It's horrible, and it makes me mad. All I ask is that you keep in mind that not all of us console users are like this. Some of us know the hard work that all of you put into your mods. Some of us greatly respect it, and all we want is the chance to enjoy your hard work LEGITIMATELY. Some of us refuse to download a stolen mod. I for one refuse. I won't put my enjoyment ahead of someone else's efforts.

So.. try to remember. There are those of us on console who support you mod makers out there. Your efforts aren't in vain. Please give us the chance to show that we will only support LEGIT mods. You may be pleasantly surprised. Thank you for your time.

ravernware wrote: well said.. imo
Nuff said? I think we all get the point. Dark0ne has poked the nest, as he should have. The bees are buzzing. Buzz little bees buzz. Busy busy little bees.

phantompally76 wrote: Yep, and those bees are going to end up stinging this community to death.

ravernware wrote: how so? please enlighten us.

Tahnval wrote: The easiest and most profitable way for Bethesda to respond is to ban mods from all sources other than Bethesda. Big businesses tend to like a monopoly and they tend to be more geared towards simple solutions using their lawyers than complex solutions. If Bethesda decides there's a problem with modding, bringing all modding under their control will be the obvious solution to them. It's conceptually simple, they're already geared up for it and it increases their power. It also positions them to make more profit more easily from paid mods. There would still be dodgy pirate sites and torrents, but there wouldn't be any reliable, safe, easy to use source for mods. Some customers would complain...but they'd comply. Now would be the best time to do it, since the necessary infrastructure is all in place and a large proportion of their customers aren't used to mods and therefore aren't used to anything better. For console gamers, any mods at all is a new thing and a good thing. So now's the best time to make sure they're don't expect anything as good as Nexus and PC modding in general.

So that's how the bees could sting this community to death...and probably will.

Namea wrote: Bethesda would never do that. They know they'd never sell games again. Their business model for years has been "Release broken game with great promise and let the modders fix it and live up to that promise."

MJR wrote: @Namea: That's just not true. Bethesda's games have sold a ton on consoles even before any of them had mod support (on consoles). Even if Bethesda killed modding completely, in all forms, their games would keep selling, and it would happen even on PC. PC numbers would suffer, but personally I doubt it would be by a large amount.

most of the income come from the pc version, they can't live without milking from it. And about bethesda.net everything is wrong, trying to sell more copy on console(a normal porting sold at 60 dollars after 5 years) with a marketing campaign based on the free work of other people made for themself pisses me off, this is the worst thing i ever see on videogame media, horse pack is nothing compared to bethesda.net. Edited June 20, 2016 by Derrick93

[Derrick93]

In response to post #39590680. #39591610, #39591915 are all replies on the same post.

boomerizer wrote:

 

..Ignorance can't be an excuse, no one is innocent...

 

 

So, what? You're just OK with breaking savegames, games, and consoles?

 

The average console user, I wager just opens up Fallout 4> Clicks Mods> Browses Mods> Clicks Download> Wash Rinse Repeat until satisfied or download queue is full or whatever> Returns to menu> Stars game.

There is NO WAY OF TELLING THE MOD IS STOLEN. What about that do you not flippin understand?

 

Is your ego that fragile that you're perfectly fine with "console peasants" being out, possibly $300 because of your free mod being redistributed? Please go away, don't start this again. I don't want to talk about the pure shittiness of that attitude. If you're that fragile, just stop modding. Just stop-- you obviously don't care about the community. Back to the way I put it:

 

You're burning a village, to catch a thief. IT. IS. MADNESS. Good Job, Targaeryen. Answer all your problems with fire.

 

 

EDIT: Furthermore, by including scripts that may break a game or console, you are supplying weapons to the terrorists now, you realize that? You're doing the work for them. By doing so, you have yourself become the very thing that will destroy the modding community. Good Job, on that one.

jwa1975 wrote:

In response to post #39590680.

boomerizer wrote:

..Ignorance can't be an excuse, no one is innocent...

So, what? You're just OK with breaking savegames, games, and consoles?

The average console user, I wager just opens up Fallout 4> Clicks Mods> Browses Mods> Clicks Download> Wash Rinse Repeat until satisfied or download queue is full or whatever> Returns to menu> Stars game.

There is NO WAY OF TELLING THE MOD IS STOLEN. What about that do you not flippin understand?

Is your ego that fragile that you're perfectly fine with "console peasants" being out, possibly $300 because of your free mod being redistributed? Please go away, don't start this again. I don't want to talk about the pure shittiness of that attitude. If you're that fragile, just stop modding. Just stop-- you obviously don't care about the community. Back to the way I put it:

You're burning a village, to catch a thief. IT. IS. MADNESS. Good Job, Targaeryen. Answer all your problems with fire.

EDIT: Furthermore, by including scripts that may break a game or console, you are supplying weapons to the terrorists now, you realize that? You're doing the work for them. By doing so, you have yourself become the very thing that will destroy the modding community. Good Job, on that one.

I was in Iraq for 3 years and never saw someone carrying around a Xbox to try and kill me with. I saw plenty of RPG rockets, bullets flying past me, IED explosions which crippled me, and many other things. To say that including F4SE scripts is supplying terrorists with a type of weapon is just ignorant. Why don't you go screw yourself before insulting any more vets that actually play these moddable games. F4SE is harmless you stupid ignorant s#*!, especially when used as DRM. It is a preventive measure and when used correctly a good one. Games are full of scripts, its how they function you corroded twat. God bless America, because we the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines will fight the wars.

Namea wrote: As a fellow veteran I find your use of the term "Rag Head" disgusting and quite indicative of the type of person you must be.

you should ask this to bethesda since all this mess is caused from them. Bethesda is responsable of bethesda.net, same for the safety and stability of the console version. And just to say, this is one of the most stupid comment i ever read on nexus.

[xaosbob]

In response to post #39590680. #39591610, #39591915, #39592885 are all replies on the same post.

boomerizer wrote:

 

..Ignorance can't be an excuse, no one is innocent...

 

 

So, what? You're just OK with breaking savegames, games, and consoles?

 

The average console user, I wager just opens up Fallout 4> Clicks Mods> Browses Mods> Clicks Download> Wash Rinse Repeat until satisfied or download queue is full or whatever> Returns to menu> Stars game.

There is NO WAY OF TELLING THE MOD IS STOLEN. What about that do you not flippin understand?

 

Is your ego that fragile that you're perfectly fine with "console peasants" being out, possibly $300 because of your free mod being redistributed? Please go away, don't start this again. I don't want to talk about the pure shittiness of that attitude. If you're that fragile, just stop modding. Just stop-- you obviously don't care about the community. Back to the way I put it:

 

You're burning a village, to catch a thief. IT. IS. MADNESS. Good Job, Targaeryen. Answer all your problems with fire.

 

 

EDIT: Furthermore, by including scripts that may break a game or console, you are supplying weapons to the terrorists now, you realize that? You're doing the work for them. By doing so, you have yourself become the very thing that will destroy the modding community. Good Job, on that one.

jwa1975 wrote:

In response to post #39590680.

boomerizer wrote:

..Ignorance can't be an excuse, no one is innocent...

So, what? You're just OK with breaking savegames, games, and consoles?

The average console user, I wager just opens up Fallout 4> Clicks Mods> Browses Mods> Clicks Download> Wash Rinse Repeat until satisfied or download queue is full or whatever> Returns to menu> Stars game.

There is NO WAY OF TELLING THE MOD IS STOLEN. What about that do you not flippin understand?

Is your ego that fragile that you're perfectly fine with "console peasants" being out, possibly $300 because of your free mod being redistributed? Please go away, don't start this again. I don't want to talk about the pure shittiness of that attitude. If you're that fragile, just stop modding. Just stop-- you obviously don't care about the community. Back to the way I put it:

You're burning a village, to catch a thief. IT. IS. MADNESS. Good Job, Targaeryen. Answer all your problems with fire.

EDIT: Furthermore, by including scripts that may break a game or console, you are supplying weapons to the terrorists now, you realize that? You're doing the work for them. By doing so, you have yourself become the very thing that will destroy the modding community. Good Job, on that one.

I was in Iraq for 3 years and never saw someone carrying around a Xbox to try and kill me with. I saw plenty of RPG rockets, bullets flying past me, IED explosions which crippled me, and many other things. To say that including F4SE scripts is supplying terrorists with a type of weapon is just ignorant. Why don't you go screw yourself before insulting any more vets that actually play these moddable games. F4SE is harmless you stupid ignorant s#*!, especially when used as DRM. It is a preventive measure and when used correctly a good one. Games are full of scripts, its how they function you corroded twat. God bless America, because we the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines will fight the wars.

Namea wrote: As a fellow veteran I find your use of the term "Rag Head" disgusting and quite indicative of the type of person you must be.

Derrick93 wrote: you should ask this to bethesda since all this mess is caused from them. Bethesda is responsable of bethesda.net, same for the safety and stability of the console version. And just to say, this is one of the most stupid comment i ever read on nexus.

Such drama.

Console users are not imbeciles. Some mods are going to break saves. PC users deal with this every time we download a mod, too. It happens. Missing masters, incorrect file locations (due to author or installation method, I have dealt with both), hell, I couldn't play Fallout 4 for two days recently because of Beth's ninja-patch, so F4SE didn't work. We have learned how to work within the limitations of modifying the game well beyond its original design parameters--it's one of the fun parts of modding for many of us--and we are aware of the problems it can cause. Console users have not dealt with that on their machines yet, but this is not Armageddon we're talking about here. These are computers, running video games.

There is a way to tell if a mod is stolen. Console users just need to be told how--it is called Google, and you type in the mod's title in that little search bar, and if you see it listed in the results on the Nexus or somewhere else, visit the page. If the author matches the Bethnet listing, or if the author has stated it is on Bethnet, you know it's legitimate. If not, just steer clear. If a console user is too lazy to do this (if they can access Bethnet on their XBone, they have internet, complete with browser, so there are literally NO EXCUSES on that, once they know), then they are choosing to be complicit with using potentially stolen mods. As Bethnet/CK gets fixed/improves, this step should be unnecessary, but until then, spread the word. Console users are not babies, despite the smack talk. They can manage simple internet searches.

When you learn to ride a bike or climb a tree, do you get hurt? Usually. Some skinned knees, maybe a broken arm, but you learn, and part of it is learning how not to skin your knees and break your arms. That's where the console community is right now. "They don't know any better" is not an excuse, it's condescending to the point of insult. Console users are learning, and once the furor of this whole debacle dies down a bit, they will keep learning, and get better, and maybe, just maybe, become a great part of the established modding community.

You deride pixelhate by saying they solve all their problems with fire, but you are the one pouring gasoline on this flame war just to watch the world burn. You also invoke terrorists, an odd metaphor (I HOPE it's a metaphor), so what's next, comparing someone to Hitler? Stop being a pedant and instead spread the word in the console community about their responsibility--yes, responsibility--in making sure the mods they download are legitimate. If you have no interest in doing that, you are simply here to whine and argue, which makes your comments less than useless, it makes them part of the problem.

Don't be that guy. Edited June 20, 2016 by xaosbob

[Epitoma]

start uploading nudity mods with PG-rated descriptions and thumbnails en-masse and watch them suddenly become selective about what mods are allowed on consoles.

 

if they have the manpower to quickly remove hidden boobs, they have the manpower to address claims of theft and are deliberately choosing not to do so.

[selassie]

The best thing Bethesda could have done way before all of this was to ask you guys for help, maybe even sponsoring the nexus FO4 section or maybe have their console section here on the nexus under their "flag". Had they done that — especially after the steam workshop fiasco — reached out to the community and asked for help everyone would win.

 

Instead they just didn't care (and still don't). Arrogance is bliss. Now console players that just want to have fun and play their game (just like PC players) are being burned by a tiny amount of 13 year olds.

 

With the Skyrim Special edition paying mods are right around the corner and I get a feeling that this time Beth will ignore everyone. I can't find any other explanation for them having this lousy platform (even I could have coded something better in 2 hours) on their website. If they don't start selling mods with the "new" Skyrim then their next game will surely have them from the get-go.

 

*sigh* anyways, I'm finally getting a Nexus membership at the end of the month when I get my meagre paycheck, just because you guys really deserve all the support. Thanks again.

[pizzapicante27]

Thanks for taking the time of writing this, I think I can just pretty much link this to anyone arguing "but the modders do it so that everyone can enjoy the mods, right?" from now on.

[boomerizer]

 

In response to post #39590680. #39591610, #39591915, #39592885 are all replies on the same post.

 

 

 

boomerizer wrote:

So, what? You're just OK with breaking savegames, games, and consoles?

..Ignorance can't be an excuse, no one is innocent...

The average console user, I wager just opens up Fallout 4> Clicks Mods> Browses Mods> Clicks Download> Wash Rinse Repeat until satisfied or download queue is full or whatever> Returns to menu> Stars game.

There is NO WAY OF TELLING THE MOD IS STOLEN. What about that do you not flippin understand?

Is your ego that fragile that you're perfectly fine with "console peasants" being out, possibly $300 because of your free mod being redistributed? Please go away, don't start this again. I don't want to talk about the pure shittiness of that attitude. If you're that fragile, just stop modding. Just stop-- you obviously don't care about the community. Back to the way I put it:

You're burning a village, to catch a thief. IT. IS. MADNESS. Good Job, Targaeryen. Answer all your problems with fire.

EDIT: Furthermore, by including scripts that may break a game or console, you are supplying weapons to the terrorists now, you realize that? You're doing the work for them. By doing so, you have yourself become the very thing that will destroy the modding community. Good Job, on that one.

jwa1975 wrote:

In response to post #39590680.

 

 

 

boomerizer wrote:

So, what? You're just OK with breaking savegames, games, and consoles?

..Ignorance can't be an excuse, no one is innocent...

The average console user, I wager just opens up Fallout 4> Clicks Mods> Browses Mods> Clicks Download> Wash Rinse Repeat until satisfied or download queue is full or whatever> Returns to menu> Stars game.

There is NO WAY OF TELLING THE MOD IS STOLEN. What about that do you not flippin understand?

Is your ego that fragile that you're perfectly fine with "console peasants" being out, possibly $300 because of your free mod being redistributed? Please go away, don't start this again. I don't want to talk about the pure shittiness of that attitude. If you're that fragile, just stop modding. Just stop-- you obviously don't care about the community. Back to the way I put it:

You're burning a village, to catch a thief. IT. IS. MADNESS. Good Job, Targaeryen. Answer all your problems with fire.

EDIT: Furthermore, by including scripts that may break a game or console, you are supplying weapons to the terrorists now, you realize that? You're doing the work for them. By doing so, you have yourself become the very thing that will destroy the modding community. Good Job, on that one.

I was in Iraq for 3 years and never saw someone carrying around a Xbox to try and kill me with. I saw plenty of RPG rockets, bullets flying past me, IED explosions which crippled me, and many other things. To say that including F4SE scripts is supplying terrorists with a type of weapon is just ignorant. Why don't you go screw yourself before insulting any more vets that actually play these moddable games. F4SE is harmless you stupid ignorant s***, especially when used as DRM. It is a preventive measure and when used correctly a good one. Games are full of scripts, its how they function you corroded *censored*. God bless America, because we the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines will fight the wars.

Namea wrote: As a fellow veteran I find your use of the term "Rag Head" disgusting and quite indicative of the type of person you must be.

Derrick93 wrote: you should ask this to bethesda since all this mess is caused from them. Bethesda is responsable of bethesda.net, same for the safety and stability of the console version. And just to say, this is one of the most stupid comment i ever read on nexus.

Such drama.

 

Console users are not imbeciles. Some mods are going to break saves. PC users deal with this every time we download a mod, too. It happens. Missing masters, incorrect file locations (due to author or installation method, I have dealt with both), hell, I couldn't play Fallout 4 for two days recently because of Beth's ninja-patch, so F4SE didn't work. We have learned how to work within the limitations of modifying the game well beyond its original design parameters--it's one of the fun parts of modding for many of us--and we are aware of the problems it can cause. Console users have not dealt with that on their machines yet, but this is not Armageddon we're talking about here. These are computers, running video games.

 

There is a way to tell if a mod is stolen. Console users just need to be told how--it is called Google, and you type in the mod's title in that little search bar, and if you see it listed in the results on the Nexus or somewhere else, visit the page. If the author matches the Bethnet listing, or if the author has stated it is on Bethnet, you know it's legitimate. If not, just steer clear. If a console user is too lazy to do this (if they can access Bethnet on their XBone, they have internet, complete with browser, so there are literally NO EXCUSES on that, once they know), then they are choosing to be complicit with using potentially stolen mods. As Bethnet/CK gets fixed/improves, this step should be unnecessary, but until then, spread the word. Console users are not babies, despite the smack talk. They can manage simple internet searches.

 

When you learn to ride a bike or climb a tree, do you get hurt? Usually. Some skinned knees, maybe a broken arm, but you learn, and part of it is learning how not to skin your knees and break your arms. That's where the console community is right now. "They don't know any better" is not an excuse, it's condescending to the point of insult. Console users are learning, and once the furor of this whole debacle dies down a bit, they will keep learning, and get better, and maybe, just maybe, become a great part of the established modding community.

 

You deride pixelhate by saying they solve all their problems with fire, but you are the one pouring gasoline on this flame war just to watch the world burn. You also invoke terrorists, an odd metaphor (I HOPE it's a metaphor), so what's next, comparing someone to Hitler? Stop being a pedant and instead spread the word in the console community about their responsibility--yes, responsibility--in making sure the mods they download are legitimate. If you have no interest in doing that, you are simply here to whine and argue, which makes your comments less than useless, it makes them part of the problem.

 

Don't be that guy.

 

The person shouldn't have to google everything just to pander to mod authors. If a mod is uploaded to Bethesda.net, it is Bethesda's responsibility to make sure it works, and doesn't break a game.

 

And JWA, are you serious? Did you seriously believe I meant ISLAMIC TERRORISTS? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

 

GO home. Go to the VA and get your s#*! checked, because clearly you are TRIGGERED. Je zuz f'in Kryst. No.

 

I, of course, meant the petulant children that steal mods, include some nefarious script with the intent to f*#@ s#*! up. Hackers. Script kiddies. Whatever you want to call them. You're an idiot that you think that I meant islamic extremists. I mean, I really want to be nice, here, I really do, but people like you make it extremely difficult.