On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[rypofalem]

In response to post #39485330. #39488480, #39488735, #39490310, #39491875, #39495320, #39496320, #39497760, #39499120 are all replies on the same post.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: I urge modders to keep their console brothers in mind when they make mods. Make sure your mods are in good working order and safe for them to use. We don't want any consoles getting damaged due to poor modding.

alanlwilcox wrote: How can a PC modder EVER make a mod safe for console gaming? There are no tools for a console game as said in an earlier post. Consoles are a new world that only Bethesda may know enough about to mod for them. I would think that consoles would be at great risk and will blame these modders for problems caused by pirated mods.

A_name wrote: There are 0 tools for a modder to troubleshoot on a console. And frankly asking a modder to buy 2 consoles just to test his mods is ridiculous anyway.

Maybe we should encourage the thieves or pirates to do the testing?
I am pretty damn sure a handful of modders would be glad to outsource this to them.
If they ask first of course.

chinagreenelvis wrote: AFAIK there shouldn't be any difference. Console mod problems will come from the the same source as PC mod problems: load order. It's not like you can write a mod that will physically destroy a console.

CrazyIvan12 wrote: ...and the troll/asshole, emboldened by this statement, set out to create a mod designed to do just that.

But in all seriousness, the biggest problem would be troubleshooting. People (including me) don't use consoles ever, and as a result, they have no way to bug test. I personally think, if the modder is the "won't upload to bethsda.net" type, if they can work something out with a console user to troubleshoot the mod, that they should think about uploading to bethesda

arn13 wrote: It's already quite difficult enough making sure your mod even works on the PC. My "Populated Wasteland" mod worked perfectly fine for me, but a lot of users reported problems on their end and I simply had no idea what could be causing it. If I'm not experiencing the same problems, how else can I troubleshoot it?

Now imagine if I had to do that for consoles too. That's just too much of a headache to even bother with.

UlanX wrote: I play this on PC, my husband on PS4 so I personally don't have an issue with mods for consoles. I understand very well why some people prefer consoles and there are games I prefer to play (or can only play on console). I don't go in for the whole "PC Master Race" nonsense. If I want to play a Final Fantasy game on Playstation, I damn well will. I won't suddenly be overcome with shame because "oh my god, a console!". That said I love my PC to bits and play several single player and MMO's with it. These divisions are artificial and created out of a need to be part of an "in-group".

That said, I can see how modding for consoles may be a bit more time consuming, beyond the need as some have pointed out, to own both the console and a PC to create the mods. I can currently make a mod on PC and test it straight away without having to faff around transferring it to console, testing it, switching back to PC to troubleshoot etc

jguerr73 wrote: yes you can

WiIIPWN4KFC wrote: @chinagreenelvis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di6Te-plqlY

So yeah, you're kind of wrong about not being able to destroy consoles with mods.

You guys are missing MrJoseCuervo's sarcasm. He is halfheartedly suggesting that modders put malicious code into their mod that does nothing for PC users but does something undesirable for consoles.

This way, if the mod was stolen and put on the console site, everyone who used the illegal copy would have something bad happen. (be it a simple game crash or perhaps something more serious like bricking the console)

This, of course, is a terrible idea because(among other reasons) it punishes even innocent people who don't realize it's a pirated copy. Edited June 18, 2016 by rypofalem

[Chao0oslord]

In response to post #39498625. #39499265, #39499445, #39500430, #39500805, #39501145 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Fallout 3
Release Date - October 28, 2008
Geck (v 1.1) - December 11, 2008

December 2009 - Already four major quests mods
Cube Experimental
A Note Easily Mist
An Evening with Mister Manchester
A Quest for Heaven 1

==============================
Fallout 4
Release date - November 10, 2015
Creation Kit (Beta !!!) - April 26, 2016

Great quest mods ( so far)... none

That's say pretty much all about Beth.
In the light of the last events, don't expect to see the "heavy" modders and modding team showing up... they wont.
Already a lot from the Nexus community jumped on... modders throats, already the same scenario from the pay mods uproar from the past year is repeating again with almost the same comentrolls !

It's tragic ( but also somehow fun for me ) to see how the Nexus community is tearing appart from inside out again, with a little push from Beth.
It seems that a lot of people here don't understand a simple fact : THERE IS NO COMMUNITY!
Nexus was, is and it will be a DOWNLOAD hub, regular users DON'T care from where they download a mod, as long is free., no matter is a PC mod or a console mod.
The immense majority of the users from Nexus and world wide don't give a sht about IP, copyright or mod stealing, they only want to download for FREE a lot of mods also for FREE, maybe less than 1.5% really care about what is happening ( from 10 mil registered users!)

Here on Dark0ne post page ( !!! ) there a lot of comentrolls insulting moders ( Douchebags, morons, spoiled child's, how many mods have you uploaded than ME... sound familiar?). Have someone reported them to sanitise the air?...

This very noisy and violent group of comentrolls have shifted the discussion from console modding and IP protection to modders morale and intentions... again.

Don't expect soon the great modders, they won't return to this toxic environment.

Have a nice day !

cridus wrote: and where will they go? I mean, if they want to keep modding.

WiIIPWN4KFC wrote: @cridus That's just it, they don't need to share their mods.

"9. Mod authors make mods for themselves first, and you second. If the second part, you, becomes too much of a problem for them, they’ll simply not want to share them with you at all."

cridus wrote: mmh I'm pretty sure that those modders that make huge mods with side quests, many npcs, etc. don't do them for themselves. also because, since they made them, they aren't gonna enjoy them as much as other people would, since they already know absolutely everything about them.

metalguy7312 wrote: I am curious as to what the release dates are on those four major quest mods were compared to the CK release date..
I am no mod creator on that level but I would think that less than two months past a BETA release on the CK isn't much time to be releasing huge quest mods but I could be wrong.

*edit to add that I guess I disagree with the OP and that given time, they (large quest mods) will come

foster xbl wrote: Completely spot on. OP hit the nail directly on the head.

@cridus

I stopped modding after oblivion. Since then, I occasionally edit skyrim mods to fit my personal taste and I use the skills I had learned with blender to make 3D art. All that makes me perfectly happy.
At the same time, new modders come, learn the ropes, and eventually they will be the one making the "big" mods. Life goes on. Edited June 18, 2016 by Cha0s_lord

[phantompally76]

In response to post #39500700.

wulfharth wrote: Anyone who knows anything about labor unions knows that companies will never treat anyone with fairness unless it is to their benefit. That's just a fact. If the workers form a union they can actually influence policy.

I think the best bet to resolve these recurring issues with Bethesda is for the mod authors to organize. If you make all the mods, and the mods make the game more profitable, you should have a say in the policies regarding them. Get together and go on strike.

I think Elianora is the only one who handled the situation appropriately. Blocking your mods is the best way to say, "These are my mods and I have the authority over them."

Now imagine if all the mod authors did the same thing. Do you think they might get off their asses and change policy? Mod authors wouldn't even have to stop modding, just stop sharing until Bethesda policed their site.

"If I cannot wield the Sword of Grayskull......then no one shall!"

--Skeletor

[numeriku]

http://a.fod4.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/citizen_cane.gif

 

Honestly, Bethesda made it perfectly clear where they stand and what they think of the modding community the moment they attempted paid-for mods. Bethesda only cares for Bethesda.

[treasurev]

In response to post #39493020. #39493465, #39494175, #39494320, #39494820, #39495215, #39495510, #39495745, #39495875, #39496060, #39496080, #39496750, #39496960, #39497070, #39497535, #39497750, #39498490, #39498745, #39498845, #39501930 are all replies on the same post.

arkancelo wrote: I stopped reading after some time.

This elementary prose is full of s#*!.

Dramaqueens (modders who cry when other people are able to enjoy their mods) need to grow up.

My God, what's this ego?

"I created you, you shall know my name, follow my cult and worship me!" - Abrahamic God/Average Modder

Seriously, just be happy that people can actually enjoy the content you made. Douchbags.

LightningYu wrote: So you say, its deserved that some poeple can simple steal things from other people, and you don't care because you can play the Mod on your Console. And you critize the modders for their ego. You are much more egoistic than any of these modders, which make the Content you can Enjoy in their free-time, where most people like Mod-User or the one who steals the mods are in 100years to lazy do their own work. How about you make an great mod, and than look how your own thing will be taken away, but why should you care, everyon cans play it. The way you act, shows now respect towards the modders,...

We will see, if modders keep modding when people still keep thefting or if modders find a way so their Mods works only on PC. Than we will see if console-players will still be happy, however (and no i'm not against Console-Gaming, because i myself also own an X1, PS4 and WiiU and half of my childhood i grew up with console) if you ask me, with that attitude by console-players you guys not even deserved mod-support.

Red890 wrote: While I also stopped reading after a while (It really was very long and repetitious),

I don't understand how you not only missed the point entirely, but have such a backwards and stupid view on how modding works. Modders don't like their work being stolen. I don't like my work being stolen (although I use Steam Workshop mostly). We spend dozens of hours or more (depending on mod size) working on projects we think are cool and are interesting for the community without pay.

The LEAST we deserve is credit for the work we've done and where the content WE produce can be distributed. Having some brainless shitlord include my map or skin in some stupid, bloated "l337 pack" doesn't make me happy. It makes me outright furious if they attempt to claim it as their own.

Now, I don't know if you're simply stupid, or if you are simply a petulant child that doesn't know much effort goes into making a good mod (maybe you're both), but saying "just be happy people can enjoy the content your made, even if they deliberately stole it and didn't credit you" has GOT to be the most retarded thing written this year.

By that insipid logic, movie credits shouldn't be a thing. Authors, musicians, and game developers should all remove their names from their work. After all, it doesn't matter who steals or copies it since those original creators should be HAPPY that people can enjoy their content, regardless of if they're credited or not.

I for one would be overjoyed to spend 100 hours working on a CSGO level for the explicit purpose of letting some 12 year old steal it, and claim original ownership. In fact, I should probably thank them, right?

daedriccat wrote: You can't just come in and demand what you want. It's that simple.

RaffTheSweetling wrote: Isn't it always the way. The people who've never endorsed a thing here, never added a mod of their own, or even a picture for others to enjoy, want to share their "valuable insights" on how authors should really feel when their work is stolen. It's incredible.

arn13 wrote: If you can't be bothered to read the entire thing, then at least copy and ctrl+F search for this section: "Why should mod authors care about others taking their work? Surely they release mods so that as many people as possible can enjoy them?"

It's not a question about someone having too much "ego." It's about having respect for other people's effort to actually create content for everyone to enjoy.

Shosholada wrote: + the point:

"9. Mod authors make mods for themselves first, and you second. If the second part, you, becomes too much of a problem for them, they’ll simply not want to share them with you at all."

End of story.

I wish to have option to block some users from my mods ;)

MysticalFlare wrote: Congrats on doing the complete opposite of what this article is trying to achieve.

jim_uk wrote: Files=0 Images=0 Videos=0 Friends=0 Endorsements Given=0 Files Tagged=0

Three years you've been here and you've contributed nothing at all.

Gilles19870 wrote: Ehhh no.. They made it for themselves first.. community second.. and if you just download the PC version, then alter it through the Creation Kit for console use.. then you're an thief. The original owner owns the rights to the mod.

The least you can do, if you reverse enigneer the mod, is credit the original maker.

If paid modding is to start on Bethesda's own site.. you have thiefs making a profit on somebody else's hard work.. that could open a whole sh*tload of complaints, and legal issues.

I understand Bethesda wanting their "own" mod site. Gives them great insight what the community wants in a new game.. but make sure the maker of the mod is the original maker. And not somebody that reversed engineered the mod from a pc version.

UlanX wrote: I don't think it's a god complex. I think it's more of a case of people are tired of the blatant sense of entitlement among some members of the gaming "community" (as reflected by your attitude). It's the same attitude you see on various forums where people are demanding, not asking, devs for this, that and the next thing. Claiming they know better than anyone else and basically being a selfish keyboard warrior. People who spend hours making content for others to enjoy at least deserve to be acknowledged and decide where, when and how their content is used.

Otherwise what I can see happening is people breaking off into smaller, closed modding guilds/groups and just producing content for a close knit community they know they can trust. I guess it's a case of "don't bite the hand that feeds you".

jagdhundnull wrote: @arkancelo

In all honesty, I think it's really difficult for you to make that argument when you seemingly haven't contributed anything to the community in 3 years.

And before you write me off as just another egotistical mod author, I'm not -- I too have no mods uploaded like yourself, and in 7 years at that. But I do enjoy and support the efforts of the mod authors, especially given the fact some of them have to deal with seeming toddlers clamoring for updates/fixes/new features as if the mod author doesn't have their own life to attend to. And don't get me started on the people who actively subscribe to the Fallout 4 betas and then complain to mod authors when the voluntary and ever-changing beta patches break the mod...

All that said, yeah, there are douchey mod authors here and there. Happens everywhere. But, while not having published any mods myself, I have made several personal ones, and can attest to the days, sometimes even weeks that can be spent on testing what you're trying to do to get it right. And that's just some simple stuff. Some of these mod authors have been working on their mods here and there since last November.

In the end, remember one thing about all this: the modding community is just that -- a community. It's voluntary. People donate time from their lives to provide this for the enjoyment of others. For them it's an achievement and also a bit fun. But if they become burnt out on the community, if it's no longer fun nor a positive thing for them, why should they even bother sharing mods?

When all the great mod authors on this website decide to pack up and move on with their lives, can we depend on you to give us the game-changing masterpieces?

Th3 Duk3 wrote: Now there's an idea: I'm not aloud to get mad for people stealing food out of my home, cause "other people should also be able to enjoy my food"

*facepalm*

khalkists wrote: Cool. So that means I should be able to come and take your computer right? Its yours, but, well... I should be able to enjoy it, irregardless of if you want to give it to me.

jguerr73 wrote: just wow

Red Titus wrote: If I may. I know how much work is involved in making mod. It's not just sketch things up and upload them. The programs that are involved, the effort in LEARNING how to use these tools. Nifscope, photoshop and others that even the author gives credit .It all takes time...I'll be honest with ya. I've tried to use some of these programs, and just could not get it. Yeah, you have some modders with ego trips. But you know what? It's deserved. Time, effort and a lot of patience. I've been a gamer since the Atari era. Blocks for graphics and paddles the size of tennis rackets. Well maybe a little exaggerated . I too owned many consoles and enjoyed them very much. And still own a ps4, and maybe the ps4.5 in the future. When I heard that they where going to suped up the ps4 or even Xbox1, first thing that came to my mind ,they're going to be able to run the more powerful mods. If feel even though mods are free, I still should contribute something. If not financially, how about endorsements. I'am baffled by how many downloads and so little endorsements. And the sad thing is many of the authors only as for endorsements. Hence "please endorse". One thing both the pc and console people have in common, we enjoy playing video games. WE'RE GAMERS. But when I download a mod, I don't take it for granted. And am very thankful to the modding community for the work they've done, free of charge. Even this site is free. Thank you modders for your free stuff. And I will continue to at the very least endorse your stuff. Again, thank you...

cridus wrote: @arkancelo

lol you REALLY should have kept reading, because this argument you raised is covered near the end. search this in the page: "Why should mod authors care about others taking their work? Surely they release mods so that as many people as possible can enjoy them?"

and feel stupid.


edit: wow I had this page open for a while. I've probably been ninja'd several times, lol

Tinypigs wrote: So, you're evaluating a text that you yourself specifically claimed to not have read. And you expect your opinion to be considered valid? No. It's not. Read the text, where he talks about exactly the type of thing you are raging at, and THEN comment on it.

And in regards to your depressingly over-cynical image of all mod authors, do you not see how insanely unreasonable it is for you to have reached this level of entitlement over something other people have put THEIR OWN TIME into and you get to enjoy FOR FREE?! Come on. Even if a mod author is a total shitface, you have absolutely no right to demand anything.

Your role is simple. In this particular case you are only a consumer. Your only power lies in either using a mod, or not using it. Yet you for some reason seem to think that you enjoying someones content gives you a say in what they should or shouldn't do with it. Almost like the author should be thanking you for your "gracious consumption".

NO! THATS NOT HOW AUTHORSHIP WORKS!

Tinypigs wrote: Yeah this OP managed most idiotic comment i've seen in this entire discussion.

lsinsocal wrote: YOU are why we can't have nice things.

Okay, so your line of thinking is simply "If people can enjoy it, that's all there is to it"?

It shouldn't matter if someone owns it and therefore has rights to choose what is done with it?

Okay, feel free to give me your address so I can come and steal your car that you've spent years putting together piece by piece. Hey, I can enjoy it so it doesn't matter if you own it or not right? Your attitude is precisely what is inciting this entire issue arkancelo..it reeks of pure entitlement.

[Chao0oslord]

I've messed up my oblivion or skyrim install quite a few times already with mods, and who knows how many more if I didn't have access to the console or file browser to debug it. Mods have always been "use at your own risk". Due to that, console modding smells trouble especially if users expect it to work flawlessly, and stolen mods are certainly not going to work flawlessly.

 

Mods are certainly unsuitable for consoles. But there is no reason to at least try. Who knows, it could pionneer console modding and become a standard in 5 years.

[stainglasshart]

My best wishes go out to all those who have had their mods stolen, this sucks! :(

[wulfharth]

In response to post #39500700. #39503365 is also a reply to the same post.

wulfharth wrote: Anyone who knows anything about labor unions knows that companies will never treat anyone with fairness unless it is to their benefit. That's just a fact. If the workers form a union they can actually influence policy.

I think the best bet to resolve these recurring issues with Bethesda is for the mod authors to organize. If you make all the mods, and the mods make the game more profitable, you should have a say in the policies regarding them. Get together and go on strike.

I think Elianora is the only one who handled the situation appropriately. Blocking your mods is the best way to say, "These are my mods and I have the authority over them."

Now imagine if all the mod authors did the same thing. Do you think they might get off their asses and change policy? Mod authors wouldn't even have to stop modding, just stop sharing until Bethesda policed their site.

phantompally76 wrote: "If I cannot wield the Sword of Grayskull......then no one shall!"

--Skeletor

If Skeletor made the damn sword than he gets to make the rules.

One or two more of these little freetard entitle-a-thons and mod authors will create their own closed communities.

[CaladanAnduril]

In response to post #39500700. #39503365, #39504175 are all replies on the same post.

wulfharth wrote: Anyone who knows anything about labor unions knows that companies will never treat anyone with fairness unless it is to their benefit. That's just a fact. If the workers form a union they can actually influence policy.

I think the best bet to resolve these recurring issues with Bethesda is for the mod authors to organize. If you make all the mods, and the mods make the game more profitable, you should have a say in the policies regarding them. Get together and go on strike.

I think Elianora is the only one who handled the situation appropriately. Blocking your mods is the best way to say, "These are my mods and I have the authority over them."

Now imagine if all the mod authors did the same thing. Do you think they might get off their asses and change policy? Mod authors wouldn't even have to stop modding, just stop sharing until Bethesda policed their site.

phantompally76 wrote: "If I cannot wield the Sword of Grayskull......then no one shall!"

--Skeletor

wulfharth wrote: If Skeletor made the damn sword than he gets to make the rules.

One or two more of these little freetard entitle-a-thons and mod authors will create their own closed communities.

You are sure that this community is not already existing ?!...;)

[CaladanAnduril]

In response to post #39498625. #39499265, #39499445, #39500430, #39500805, #39501145, #39503195 are all replies on the same post.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Fallout 3
Release Date - October 28, 2008
Geck (v 1.1) - December 11, 2008

December 2009 - Already four major quests mods
Cube Experimental
A Note Easily Mist
An Evening with Mister Manchester
A Quest for Heaven 1

==============================
Fallout 4
Release date - November 10, 2015
Creation Kit (Beta !!!) - April 26, 2016

Great quest mods ( so far)... none

That's say pretty much all about Beth.
In the light of the last events, don't expect to see the "heavy" modders and modding team showing up... they wont.
Already a lot from the Nexus community jumped on... modders throats, already the same scenario from the pay mods uproar from the past year is repeating again with almost the same comentrolls !

It's tragic ( but also somehow fun for me ) to see how the Nexus community is tearing appart from inside out again, with a little push from Beth.
It seems that a lot of people here don't understand a simple fact : THERE IS NO COMMUNITY!
Nexus was, is and it will be a DOWNLOAD hub, regular users DON'T care from where they download a mod, as long is free., no matter is a PC mod or a console mod.
The immense majority of the users from Nexus and world wide don't give a sht about IP, copyright or mod stealing, they only want to download for FREE a lot of mods also for FREE, maybe less than 1.5% really care about what is happening ( from 10 mil registered users!)

Here on Dark0ne post page ( !!! ) there a lot of comentrolls insulting moders ( Douchebags, morons, spoiled child's, how many mods have you uploaded than ME... sound familiar?). Have someone reported them to sanitise the air?...

This very noisy and violent group of comentrolls have shifted the discussion from console modding and IP protection to modders morale and intentions... again.

Don't expect soon the great modders, they won't return to this toxic environment.

Have a nice day !

cridus wrote: and where will they go? I mean, if they want to keep modding.

WiIIPWN4KFC wrote: @cridus That's just it, they don't need to share their mods.

"9. Mod authors make mods for themselves first, and you second. If the second part, you, becomes too much of a problem for them, they’ll simply not want to share them with you at all."

cridus wrote: mmh I'm pretty sure that those modders that make huge mods with side quests, many npcs, etc. don't do them for themselves. also because, since they made them, they aren't gonna enjoy them as much as other people would, since they already know absolutely everything about them.

metalguy7312 wrote: I am curious as to what the release dates are on those four major quest mods were compared to the CK release date..
I am no mod creator on that level but I would think that less than two months past a BETA release on the CK isn't much time to be releasing huge quest mods but I could be wrong.

*edit to add that I guess I disagree with the OP and that given time, they (large quest mods) will come

foster xbl wrote: Completely spot on. OP hit the nail directly on the head.

Cha0s_lord wrote: @cridus

I stopped modding after oblivion. Since then, I occasionally edit skyrim mods to fit my personal taste and I use the skills I had learned with blender to make 3D art. All that makes me perfectly happy.
At the same time, new modders come, learn the ropes, and eventually they will be the one making the "big" mods. Life goes on.

MetalGuy - Just look at the release dates of those mods on FO3 page... but maybe you are right, we must wait and hope, after all the hope is dying the last. :) Edited June 18, 2016 by CaladanAnduril