The Civil War - I'm Clueless

[Modslave]

Is anyone else feeling a bit confused as to specifically how this civil war fits into the overall pursuit of things in Skyrim? I'm not talking about the Dohvakin main quest but just the rest of the world in general.

 

I feel like I'm experiencing the same level of sense of environment confusion I had when I translated all my experience from Morrowind into Oblivion....coming from Morrowind I viewed the Empire as a bad thing, after awhile I became fairly pro-Empire as the story revolves around it.

 

Now we have Skyrim and I get that same sense of direction confusion because now I've got the Empire, which is apparently in shambles (and I'm sure this is covered in the books in game but whos had time to read them all yet?) and pushing people around apparently sorta being dicks....big surprise they were doing that in Morrowind. And we have this Nord rebellion popping up that about 2/3rds of Skyrim appears to not support.

 

I just don't quite understand how this plays into the overarching situation in Skyrim...is it going to matter extensively whether I side with one side or the other? Will the Imperials get driven out if I join the Stormcloaks? Will the Nord cities loyal to the Empire break off into a second civil war once I've driven the Empire out of Skyrim?

 

Should I drive the Empire out of Skyrim? I really don't know...its so hard to even get a read on what I feel is "best" for my character because the current timeline doesn't have enough available information to give me a good feel for what I feel is best for Skyrim and whether I should get involved at all.

[WarKirby3333]

the situation, as i understand it: (note all of the following is roughly remembered and may not be 100% accurate)

 

The thalmor are a political party that have taken power of both the high elves and wood elves, forming them into an alliance called the Aldmeri Dominion

 

the Aldmeri Dominion invades the Empire, which is a complete rout and results in the signing of the White Gold Concordat, a treaty which basically reads "we own you".

 

Skyrim is, up until now, an imperial province. However, one of the core conditions of the treaty is that the empire bans the worship of Talos, the Ninth Divine. This is because unlike the other 8, talos is a human hero who somehow ascended to divinity. The elves believe this is impossible, and thus any worship of him is harshly punished.

 

Talos worship is prominent in skyrim, where he is known as Ysgramor, because in life, he was a Nord. So the nords take the outlawing of talos very hard.

 

 

Believing (rightly) that the empire is a puppet state, and that being part of it is no longer in skyrim's best interests, Ulfric stormcloak starts a rebellion. One of his main acts in doing this is killing the King of skyrim, who he views as a weak puppet. The stormcloak account of this is that he challenged the king to an honorable duel in Nord tradition, and won. The Empire/thalmor viewpoint is that he murdered the king.

 

I would estimate the percentage of the popultion that supports the revolt is more like 50-60%, they seem to be generally in favor. however, about 60% of skyrim's towns are empire controlled, basically the entire western side of the map. Stormcloaks control the east. Both factions are, theoretically, engaged in war for skyrim, although in practice the war is somewhat inactive and at a stalemate. at least until you come along.

 

Ulfric Stormcloak's aims are, in no particular order:

-To take solitude, and depose the surviving wife of the dead king

-to overthrow and replace any jarls that support the empire

-to drive imperial influence out of skyrim entirely

-to be crowned high king of skyrim, with windhelm as his capital

-To invade the empire, and annihilate the thalmor.

Edited November 13, 2011 by WarKirby3333

[MrTastix]

To sum it all up:

 

Forth Era Empire: Elves who pretty much abolished the Imperial Empire that we see during the time of the Oblivion Crisis (not completely, mind you, but so much so that it doesn't really matter).

 

Stormcloaks: Nords who think Elves suck for "stealing" their land.

 

You get more info on the Thalmor and Blades in some of the in-game books but ultimately, the Thalmor invade and kick the crap out of everyone, everyone thinks the Blades got owned and ran off to die somewhere and the Thalmor took the old Empires spot.

[Modslave]

I took the opportunity today to try to get a first hand view of how I felt about the situation by traipsing out to Windhelm and then all the way across country to Solitude...simply to try to get a better view on both parties.

 

 

Windhelm

 

- After entering the city gates the first thing I'm greeted by as an impression is a pair of extremely prejudiced Nord's harassing a Dunmer female and threatening her with harm at some point later.

- The city is in shambles. It looks mostly like a ruin that people are inhabiting.

- After entering the hall of the high king theres a drawn out conversation between Ulfric Stormcloak and one of his generals. Ulfric seems well spoken, thoughtful and intelligent, the general seems like blindly loyal thug muscle.

 

Overall impression: Skyrim for the Nords seems like it has an enlightened leader but also seems pretty full of ill bred thugs that give the entire cause a bad feeling, they're very pro-Nord and negative towards any other races.

 

 

 

Solitude

 

- After trekking all the way across Skyrim and entering Solitude, I was greet by a scene at the gate where someone who had apparently helped Ulfic Stormcloak escape Solitude was about to be beheaded. He accepted his death with the typical Nord stoniness. The crowd was very negative towards him. There was a Altmer woman there when I talked to her she said something along the lines of "They should have drawn it out more and used a saw, he deserved a more painful death than that"......oh really?

- The city is in much better condition than Windhelm. The people seem less destitute.

- After entering the Legion hall, there was a conversation between General Tullius and one of his aides about the possibility of Ulfric attacking Whiterun and deposing the Jarl there. Tullius is more than happy to try to recruit an escaped prisoner to their cause and recognizes me as the one that escaped Helgren immediately. Overall the conversation between the General and his aide is pretty practical, who cares if he attacks Whiterun, damn Nords and their Jarls and blah blah. Overall the feeling is the Empire doesn't really care much about specific cities being taken by the Stormcloaks they just want to put down Ulfric and try to end the rebellion that way.

 

Overall impression: A city that seems more egalitarian and accepting of all races, but the worship of Talos is obviously banned there, the Altmer and Bosmer inhabitants seem quite full of themselves and have very bad opinions of the Nord natives of Skyrim.

 

 

 

Overall Summary: Both sides appear to have their negatives and positives. There appear to be racists on both sides of the conflict. And while freeing Skyrim from the Empire sounds good and noble, is it really tactically sound against the potential fact of the Aldmeri Dominion simply invading the country in total with the Empire behind them, cause I can't see one country, even a country full of Nords standing against that militarily. But then maybe that doesn't matter in the long run. Overall it just seems like neither side really has anything that recommends it over the other, its down to which you feel is the least morally problematic for you, I suppose. Which I guess is good.

 

[huntsman2310]

I was originally thinking of joining the Stormcloaks, then I learned they were going to attack Whiterun and take it over, a bit of a dick move if you ask me. So I'm siding with the loyalists, the empire needs to be unified to face down the Thalmor.

[Katalytica]

but the empire can't be unified because of the white gold concordat, the elves own basically everyone under the empire, so i suppose an RP elf of any kind would support the empire, therefore supporting the underlying Aldmeri dominion. Whereas any other character would support the rebellion, and freedom, unsure at this stage

wether or not blue face paint would make any difference.

[PSQGL]

As I stated in earlier posts before the game's coming out, and now more so since I'm seeing it with my character's eyes, the Empire is no more.

5 minutes into the game and I get badmouthed by a higher-than-thou patrol of High Elves (and I'm a Breton, mind you) and the more I see it, the more I get the idea that the wheel of history has done a full spin and now the Elves are back at it again.

pr0's analysis is pretty accurate: there is no "better choice", only the one you judge the best.

I chose the Stormcloaks, and while I haven't joined yet (too many things to do to get political now) I showed my support in many, many ways (up to and including freeing prisoners, spying, and the glorious cleansing of a fortress full of Aldmer. Who's high and mighty now, eh?).

[PrincessOfFlorin]

The fact that neither side is wholly admirable is one of the things I love about this game.

[Lyanheart]

I joined the Stormcloaks because the Empire is not the same empire my character worked so hard to save in Morrowind and Oblivion... I refuse to kneel to those Dominion bastards! :P

[MrTastix]

Remember that the racism that the Altmer and Bosmer vomit out is one of the entire reasons the Empire is now "run" by the Thalmor/Admeri Dominion. They're arrogant and rather open with what they think.

 

Quite frankly, I'd rather kill them all and let the Divines sort it out.

 

I felt the same when I played The Witcher, too, as it utilizes the same sort of warring between races. I never liked it. In Skyrim I can simply roleplay my character one way or the other (which I do) but on a personal level, I'd rather just do what I'm destined to do, and that's kick some dragon ass.