Defeating the Institute without resorting to Nukes

[sampuppy]

I mean seriously. After seeing what the world became cause of nukes, I'm supposed to believe... No it's ridiculous.... and the minute men, even though there's more innocents than you can count down there. Sorry just no, no no no. No way my character would resort to nukes. We created a working damn teleporter, the institute thinks I'm an ally. I've been inside, I know the layout of the area the build all their synths. Sure we can instead of being psychopathic pussies actually go down there, fight and take the damn place over. Turn it into a neat settlement or something.

 

I'm so sick of games resorting to extremism and psychopathy when there are other options. Hell can I choose none of the above and cripple and take down the psychpaths in each group, as they're all clearly rearing to go for fallout 2.0.

[SargeWashington]

That's the thing with Bethesda Fallout games. The 'moral choice' options are more, 'which group of people do you want to turn into cinders?', and less actual moral dilemmas. Hell, the only 'real' moral dilemma I ran into was playing as a BoS character and deciding whether or not to save Synth Shaun. They tout that your actions will have consequences, and then chicken out from actually coding them in.

 

Sadly, I wouldn't expect to see any changes to this anytime soon, because it would not only be a massive undertaking to rewrite the entire final quest, but there'd have to be hundreds of things added to the individual characters. Not to mention there's some bits that are probably complete hardcode.

 

 

I would dearly love to see a more peaceful option than, 'DUURRRR NUKES EVERYWHAIR!' though.

[Jeffman12]

I sided with the institute and found it absurd that a peace could not be brokered, at least not with the Railroad.

If you want to know

Father gives you control of the institute pending his succumbing to cancer

So there's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to determine the policy moving forward.

If I had my way

I'd have created a 'work release' program for synths curious about the outside world, and attempted extending an olive branch to the railroad in order to negotiate the return of wiped synths to undo the damage of releasing more dangerous rogue elements into the commonwealth when they could be productive members of society instead.

 

 

I still think the deciding clash should be between the Brotherhood and the Institute. BOS hates synths, and the Institute's long term goal is basically to science at all costs.

[pra]

Thank you! I was thinking the same thing: why can't I just take the institute over? Either you kill everyone in there and take over the infrastructure, or you make them surrender, either by wiping their synth army or by threatening to blow up the reactor.

 

With Acadia from Far Harbor, you could do even more. Not sure if there are any spoilers, but I'll just use the spoiler tag anyway

 

 

DiMA could ask you to retrieve all the construction plans for the machines needed to build synths. Then they build their own synth factory, and give the institute a taste of their own medicine: they kidnap/kill coursers or scientists on the surface and replace them with their own, infiltrating the institute and taking it over in the end.

 

 

[Degby1]

This can be done, the conditions need to be tweaked to "trick" the game into allowing a "diplomatic" ending.

 

It is basically the Minuteman Definitive Ending whereby The Railroad and the BoS recognise the Minuteman victory but they (BoS and RR) don't acknowledge eachother as still being alive, hence why the RR talk as if Glory has been killed in the BoS raid when she's standing 2 foot from them.

 

In this "diplomatic" ending the 3 factions would believe and have dialog relating to the Institute being blown up, whereas the Institute would have dialog talking about the BoS and RR being wiped out.

 

It's all in the conditions, it may even be made easier if someone can restore the quest where u can properly take over the BoS by ousting Maxson. I'm new to the Creation Kit but I am still exploring ways to make this diplomatic ending possible.

[Jeffman12]

This can be done, the conditions need to be tweaked to "trick" the game into allowing a "diplomatic" ending.

 

It is basically the Minuteman Definitive Ending whereby The Railroad and the BoS recognise the Minuteman victory but they (BoS and RR) don't acknowledge eachother as still being alive, hence why the RR talk as if Glory has been killed in the BoS raid when she's standing 2 foot from them.

 

In this "diplomatic" ending the 3 factions would believe and have dialog relating to the Institute being blown up, whereas the Institute would have dialog talking about the BoS and RR being wiped out.

 

It's all in the conditions, it may even be made easier if someone can restore the quest where u can properly take over the BoS by ousting Maxson. I'm new to the Creation Kit but I am still exploring ways to make this diplomatic ending possible.

Good point, and I'm sure that quest triggers could be implemented to prevent the factions from speaking as though these decisive battles have occurred.

 

This also reminded me, I think it important to note that peace should be a thing you're working towards since the outset of conflict, all the way back to the battle of bunker hill, for that matter.

 

If you can somehow ensure that the railroad (not necessarily their runaway synths) are able to escape, while the Brotherhood and Institute fight to a stalemate, (Maybe have the institute take prisoners on site) that could be used to open negotiations.

[Iamkiing]

bumping

[Degby1]

 

This can be done, the conditions need to be tweaked to "trick" the game into allowing a "diplomatic" ending.

 

It is basically the Minuteman Definitive Ending whereby The Railroad and the BoS recognise the Minuteman victory but they (BoS and RR) don't acknowledge eachother as still being alive, hence why the RR talk as if Glory has been killed in the BoS raid when she's standing 2 foot from them.

 

In this "diplomatic" ending the 3 factions would believe and have dialog relating to the Institute being blown up, whereas the Institute would have dialog talking about the BoS and RR being wiped out.

 

It's all in the conditions, it may even be made easier if someone can restore the quest where u can properly take over the BoS by ousting Maxson. I'm new to the Creation Kit but I am still exploring ways to make this diplomatic ending possible.

Good point, and I'm sure that quest triggers could be implemented to prevent the factions from speaking as though these decisive battles have occurred.

 

This also reminded me, I think it important to note that peace should be a thing you're working towards since the outset of conflict, all the way back to the battle of bunker hill, for that matter.

 

If you can somehow ensure that the railroad (not necessarily their runaway synths) are able to escape, while the Brotherhood and Institute fight to a stalemate, (Maybe have the institute take prisoners on site) that could be used to open negotiations.

 

I think you're onto something using the Battle of Bunker Hill as a catalyst for peace talks, if only for the sake of immersion. The runaway synth missions could still be optional as the production of Gen-3's may not cease, depending upon the nature of the BoS-Institute conflict.

 

If the path you are suggesting were to be pursued it would result in the failiure of Nuclear Option/Institutionalised and would start the new custom made quest where you have to speak to Maxson, Garvey and Desdemona and tell them that a peace deal is being made now that your the leader of the Institute. New ending slides could be added, such as using that mod already on the Nexus, perhaps with a voice over. But they're just cosmetic for now.

 

The meat of it is the conditions, and adding a custom made quest allowing for diplomacy might actually be the easiest solution relatively speaking. The dialog between the characters would either need to be unvoiced or spliced from other lines.

 

I'll get to looking into this

[Degby1]

UPDATE - I tried a hypothesis of mine involving console commands. I found that by entering "000bad00 200" (Institute main quest/Nuclear Family) followed by "0010c64a 1900/2000" (MM Nuclear Option) the game is tricked into accepting all 4 endings. X6-88 has dialog refering to working with u in the Institute, Preston Garvey and Sturges praise you for blowing up the Institute.

 

I found that the implications were -

 

Father remains alive and well.

Preston chews you out for not issuing an evac order.

The Railroad turn hostile as a result of the evac order not being issued.

Madison Li uses end game Institute dialog as if she were never recruited by the BoS.

Proctor's Teagen and Quinlan will not speak to you (after activating the hidden New Dawn ending in which you are made a Sentinel after a MM victory)

 

This will indeed require alot of trial and error and tweaking of scripts, such as the activators involving the evac order and dialog of NPC's etc.

 

I'll include screenshots at a later date when I have better method to this but for now, this can be tried by anyone to see for yourself.

For a better result I suggest playing up until Mass Fusion and Blind Betrayal, when the majority of the faction main quests have been completed.

 

Bottom line - This can be done !

[Jeffman12]

Sweet! What serendipity that I decided to become active on the forums again on this day.