I'm a black ex-cop, and this is the real truth about race and policing

[sunshinenbrick]

The 'blame' must be shared though, as it's clear that it is also somewhat convenient to maintain things as they are because many people also benefit from the setup. Directly or indirectly. It's the same everywhere.

[HeyYou]

Blame is pointless. The situation is as it is. Doesn't really matter anymore how we got here.

 

I am real curious who is 'benefiting' from the current state of affairs......

[sunshinenbrick]

People like to see crime being fought but they also will tend to prefer the persecution of others over being targeted themselves... But yeah a lot of it is subtle, indirect, and all above board - which brings us back to the institutional side of it.

[kvnchrist]

The scars of slavery run forever deep into American culture and history. Europe and Africa as well for that matter, and institutionalised racism towards 'non-white communities' is still rampant in these places too. It's all perfectly 'legal', subtle and passive... but that is what is meant by 'institutionalised' - it is difficult to pin down.

 

Of course over many many decades the whole thing has transformed and taken on a life of its own and the statistics and data all point to convenient truths... again this is what is meant by it being 'institutionalised' - it is, perhaps even unintentionally, rigged so that the sheer probability makes it privileged for some and more difficult for others. This isn't unique to race, but is certainly affected by it.

 

Going in all guns blazing, as has been discussed, would not solve the issue because it would create a whole new, even bigger, one. Just look at the middle east... it's a pretty poignant parallel in some ways - you have something we want, manpower/resources/money, we don't want to share or give up our 'entitlements', and so by hook or by crook we are going to get it. Some of the biggest and most prolific 'thugs' in our world are also among the most prosperous and powerful (and probably not African American...). Perhaps we all know this and know how helpless it is so therefore target the people around us who we can. It's like the psychology thought experiment where the father/mother hits the older child who hits the younger child, who kicks the cat. It's also actually a bit like the end of The Beach where they know if they pull the trigger they have failed and the whole dream is over.

 

... So is there any solution? I think their is, but governments and corporations are going to have to come clean about a lot of stuff and take responsibility for creating a more just and equal society. Stop lying to people and give them honest truths so that more co-operative and common objectives and economies can be created. Truly living 'within our means' and in respect of other beings and the planet.

 

Pfft... but that all likely sounds like just too much hard work for most ordinary folk, and those who have already 'inherited the earth' (and probably anything else we colonise should we get the chance) are not going to give up their 'god-like' status any time soon without species threatening levels of war. A world-wide uprising would have unpredictable results too so is perhaps not even worth the risk.

 

I do maintain some faith though, however difficult and bleak it seems a lot of the time. I believe that slowly (and accepting the inevitability of violence) we will make progress to bring people and communities together while maintaining the wonderful variety and flavours of culture which make us different and creative. For example, I think that in the case of communities run by gangs (which by the way happen within ALL societies and may not have the traditional 'Police Camera Action' style stereotypes - take the sorority college institutions or yeah.. the police, which operate much like gangs), a lot could be done to actually improve these people's lives and create jobs, a role within society, and the economy as a whole. They probably 'do' such things already, although probably half-hearted and semi tongue-in-cheek. It is slow and it is not going to be easy for either side, but I do think it is this... or bust.

 

The last and only other 'option', is an international (world) war directed by the government in which people have to overcome their differences... or lose. However, coupling what I said earlier about those whom already 'own' us, with the fact that any large altercation with the USA would bring us all to the brink, it will certainly not be these communities or any other of the majority of communities we supposedly care so much about that will gain anything from such events - more likely they will be largely wiped out to be replaced with a new wave of indoctrinated generations that are ever more out of touch with who they are or where they come from.

I don't understand why so many believe that ist the governments or the bussiness community that needs to cultivate people to be what they, themselves could be on their own.

 

I have a daughter and because she embrases the ideals she does, she removes herself from any chance of prosperty because she thinks she is entitled to get what she needs from the government and anyone else she can manipulate into paying here way. I'm not saying anyone else is like that, but I am saying that attitude and drive will take a person farther than waiting for the government to hand you something. Outside the voting booth all we are are iritants to the government.

[kvnchrist]

People like to see crime being fought but they also will tend to prefer the persecution of others over being targeted themselves... But yeah a lot of it is subtle, indirect, and all above board - which brings us back to the institutional side of it.

All this talk about instituionalized stuff is crap. People are being treated the way they are because those around them let it be so.

 

People are too selfcentered, too matterialistic and too focused on their own instant gratification to worry about others. They will rant and rave about all the stuff they don't like over these forums, but to get out and expend some personal effort and actually to make this world a better place, that seems to be beyond most people. How about heading up to Habitate for Humanity or the local goodwill. Volenteer for soup kitchens or take a few hours to go into nursing homes and talk with theose elderly people who have no one else.

 

But, OH HECK NO. I got to watch The Simpsons on TV. Oh no, I got to get to level 9 on one of my favorite video games, and then I'll go rant some more and blame some other faceless entity for the problems in the world.

 

The problems in this world is because the world is cool with them. If people want to make change, they do that with their feet, not with their fingers on a keyboard.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

The scars of slavery run forever deep into American culture and history. Europe and Africa as well for that matter, and institutionalised racism towards 'non-white communities' is still rampant in these places too. It's all perfectly 'legal', subtle and passive... but that is what is meant by 'institutionalised' - it is difficult to pin down.

ÃÂ

Of course over many many decades the whole thing has transformed and taken on a life of its own and the statistics and data all point to convenient truths... again this is what is meant by it being 'institutionalised' - it is, perhaps even unintentionally, rigged so that the sheer probability makes it privileged for some and more difficult for others. This isn't unique to race, but is certainly affected by it.

ÃÂ

Going in all guns blazing, as has been discussed, would not solve the issue because it would create a whole new, even bigger, one. Just look at the middle east... it's a pretty poignant parallel in some ways - you have something we want, manpower/resources/money, we don't want to share or give up our 'entitlements', and so by hook or by crook we are going to get it. Some of the biggest and most prolific 'thugs' in our world are also among the most prosperous and powerful (and probably not African American...). Perhaps we all know this and know how helpless it is so therefore target the people around us who we can. It's like the psychology thought experiment where the father/mother hits the older child who hits the younger child, who kicks the cat. It's also actually a bit like the end of The Beach where they know if they pull the trigger they have failed and the whole dream is over.

ÃÂ

... So is there any solution? I think their is, but governments and corporations are going to have to come clean about a lot of stuff and take responsibility for creating a more just and equal society. Stop lying to people and give them honest truths so that more co-operative and common objectives and economies can be created. Truly living 'within our means' and in respect of other beings and the planet.

ÃÂ

Pfft... but that all likely sounds like just too much hard work for most ordinary folk, and those who have already 'inherited the earth' (and probably anything else we colonise should we get the chance) are not going to give up their 'god-like' status any time soon without species threatening levels of war. A world-wide uprising would have unpredictable results too so is perhaps not even worth the risk.

ÃÂ

I do maintain some faith though, however difficult and bleak it seems a lot of the time. I believe that slowly (and accepting the inevitability of violence) we will make progress to bring people and communities together while maintaining the wonderful variety and flavours of culture which make us different and creative. For example, I think that in the case of communities run by gangs (which by the way happen within ALL societies and may not have the traditional 'Police Camera Action' style stereotypes - take the sorority college institutions or yeah.. the police, which operate much like gangs), a lot could be done to actually improve these people's lives and create jobs, a role within society, and the economy as a whole. They probably 'do' such things already, although probably half-hearted and semi tongue-in-cheek. It is slow and it is not going to be easy for either side, but I do think it is this... or bust.

ÃÂ

The last and only other 'option', is an international (world) war directed by the government in which people have to overcome their differences... or lose. However, coupling what I said earlier about those whom already 'own' us, with the fact that any large altercation with the USA would bring us all to the brink, it will certainly not be these communities or any other of the majority of communities we supposedly care so much about that will gain anything from such events - more likely they will be largely wiped out to be replaced with a new wave of indoctrinated generations that are ever more out of touch with who they are or where they come from.

 

I don't understand why so many believe that ist the governments or the bussiness community that needs to cultivate people to be what they, themselves could be on their own.

ÃÂ

I have a daughter and because she embrases the ideals she does, she removes herself from any chance of prosperty because she thinks she is entitledÃÂ to get what she needs from the government and anyone else she can manipulate into paying here way.ÃÂ I'm not saying anyone else is like that, but I am saying that attitude and drive will take a person farther than waiting for the government to hand you something. Outside the voting booth all we are are iritants to the government.

I don't want to take any achievements away from anyone (and there are always exceptions), but even if you 'make it on your own' you are still very much indirectly affected by the environment and rules of the place where you are born/grow up. Of course it is more equal now than it has been in recent history (of the West at least), but it is undeniable that the doors that are open for some, are not open for others. Even if 'on paper' isn't supposed to, it does in reality. Hence our discussion here.

 

I would also imagine that the government is the last people such communities want help from, because they are likely where they are because of the institutional bias and corruption in government. All this has of course exploded onto the wider public too as we can see in society these days.

 

There is also the advantage of just keeping the status quo. Nobody wants to rock the boat or try anything new or different, because then THEIR neck is on the line.

 

As for your second post, I'd say institutionalism is relative and depends which end of the stick you end on how visible it is. Otherwise I agree with the rest, but would add that such is true for ALL 'groups' and 'communities'.

[HeyYou]

I don't have any real desire to help anyone that isn't interested in helping themselves first. Not to mention, that a fair few of those folks that some would like me to 'help', are far more likely to rob me at gunpoint, than accept any kind of help from me.

 

No. The black community needs to take some responsibility for their current condition, and start taking steps to change it. Unfortunately, their way of life has become institutionalized, and no one is really interested in change. It seems to be much more popular to go out, protest, burn, loot, pillage THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD, when some criminal is killed by cops, than it is to actually attempt to make the situation better. The 'demands' of the BLM group make that eminently clear.

[sunshinenbrick]

The 'white community' needs to do the same. It's different, but two sides of the same coin. It's also not easy and those above us who benefit most like to keep it that way, so yes it's slow too. However we must also not forget to hold ourselves and those most 'like' us or closest to us, under the same scrutiny we hold those that we can easily distance ourselves from. The media can make all this exponentially more difficult though, I agree. But we must try so as to preserve that which has been fought for, or it's a 'race' to the bottom where we will quickly see how near the bottom we already are.

[HeyYou]

The 'white community' needs to do the same. It's different, but two sides of the same coin. It's also not easy and those above us who benefit most like to keep it that way, so yes it's slow too. However we must also not forget to hold ourselves and those most 'like' us or closest to us, under the same scrutiny we hold those that we can easily distance ourselves from. The media can make all this exponentially more difficult though, I agree. But we must try so as to preserve that which has been fought for, or it's a 'race' to the bottom where we will quickly see how near the bottom we already are.

How so?

 

I don't see the white community getting all up in arms when a white thug is killed by cops.

I don't see the white community rioting in the streets, dragging black folks out of their cars, and beating them to death.

I don't see the white community burning down businesses in their own neighborhoods.

I don't see "White Lives Matter" protesting every time a white thug is killed.

 

Sorry, I don't see any parallels there.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

The 'white community' needs to do the same. It's different, but two sides of the same coin. It's also not easy and those above us who benefit most like to keep it that way, so yes it's slow too. However we must also not forget to hold ourselves and those most 'like' us or closest to us, under the same scrutiny we hold those that we can easily distance ourselves from. The media can make all this exponentially more difficult though, I agree. But we must try so as to preserve that which has been fought for, or it's a 'race' to the bottom where we will quickly see how near the bottom we already are.

 

How so?

 

I don't see the white community getting all up in arms when a white thug is killed by cops.

I don't see the white community rioting in the streets, dragging black folks out of their cars, and beating them to death.

I don't see the white community burning down businesses in their own neighborhoods.

I don't see "White Lives Matter" protesting every time a white thug is killed.

 

Sorry, I don't see any parallels there.

It is exactly because you DON'T see these things. THAT'S the point.