I am terribly disappointed in Bethesda

[sajuukkhar9000]

I use the TAB to close the conversation.

 

I just told brynolf no, i mean, it is one of the dialog options.

[BS375]

I enjoy reading people getting all flame-y in regards to the differing opinions about this game. Oddly enough, not to dissimilar from current American political forums that I have read.

 

Anyway, I'm inclined to agree with most of what I've read here. The game is far to static. I got promoted to Imperial Legate. Now since I'm entirely sure of the rank structure of the Imperial Army, I'm going to roll with the Roman equivalent, which was to say, a general officer. So, as a general officer, if I choose to Dragon Shout around town, I don't expect a common soldier to come over and tell me that i can do it like I'm part of the riff raff. In fact, the ONLY soldiers that seemed to notice my rank were the ones in Imperial Camps that all disappeared after I ended the civil war.

 

Yup. Oh, and as an Imperial Legate I killed the Emperor. That in and of itself should have started another civil war, however that would be a touch too epic probably.

 

I think that if Bethesda is unwilling, in a game like this, to factor in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th order of effects for quests, they shouldn't include the quest in the game. Quality, in an RPG, beats quantity every time.

 

As I've said before, I can't wait for Obsidian to start work on Skyrim: New Vegas. They'll get it right.

 

Yes that sounds nice. I hope it start soon.

 

But the quest way is really linenar and only for the guards ( since tes3 i think) you are glas ther nowing thery thing.

I offen have the felling that i buy a beta status game. Hey i can marry but i can´t give my wife a present or Money? only over konsole???? Hey i can make head cut, sucking blood, eat (npc) Humans (ork and elven to.). But no sex only drugs? bad bad bad.

 

((( i´am lucky to be here with you as a user of the mods. THX for you work ))))

 

So many think´s for or from a quest a borring .... Civil war the Ugly quest line...Kill all in the castell.... gähhnn... First quest i make. no damm peace trash talk at Greybear...

But if i defending wihterun agains Stormcloaks there run to the gate no one attacks me... damm ... i hate this part of the quest.

Companions quest werewolf to early i make 1 or 2 quest for them and step to higher ranks??? After the Wutra (Ysgramors Axe) pices quest.

The TG quest i dont try it after 5 times, of no armor geting but i am the boss. or the rest of them dont talk to me. yeah bug´s guild no thives.

 

So sandbox game yes it is but i want more, More backfeet to my action no dubbel talking s.... to hear every time.

I think only 3 questgiver come to you and hade quest (bryn... TG Rifton as exsample)

the rest of the quest you got to get it find it,. and if you get a quest from a Barkeeper LOL 100 gold or the vendors 500 gold but a house cost 5000 gold (the cheapes to buy)

 

The game isn´t round, 120 day´s more would make a different but loock around the most a bringing beta games to sell ( i dont want to name them no promo for them)

 

Yes I Hate and Love the game. But there can do so more with the game, but why dont where do it?

[BS375]

The actual companions aren't even the worst. Wait till you get the Daedric dog... :wallbash:

Been there, done that hehe...

 

At first I thought; aah cool doggie... Then it started pushing me around (literally) and I got really enraged with that.

 

So I rushed to complete that particular quest and wadda ya know... There is a god. Its a Daedric and he asked me to kill off doggie! Bless him!:woot:

 

 

Face the dog look at him. works only short but i´t works. test it

[Relativelybest]

I just told brynolf no, i mean, it is one of the dialog options.

 

Problem is, you get only two options:

 

-Tell Brynjolf to go hang himself.

-Ask why exactly he wants to frame Madesi.

 

If you pick the second one, you automatically accept the quest, boom like that, no further confirmation required. So, if it's your first time playing and you are even the slightest bit curious about why you are asked to send an innocent jeweller to jail, you get instantly railroaded into the Thieves Guild quest.

 

The lighthouse quest in Solitude is pretty much the same thing. Jaree-Ra doesn't actually explain what the plan is until after you've accepted the quest. Worse, when offering it he actually makes it sound as if he's less of a thief and more of a "treasure hunter," and he talks about riches "hidden underground." It seriously sounds like he's proposing a dungeon crawl.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Relativelybest

[sajuukkhar9000]

Problem is, you get only two options:

 

-Tell Brynjolf to go hang himself.

-Ask why exactly he wants to frame Madesi.

 

If you pick the second one, you automatically accept the quest, boom like that, no further confirmation required. So, if it's your first time playing and you are even the slightest bit curious about why you are asked to send an innocent jeweller to jail, you get instantly railroaded into the Thieves Guild quest.

 

The lighthouse quest in Solitude is pretty much the same thing. Jaree-Ra doesn't actually explain what the plan is until after you've accepted the quest. Worse, when offering it he actually makes it sound as if he's less of a thief and more of a "treasure hunter," and he talks about riches "hidden underground." It seriously sounds like he's proposing a dungeon crawl.

You do not accept a quest until you choose to partake in the events of it. Both options led to you being able to deny the quest.

 

A quest being in your journal does not mean you accept it, a journal is a place were you write down things you hear on your adventures, rumors of what is here or there, what people have asked you to do but not necessarily will do, and no matter if you choose to do them or not, it makes sense you would keep a note of it in your journal.

Edited June 15, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[Relativelybest]

You do not accept a quest until you choose to partake in the events of it. Both options led to you being able to deny the quest.

 

No, you get the option to ignore the quest. You also get the option to fail the quest. Neither of those is the same thing as rejecting it.

 

After the quest title appear over your head, you literally cannot tell Brynjof: "Actually, no, I'm not cool with this. Get someone else to do it." If you ask him why he wants to frame Madesi, he will henceforth assume you are his partner in crime and you will be unable to talk to him again without him wanting to continue the quest.

 

I learned that the hard way when, after ignoring him for like a week in real time, I had to talk to him about finding Esbern as part of the main storyline only to discover that the man was still waiting for me to complete the damn thief quest and refused to discuss any other matter until I did so.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Relativelybest

[sajuukkhar9000]

I learned that the hard way when, after ignoring him for like a week in real time, I had to talk to him about finding Esbern as part of the main storyline only to discover that the man was still waiting for me to complete the damn thief quest and refused to discuss any other matter until I did so.

Except you dont have to talk to him for the quest at all, if you LISTEN to Delphine, and I think Gissur in the Diplomatic Immunity quest also, both say Esbern is in the Ratway. If you had used to clues given to you beforehand Brynolf is entirely unneeded.

 

You CHOSE to talk to him, no one made you, the game didn't force you, and the game told you beforehand enough about where you needed to go that Brynolf, and his quest, were 100% skippable.

 

If you took the initiative, and payed attention to what you were told, you wouldn't have had to do anything for him.

Edited June 15, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[Cynster]

Well good thing there are mods then :) someone could easily fix a lot of the problems you are mentioning.

 

Also - in real life you don't always have the option to take a different path. In a way, its almost realistic to be limited in what you can do.

[Relativelybest]

I learned that the hard way when, after ignoring him for like a week in real time, I had to talk to him about finding Esbern as part of the main storyline only to discover that the man was still waiting for me to complete the damn thief quest and refused to discuss any other matter until I did so.

Except you dont have to talk to him for the quest at all, if you LISTEN to Delphine, and I think Gissur in the Diplomatic Immunity quest also, both say Esbern is in the Ratway. If you had used to clues given to you beforehand Brynolf is entirely unneeded.

 

You CHOSE to talk to him, no one made you, the game didn't force you, and the game told you beforehand enough about where you needed to go that Brynolf, and his quest, were 100% skippable.

 

If you took the initiative, and payed attention to what you were told, you wouldn't have had to do anything for him.

 

You are completely missing the point. Of course I didn't need his help to find Esbern. I just used that as an example.

 

The point is that Brynjolf was expecting me to help him frame Madesi even though I never once said: "Yes, I will help you with that." Because you are never given that option, not in anything close to clear wording.

 

It's not just the journal making a note of a possible quest. I would be totally okay with this if the journal just read: "This annoying guy insulted me and then asked me to commit a crime for him. I haven't decided if I want to do it yet."

 

But no. The game literally assumes that you have commited yourself to do a quest just because you happen to stumble across it. I just wanted to know what Brynjolf's beef with that nice argonian was; that is in no way an agreement.

 

Also - in real life you don't always have the option to take a different path. In a way, its almost realistic to be limited in what you can do.

 

Sure, but you know what else is part of real life? Changing your mind about stuff.

 

Even if I told Brynjolf that I was totally okay with his proposal (which, I keep stressing, was never an option) I should still be able to walk up to him later and say: "You know what? Never mind."

 

I mean, it's not like all the quests in Skyrim railroads you like that. You agree to help those redguards find the fugitive woman but you don't have to turn her in if you don't feel like it. Mehrunes Dagon tells you to murder a dude in cold blood, but you get the option to say no thanks. Even the goddamned civil war storyline gives you a shot at defecting to the other side at one point. even though it doesn't exactly spell it out.

 

So why can't I ask Brynjolf why Madesi needs to go to jail and still tell him to get lost?

Edited June 15, 2012 by Relativelybest

[sajuukkhar9000]

You are completely missing the point. Of course I didn't need his help to find Esbern. I just used that as an example.

 

The point is that Brynjolf was expecting me to help him frame Madesi even though I never once said: "Yes, I will help you with that." Because you are never given that option, not in anything close to clear wording.

 

It's not just the journal making a note of a possible quest. I would be totally okay with this if the journal just read: "This annoying guy insulted me and then asked me to commit a crime for him. I haven't decided if I want to do it yet."

 

But no. The game literally assumes that you have commited yourself to do a quest just because you happen to stumble across it. I just wanted to know what Brynjolf's beef with that nice argonian was; that is in no way an agreement.

If you had no plans on agreeing to it I dont see why you be asking why Brynolf wants this to happen.

 

asking why do you want me to do this usually means "im thinking about about doing it" with a heavy leans towards yes rather then no.

Edited June 15, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000