Nexus Mod Manager focus group needs more help

[PirateZ86]

In response to post #40015630. #40058265, #40085015, #40091830, #40102215, #40122155, #40132340, #40188950, #40205240, #40214800, #40222720, #40234620, #40260320 are all replies on the same post.

stebo104 wrote: DO NOT USE NMM use instead MO (Mod Organizer). NMM puts all mods into your game data folders and over/re writes several files, which over time if you change mods alot will ruin your base game files (making game unplayable and having your redownload whole game). Now MO on the other hand puts all mods into a mod only folder within MO. When you run the game, it creates a virtual folder to run games (ie skyrim, fo4, fonv, ect) with the mods you have active. Not to mention when it comes to same files from different mods rewriting over and over again, MO uses a priority list (such as a texture file from mods A B C and D, if in order of A-1, C-2, B-3, D-4 it will use the texture file from mod D as 4 is higher then 1.) Now MO also has some advanced features, but you'd have to go to youtude and watch some videos on that.

djtalks wrote: Yeah, your full of crap... Clearly havnt used NMM of late. To be quite honest I liked it better when there wasn't a virtual folder. You MO fan boys kill me. Texture mods are just overwrites..
You basicly added yourself a whole new load order to fight with and think its cool.

If you don't want to use it don't.. But don't show up here acting like something is better that dose the same thing. Like I have said many times and will say again a lot of mods have issue being installed with MO I have 2 I made that I just click and hit yes to all in NMM and it works. MO users still have issues installing them.

HadToRegister wrote: Yea, and you can't even download and install MO.
It says "Install Failed" because of some "Connection Error"
Pretty hard to try a Mod Organizer you can't even install

PirateZ86 wrote: If you want to just hate MO for everything, go ahead but if you are want to really get a solution, they have a troubleshooting page on Github. They help people fix issues.

@djtalks : Having my data folder clean and choosing which mods overwrites which even after installing just by dragging it above or below, creating profiles is really good. I don't have a single mod issue with MO, please specify a few. I have nothing against NMM as it's good but MO is far superior atleast for me. A single person creating a tool for everyone without expecting anything in return must be appreciated not insulted because of your petty fanboy feelings. If you are paid to do that I'm happy for you since it atleast benefits you rather than just emotional talks.

TheLionHearted27 wrote: The reality is that people with very limited experience or knowledge of mods, can use NMM as a starting platform to jump into the modding scene. NMM is easy to install and to use. MO takes some knowledge and practice, its not outright easy to use, for lets say, a 10-12 year old kid who just wants to add a few mods to his/her game. Try explaining everything you just said to someone who has never modded a day in their life, they'll give you the "wtf" face...lol! NMM for a complete beginner is a simple tool to get started with, and panders to a wider range of users on both sides of the spectrum, that being authors and casual gamers. Smart business savvy people understand that to get more customers/clients, you need to expand your horizons and cater to all types of users. MO isn't as widely used, because it has a harder learning curve. It's great for everything it can do, and in your opinion does some things better than NMM, but this is circumstantial, due to your preference of features.

idplayer wrote: since oblivion i tested all mod organizers. i'm sure that experienced users currently would never go back to another mod organizing tool if the they understand the principles of mod organizer and are able to handle this platform properly.
some need the experience of 10 new full installations, some other need 100 or more to realize that mo is a gem. this is the only tool you never need to do a full installation again and to have full control over all mods.
nmm is absolutely ok for beginners and if using only a few known and hopefully bugfree mods. using more will surely end up in a full installation simply because the first bigger dirty mod will physically screw up all the other installed mods without a chance to reverse the mess. i fully agree with lionhearted and i recommend all who are happy with nmm to use it until they are tired doing full installations with a ton of mods

HadToRegister wrote: @PirateZ86

The only "Fanboys" here who are insulting anybody, is YOU and stebo14, as this entire thread is about a NEXUS MOD MANAGER FOCUS GROUP, NOT about Mod Organizer.

It was an insult to the NMM team, and an "emotional talk" on your, and stebo14's part to tell everybody NOT to use NMM in an NMM Focus Group thread.
Don't hijack the thread with advertisements about MO, I doubt people are going to github and telling people to use NMM. (And if they are, then shame on them too)

kkthebeast wrote: Yeah unfortunately for me I had nothing but trouble with MO, Instant CTD when trying to run FO4, LOOT instantly CTD, And F4SE would not load either. I like the interface though, Being able to see your Plugins list and installed Mods at the same time was nice.

Maybe we could see some of the interface tweaks in NMM. like being able to pin the Plugins and Mods to the same windows. That would be handy for manually sorting the load order. (I Can't really use loot, With VIS there are too many "unregistered" patches that LOOT doesn't know what to do with.)

idplayer wrote: @kkthebeast - your inability to handle mo successfully doesn't change the fact that the virtual file system and the pysical separation of the mods is superior in long term use. your described problems are as far as you described not mo related.
the physical separation of mod files should become a key feature in nmm. if so it would be a competitive tool for the use in a complex setup environment. in my opinion this is a key feature for long term stability and the prerequisite for 100% save rollback in case of a faulty mod or installtion error without the necessity to reinstall all the previously installed and affected mods. i'm sure many nmm users would be happy to see this feature included in nmm

underskyzx wrote: MO if you serious about modding, NMM if you just want to get things working.

rblood01 wrote: Disclaimer: I am a user that uses both Mod Organizer (I) and NMM (for Fallout 4)

Mod Organizer is great for a few games. It does have a higher learning curve. Even Gopher states that in one of his MO videos. Most starting users don't have the understanding of this and using MO is more difficult. NMM can be used for ALL GAMES hosted here or at least all I have seen. Providing one standard interface is very useful to keep your computer slim as opposed to having 2 or more managers.

Now for the statement that it will screw up your entire install and you have to download it again. That just isn't true. You just have to verify cache and Steam will update those files that are messed up. Often times only a minute or so on any decent internet connection. I never HAD TO download the entire game again or even uninstall and restore from backup the entire game.

True that MO has some useful tools like the "Hide" function and the conflicts easily found. However the future versions of NMM will have the Profile sharing (I believe that is the name) where entire profiles can be shared across the web and hosted here etc Ones setup can be easily setup by even the most novice user with a few clicks. This is a tools that as far as I can tell can't be added to MO at least not currently. Imagine someone like Gopher or GP creating a profile and uploading it for you to download. Create a video on the new profile to let you see what it is all about. Those experienced in creating and resolving conflicts and issues can create beautiful complex and unique game mod profiles far more complex than most basic users and beginners can have. Ease of installation also means that you can try one or two or three etc and always return to the your favorites be it yours or someone elses with a few click (because you can also backup your own profiles, how often has someone had to recreate a profile after some time because of a computer issue? )

I use both and view mod mangers as tools in my box to use where most appropriate for my current needs. Nothing more. One isn't better than the other. The only main job of a mod manager is to install and remove the mods selected properly. NMM does this now quite well unlike some versions in its past and it is getting better.

HadToRegister wrote: The only use I see for the shareable profiles is modders having their profiles posted, for their MOD that also includes the extra REQUIRED Mods from other mod makers in order for their mod to work.

Me, I have no use for that, what I DO have use for is not having to CTRL+ALT+DEL 5 times in a row because NMM decides it can't install/uninstall a mod.

As far as MO, who cares?
Again, this is an NMM TOPIC and THREAD.

Seriously, can we stop this sickening trend of Tribal Mentality?
It's bad enough Bethesda brought it to the foreground with the Console vs PC stuff, and now we're getting MO vs NMM in here.

Use what you want, and shut up about it

soulgamers wrote: HI HadToRegister
:armscrossed:
HeHe! your Right. well said. :woot:

:laugh: :wacko: :laugh::laugh:
:thumbsup:

:wallbash: People saying others not to do while doing the same, real mature.

[Blazerer]

I bought a lifetime subscription just for this post. Keep up the good work, Paul and team, and keep being awesome.

[BigShotJoe]

In response to post #40261200.

omfgnonames wrote: Took me 30 mins to figure out I had to log in by pressing the red icon of the man in the bottom left. No menu options or anything. This felt like a lame program created by a 12 year old with no concept of modern GUI design. Other than that it's wonderful. Maybe embed functions that LOOT has into it, other than the auto-sort I mean. More automation is always a great thing.

EDIT: Since so many people use ad-blocker, include a Google Ad in it, somewhere unintrusive. I wouldn't mind that and personally it would probably generate thousands a day in revenue, if my guess on the number of active views the NMM gets a day is correct.

To be fair, NMM opens and logs in automatically when you try to download something from this site if you click the "Use NMM" button that most mod pages have.

On a separate note, the only real issue I have with NMM's GUI is the search function. Sure, it works great and all, but after you find the mod you were looking for and empty the search bar, every single category folder that contained the first letter you typed remains open. Most times, this includes at least 60% of your mods. If they would close again when the search bar was emptied, it would be much nicer.

[phalen]

In response to post #40227615.

turulo wrote: Ok! Simple UI Feature List That Should Be Easy To Add:

- Disable Full Width Column Auto Size (also know as enable the horizontal scrollbar)
- Filter Mod Entries by Column Values (not the current filter that is not useful)
- My favorite would be filter-out mods that are not activated.
- Allow hiding columns
- F2: Should rename an entry
- Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, Ctr+X, Shift-Insert, Shift-Delete while editing an entry name should paste/cut/copy in the entry name and not paste garbage.
- When adding a mod downloaded from the site it should go always to the same category (chosen by user and not to a random category)

- Repeated names like this are not useful: "Singing Settler - Singing Settler". (The mod is mandatory thou :) )

^ all of this

and especially this: disable the full width colum auto size.

it is incredibly annoying, especially when most mods have such long file names.

[jackty89]

Keep on the work as a programmer myself I have to say good work so far NMM has improved quite a lot over the years ;-) will really look into the new NMM features. Might i bodly ask if the nexus will get an overhaul on the mod tracker, features like Mod Installed, ....

[idplayer]

In response to post #40015630. #40058265, #40085015, #40091830, #40102215, #40122155, #40132340, #40188950, #40205240, #40214800, #40222720, #40234620, #40260320, #40262620 are all replies on the same post.

stebo104 wrote: DO NOT USE NMM use instead MO (Mod Organizer). NMM puts all mods into your game data folders and over/re writes several files, which over time if you change mods alot will ruin your base game files (making game unplayable and having your redownload whole game). Now MO on the other hand puts all mods into a mod only folder within MO. When you run the game, it creates a virtual folder to run games (ie skyrim, fo4, fonv, ect) with the mods you have active. Not to mention when it comes to same files from different mods rewriting over and over again, MO uses a priority list (such as a texture file from mods A B C and D, if in order of A-1, C-2, B-3, D-4 it will use the texture file from mod D as 4 is higher then 1.) Now MO also has some advanced features, but you'd have to go to youtude and watch some videos on that.

djtalks wrote: Yeah, your full of crap... Clearly havnt used NMM of late. To be quite honest I liked it better when there wasn't a virtual folder. You MO fan boys kill me. Texture mods are just overwrites..
You basicly added yourself a whole new load order to fight with and think its cool.

If you don't want to use it don't.. But don't show up here acting like something is better that dose the same thing. Like I have said many times and will say again a lot of mods have issue being installed with MO I have 2 I made that I just click and hit yes to all in NMM and it works. MO users still have issues installing them.

HadToRegister wrote: Yea, and you can't even download and install MO.
It says "Install Failed" because of some "Connection Error"
Pretty hard to try a Mod Organizer you can't even install

PirateZ86 wrote: If you want to just hate MO for everything, go ahead but if you are want to really get a solution, they have a troubleshooting page on Github. They help people fix issues.

@djtalks : Having my data folder clean and choosing which mods overwrites which even after installing just by dragging it above or below, creating profiles is really good. I don't have a single mod issue with MO, please specify a few. I have nothing against NMM as it's good but MO is far superior atleast for me. A single person creating a tool for everyone without expecting anything in return must be appreciated not insulted because of your petty fanboy feelings. If you are paid to do that I'm happy for you since it atleast benefits you rather than just emotional talks.

TheLionHearted27 wrote: The reality is that people with very limited experience or knowledge of mods, can use NMM as a starting platform to jump into the modding scene. NMM is easy to install and to use. MO takes some knowledge and practice, its not outright easy to use, for lets say, a 10-12 year old kid who just wants to add a few mods to his/her game. Try explaining everything you just said to someone who has never modded a day in their life, they'll give you the "wtf" face...lol! NMM for a complete beginner is a simple tool to get started with, and panders to a wider range of users on both sides of the spectrum, that being authors and casual gamers. Smart business savvy people understand that to get more customers/clients, you need to expand your horizons and cater to all types of users. MO isn't as widely used, because it has a harder learning curve. It's great for everything it can do, and in your opinion does some things better than NMM, but this is circumstantial, due to your preference of features.

idplayer wrote: since oblivion i tested all mod organizers. i'm sure that experienced users currently would never go back to another mod organizing tool if the they understand the principles of mod organizer and are able to handle this platform properly.
some need the experience of 10 new full installations, some other need 100 or more to realize that mo is a gem. this is the only tool you never need to do a full installation again and to have full control over all mods.
nmm is absolutely ok for beginners and if using only a few known and hopefully bugfree mods. using more will surely end up in a full installation simply because the first bigger dirty mod will physically screw up all the other installed mods without a chance to reverse the mess. i fully agree with lionhearted and i recommend all who are happy with nmm to use it until they are tired doing full installations with a ton of mods

HadToRegister wrote: @PirateZ86

The only "Fanboys" here who are insulting anybody, is YOU and stebo14, as this entire thread is about a NEXUS MOD MANAGER FOCUS GROUP, NOT about Mod Organizer.

It was an insult to the NMM team, and an "emotional talk" on your, and stebo14's part to tell everybody NOT to use NMM in an NMM Focus Group thread.
Don't hijack the thread with advertisements about MO, I doubt people are going to github and telling people to use NMM. (And if they are, then shame on them too)

kkthebeast wrote: Yeah unfortunately for me I had nothing but trouble with MO, Instant CTD when trying to run FO4, LOOT instantly CTD, And F4SE would not load either. I like the interface though, Being able to see your Plugins list and installed Mods at the same time was nice.

Maybe we could see some of the interface tweaks in NMM. like being able to pin the Plugins and Mods to the same windows. That would be handy for manually sorting the load order. (I Can't really use loot, With VIS there are too many "unregistered" patches that LOOT doesn't know what to do with.)

idplayer wrote: @kkthebeast - your inability to handle mo successfully doesn't change the fact that the virtual file system and the pysical separation of the mods is superior in long term use. your described problems are as far as you described not mo related.
the physical separation of mod files should become a key feature in nmm. if so it would be a competitive tool for the use in a complex setup environment. in my opinion this is a key feature for long term stability and the prerequisite for 100% save rollback in case of a faulty mod or installtion error without the necessity to reinstall all the previously installed and affected mods. i'm sure many nmm users would be happy to see this feature included in nmm

underskyzx wrote: MO if you serious about modding, NMM if you just want to get things working.

rblood01 wrote: Disclaimer: I am a user that uses both Mod Organizer (I) and NMM (for Fallout 4)

Mod Organizer is great for a few games. It does have a higher learning curve. Even Gopher states that in one of his MO videos. Most starting users don't have the understanding of this and using MO is more difficult. NMM can be used for ALL GAMES hosted here or at least all I have seen. Providing one standard interface is very useful to keep your computer slim as opposed to having 2 or more managers.

Now for the statement that it will screw up your entire install and you have to download it again. That just isn't true. You just have to verify cache and Steam will update those files that are messed up. Often times only a minute or so on any decent internet connection. I never HAD TO download the entire game again or even uninstall and restore from backup the entire game.

True that MO has some useful tools like the "Hide" function and the conflicts easily found. However the future versions of NMM will have the Profile sharing (I believe that is the name) where entire profiles can be shared across the web and hosted here etc Ones setup can be easily setup by even the most novice user with a few clicks. This is a tools that as far as I can tell can't be added to MO at least not currently. Imagine someone like Gopher or GP creating a profile and uploading it for you to download. Create a video on the new profile to let you see what it is all about. Those experienced in creating and resolving conflicts and issues can create beautiful complex and unique game mod profiles far more complex than most basic users and beginners can have. Ease of installation also means that you can try one or two or three etc and always return to the your favorites be it yours or someone elses with a few click (because you can also backup your own profiles, how often has someone had to recreate a profile after some time because of a computer issue? )

I use both and view mod mangers as tools in my box to use where most appropriate for my current needs. Nothing more. One isn't better than the other. The only main job of a mod manager is to install and remove the mods selected properly. NMM does this now quite well unlike some versions in its past and it is getting better.

HadToRegister wrote: The only use I see for the shareable profiles is modders having their profiles posted, for their MOD that also includes the extra REQUIRED Mods from other mod makers in order for their mod to work.

Me, I have no use for that, what I DO have use for is not having to CTRL+ALT+DEL 5 times in a row because NMM decides it can't install/uninstall a mod.

As far as MO, who cares?
Again, this is an NMM TOPIC and THREAD.

Seriously, can we stop this sickening trend of Tribal Mentality?
It's bad enough Bethesda brought it to the foreground with the Console vs PC stuff, and now we're getting MO vs NMM in here.

Use what you want, and shut up about it

soulgamers wrote: HI HadToRegister
:armscrossed:
HeHe! your Right. well said. :woot:

:laugh: :wacko: :laugh::laugh:
:thumbsup:

PirateZ86 wrote: :wallbash: People saying others not to do while doing the same, real mature.

this is an nmm topic and hijacking is not ok for sure. but it is advisable and not forbidden to have also a look at and to mention features which seem to be essential or very useful and are already covered by other organizer tools. the success of nmm depends on the ability to compete. and what i see is that key features are still missing or seem to have lower priority than other (imho less important) features. Edited July 9, 2016 by idplayer

[Ianana]

In response to post #40189165. #40211675 is also a reply to the same post.

kkthebeast wrote: One small feature from MO I would like to see in NMM is the ability to see both your Plugins list and your mods at the same time. Going back and forth trying to adjust the load order while sorting by download date, vs installed date is a pain. Being able to "pin" the windows side by side like the download and installation window would be cool!

Another feature that would be amazing. would be the ability for NMM to remember the load order position of a mods files so that they could be reinserted into the same load order position when you update a mod instead of pushing it to the very bottom (which is a pain when you do something like Valdacil's Item sorting custom install + a slew of VIS patches for other mods, Currently when we update VIS we have to drag 10 esp files all the way back in the load order to get it back where it was.)

The logic behind this would be and manual update tagging system, where you could right click on an existing mod and select "Tag for update" then right click on the new version and select "Update with selected mod" it would then locate it current load order, remove the installed mod, install the new mod, and re position the new mods load order where the orginal mod was located.

That would be a pretty sweet addition, Make NMM stand out in the crowd and save a ton of time!

GingerRemedy wrote: You can actually see both plugins and your mods at the same time. you just have to drag the "plugins" tab and "mods" tab around and you can have both up at once. You can even go as far as making both tabs their own "mini" windows separate from rest of the interface.


And the "Tag for update" idea I do agree with. It would make fallout 4 modding much easier. Or at least an easier way to tell when a specific mod has been updated than the slightly annoying columns NMM currently has (probably only my problem since of my current set up)

What would work for seeing individual install files in a mod that is more complicated would be like in Wrye Bash installer tab. You can see and manipulate all the items in the install of mod or Anneal when you want to reinstall a mod that you have overwritten with another mods files. Also you can see conflicts and missing files. I would love to see that in NMM and the saves tab. Really loved Wrye for years. NMM would really be great with this.

[HadToRegister]

In response to post #40189165. #40211675, #40300925 are all replies on the same post.

kkthebeast wrote: One small feature from MO I would like to see in NMM is the ability to see both your Plugins list and your mods at the same time. Going back and forth trying to adjust the load order while sorting by download date, vs installed date is a pain. Being able to "pin" the windows side by side like the download and installation window would be cool!

Another feature that would be amazing. would be the ability for NMM to remember the load order position of a mods files so that they could be reinserted into the same load order position when you update a mod instead of pushing it to the very bottom (which is a pain when you do something like Valdacil's Item sorting custom install + a slew of VIS patches for other mods, Currently when we update VIS we have to drag 10 esp files all the way back in the load order to get it back where it was.)

The logic behind this would be and manual update tagging system, where you could right click on an existing mod and select "Tag for update" then right click on the new version and select "Update with selected mod" it would then locate it current load order, remove the installed mod, install the new mod, and re position the new mods load order where the orginal mod was located.

That would be a pretty sweet addition, Make NMM stand out in the crowd and save a ton of time!

GingerRemedy wrote: You can actually see both plugins and your mods at the same time. you just have to drag the "plugins" tab and "mods" tab around and you can have both up at once. You can even go as far as making both tabs their own "mini" windows separate from rest of the interface.


And the "Tag for update" idea I do agree with. It would make fallout 4 modding much easier. Or at least an easier way to tell when a specific mod has been updated than the slightly annoying columns NMM currently has (probably only my problem since of my current set up)

Ianana wrote: What would work for seeing individual install files in a mod that is more complicated would be like in Wrye Bash installer tab. You can see and manipulate all the items in the install of mod or Anneal when you want to reinstall a mod that you have overwritten with another mods files. Also you can see conflicts and missing files. I would love to see that in NMM and the saves tab. Really loved Wrye for years. NMM would really be great with this.

GingerRemedy
You can actually see both plugins and your mods at the same time. you just have to drag the "plugins" tab and "mods" tab around and you can have both up at once. You can even go as far as making both tabs their own "mini" windows separate from rest of the interface.

Thanks for that, I decided to experiment and I FINALLY figured out what those arrowed boxes were in the interface screen while your dragging the windows around are for.
Now I've got a nice split-screen between my plugins and mods.

Thanks, and have a kudos

[Siracuza]

In response to post #39899460.

Sean39 wrote: I haven't used NMM in a while, so I just want to find out a bit of info instead of jumping blindly into using it once again.

How does NMM in its upcoming state compare with Mod Organizer 2?

Can the actual Fallout 4 Data folder be avoided for mod usage?
Can a mod (not a plugin) be rearranged to change how things are overwritten?
The inability to change how things are overwritten and needing to fully reinstall a mod just to do that in NMM was a huge con back from when I used it last.
Is there something similar to MO's Overwrite folder? The Overwrite folder is is very useful for merged plugins and works very nicely with xEdit.

Things like that are what made me switch over to MO a while ago, so I just want to know how NMM has evolved in that time since and for what would be planned for its future.

Exact same story and questions from me. It worked fine to start with < 50 mods, but once I started getting addicted to Nexus and 200+ mods, I had to just say screw it and reinstall everything into MO due to many issues. If something crashes now I just turn off a few mods to find what it is without having to worry about what order they overwrite each other in, or uninstalled mods leaving random files behind.

[TheInquisitor]

First bit of feedback: "This enables everyone to share their modded experiences easier than ever"

 

*More easily than ever

 

;)

 

Jokes aside, though, the new features of NMM are fantastic and I'm looking forward to seeing where it progresses from here.