I'm a black ex-cop, and this is the real truth about race and policing

[HeyYou]

 

 

The 'white community' needs to do the same. It's different, but two sides of the same coin. It's also not easy and those above us who benefit most like to keep it that way, so yes it's slow too. However we must also not forget to hold ourselves and those most 'like' us or closest to us, under the same scrutiny we hold those that we can easily distance ourselves from. The media can make all this exponentially more difficult though, I agree. But we must try so as to preserve that which has been fought for, or it's a 'race' to the bottom where we will quickly see how near the bottom we already are.

How so?

 

I don't see the white community getting all up in arms when a white thug is killed by cops.

I don't see the white community rioting in the streets, dragging black folks out of their cars, and beating them to death.

I don't see the white community burning down businesses in their own neighborhoods.

I don't see "White Lives Matter" protesting every time a white thug is killed.

 

Sorry, I don't see any parallels there.

It is exactly because you DON'T see these things. THAT'S the point.

 

That makes zero sense to me. We have one community that supports the thugs, and trashes their own neighborhood when one dies. We have another community that pretty much doesn't bat an eye when one of their thugs is killed. Seems to me, that would indicate an issue with the first examples community, not the second one......

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

The 'white community' needs to do the same. It's different, but two sides of the same coin. It's also not easy and those above us who benefit most like to keep it that way, so yes it's slow too. However we must also not forget to hold ourselves and those most 'like' us or closest to us, under the same scrutiny we hold those that we can easily distance ourselves from. The media can make all this exponentially more difficult though, I agree. But we must try so as to preserve that which has been fought for, or it's a 'race' to the bottom where we will quickly see how near the bottom we already are.

How so?

 

I don't see the white community getting all up in arms when a white thug is killed by cops.

I don't see the white community rioting in the streets, dragging black folks out of their cars, and beating them to death.

I don't see the white community burning down businesses in their own neighborhoods.

I don't see "White Lives Matter" protesting every time a white thug is killed.

 

Sorry, I don't see any parallels there.

It is exactly because you DON'T see these things. THAT'S the point.

 

That makes zero sense to me. We have one community that supports the thugs, and trashes their own neighborhood when one dies. We have another community that pretty much doesn't bat an eye when one of their thugs is killed. Seems to me, that would indicate an issue with the first examples community, not the second one......

 

That's because you are not an ideologue.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

 

 

The 'white community' needs to do the same. It's different, but two sides of the same coin. It's also not easy and those above us who benefit most like to keep it that way, so yes it's slow too. However we must also not forget to hold ourselves and those most 'like' us or closest to us, under the same scrutiny we hold those that we can easily distance ourselves from. The media can make all this exponentially more difficult though, I agree. But we must try so as to preserve that which has been fought for, or it's a 'race' to the bottom where we will quickly see how near the bottom we already are.

How so?

 

I don't see the white community getting all up in arms when a white thug is killed by cops.

I don't see the white community rioting in the streets, dragging black folks out of their cars, and beating them to death.

I don't see the white community burning down businesses in their own neighborhoods.

I don't see "White Lives Matter" protesting every time a white thug is killed.

 

Sorry, I don't see any parallels there.

It is exactly because you DON'T see these things. THAT'S the point.

 

That makes zero sense to me. We have one community that supports the thugs, and trashes their own neighborhood when one dies. We have another community that pretty much doesn't bat an eye when one of their thugs is killed. Seems to me, that would indicate an issue with the first examples community, not the second one......

 

That's because you are not an ideologue.

 

 

If that's supposedly the case then why start the discussion?? Appears that any reasoning contrary to the above consensus has no validity (?)

 

The reason for the 'differences' between communities, as I have and others have said repeatedly, is because the 'nuture' side of things has gone horribly wrong. This is not always an excuse, BUT it is a reason, and the 'white community' has to also step up to the plate and realise its role in the course of things (not just try put band-aids on a gaping wound). Some people do, this is true for both 'sides', but the many just see it as a 'racial' issue while those who are sceptical find it very difficult to challenge ideas and the system because they will likely end up victims themselves.

 

I'll agree that the 'black community' could do with more positive role models so as to break up the monotony, but we all know this is also a rigged game. Institutional racism runs very deep and the media is not immune. For example, a lot of crime isn't reported or escalated the same way other crime is, if they wanted a slightly different twist they need not look far, but of course there is also a lot of money and power that gets in the way. The 'white community' benefits a great deal from holding other communities under a microscope so as to pass the buck, this is pretty obvious, perhaps uncomfortable to realise and 'support' but true all the same. Try going against the grain and you'll quickly encounter the blunt end of the law yourself, so yes anything other than the 'group think' is not easy to do. Again certain elements of this can be applied to both 'sides' and this is why it is such a difficult problem to solve, so much rough water has gone under the bridge that it makes them ever more difficult to cross.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

 

 

The 'white community' needs to do the same. It's different, but two sides of the same coin. It's also not easy and those above us who benefit most like to keep it that way, so yes it's slow too. However we must also not forget to hold ourselves and those most 'like' us or closest to us, under the same scrutiny we hold those that we can easily distance ourselves from. The media can make all this exponentially more difficult though, I agree. But we must try so as to preserve that which has been fought for, or it's a 'race' to the bottom where we will quickly see how near the bottom we already are.

How so?

 

I don't see the white community getting all up in arms when a white thug is killed by cops.

I don't see the white community rioting in the streets, dragging black folks out of their cars, and beating them to death.

I don't see the white community burning down businesses in their own neighborhoods.

I don't see "White Lives Matter" protesting every time a white thug is killed.

 

Sorry, I don't see any parallels there.

It is exactly because you DON'T see these things. THAT'S the point.

 

That makes zero sense to me. We have one community that supports the thugs, and trashes their own neighborhood when one dies. We have another community that pretty much doesn't bat an eye when one of their thugs is killed. Seems to me, that would indicate an issue with the first examples community, not the second one......

 

That's because you are not an ideologue.

 

 

If that's supposedly the case then why start the discussion?? Appears that any reasoning contrary to what yourself and HeyYou are saying has no validity (?)

 

The reason for the 'differences' between communities, as I have and others have said repeatedly, is because the 'nuture' side of things has gone horribly wrong. This is not always an excuse, BUT it is a reason, and the 'white community' has to also step up to the plate and realise its role in the course of things (not just try put band-aids on a gaping wound). Some people do, this is true for both 'sides', but the many just see it as a 'racial' issue while those who are sceptical find it very difficult to challenge ideas and the system because they will likely end up victims themselves.

 

I'll agree that the 'black community' could do with more positive role models so as to break up the monotony, but we all know this is also a rigged game. Institutional racism runs very deep and the media is not immune. For example, a lot of crime isn't reported or escalated the same way other crime is, if they wanted a slightly different twist they need not look far, but of course there is also a lot of money and power that gets in the way. The 'white community' benefits a great deal from holding other communities under a microscope so as to pass the buck, this is pretty obvious, perhaps uncomfortable to realise and 'support' but true all the same. Try going against the grain and you'll quickly encounter the blunt end of the law yourself, so yes anything other than the 'group think' is not easy to do. Again certain elements of this can be applied to both 'sides' and this is why it is such a difficult problem to solve, so much rough water has gone under the bridge that it makes them ever more difficult to cross.

 

This was not about the differences in anything. This was about attitudes, ideals and choices. It's not about social engineering which has had about remote control social engineering that lays the blame for these government programs not working. on some vague term like institutionalized racism. It's about society not giving a crap and people doing the least little bit to get by. This is not a community effort here, because the larger the group being looked at the easier it is to loose individual responsibilities. Change starts with the individual. It has too beause no matter where a person starts out, if there is no drive, then that is where they will stay.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 'white community' needs to do the same. It's different, but two sides of the same coin. It's also not easy and those above us who benefit most like to keep it that way, so yes it's slow too. However we must also not forget to hold ourselves and those most 'like' us or closest to us, under the same scrutiny we hold those that we can easily distance ourselves from. The media can make all this exponentially more difficult though, I agree. But we must try so as to preserve that which has been fought for, or it's a 'race' to the bottom where we will quickly see how near the bottom we already are.

How so?

 

I don't see the white community getting all up in arms when a white thug is killed by cops.

I don't see the white community rioting in the streets, dragging black folks out of their cars, and beating them to death.

I don't see the white community burning down businesses in their own neighborhoods.

I don't see "White Lives Matter" protesting every time a white thug is killed.

 

Sorry, I don't see any parallels there.

It is exactly because you DON'T see these things. THAT'S the point.

 

That makes zero sense to me. We have one community that supports the thugs, and trashes their own neighborhood when one dies. We have another community that pretty much doesn't bat an eye when one of their thugs is killed. Seems to me, that would indicate an issue with the first examples community, not the second one......

 

That's because you are not an ideologue.

 

 

If that's supposedly the case then why start the discussion?? Appears that any reasoning contrary to what yourself and HeyYou are saying has no validity (?)

 

The reason for the 'differences' between communities, as I have and others have said repeatedly, is because the 'nuture' side of things has gone horribly wrong. This is not always an excuse, BUT it is a reason, and the 'white community' has to also step up to the plate and realise its role in the course of things (not just try put band-aids on a gaping wound). Some people do, this is true for both 'sides', but the many just see it as a 'racial' issue while those who are sceptical find it very difficult to challenge ideas and the system because they will likely end up victims themselves.

 

I'll agree that the 'black community' could do with more positive role models so as to break up the monotony, but we all know this is also a rigged game. Institutional racism runs very deep and the media is not immune. For example, a lot of crime isn't reported or escalated the same way other crime is, if they wanted a slightly different twist they need not look far, but of course there is also a lot of money and power that gets in the way. The 'white community' benefits a great deal from holding other communities under a microscope so as to pass the buck, this is pretty obvious, perhaps uncomfortable to realise and 'support' but true all the same. Try going against the grain and you'll quickly encounter the blunt end of the law yourself, so yes anything other than the 'group think' is not easy to do. Again certain elements of this can be applied to both 'sides' and this is why it is such a difficult problem to solve, so much rough water has gone under the bridge that it makes them ever more difficult to cross.

 

This was not about the differences in anything. This was about attitudes, ideals and choices. It's not about social engineering which has had about remote control social engineering that lays the blame for these government programs not working. on some vague term like institutionalized racism. It's about society not giving a crap and people doing the least little bit to get by. This is not a community effort here, because the larger the group being looked at the easier it is to loose individual responsibilities. Change starts with the individual. It has too beause no matter where a person starts out, if there is no drive, then that is where they will stay.

 

 

As I have said, these things are slow. Institutional is not 'vague' simply because you don't want to or can't see it. Besides, it IS in a way 'vague' - that is the whole point to it, as I have tried to explain. It is obvious that if a group feel targeted then the individual would try stand up for themselves and the group... such is the case in every community everywhere. Even when looking at individuals, the environment they have to deal with has to be considered. For every majority of people that get sucked up into 'the system' there may be a few who make a small change or maybe even a big difference. However, these are not the stories or scenes plastered across our news channels and 'entertainment' prime time - not only is it against many interests, but people also have an unfortunate fascination with the misery and misfortune of others.

 

Also, to 'escape' such downward spirals it means that one has to accept difficult truths, and truths that are not always a case of "oh, it's all me and 'my community's' fault". The realities of African American history are still prevalent as it was not really that long ago, and unfortunately things the world over have not progressed as much as many would like to believe. I share the frustration but it is too simple and unfair to solely blame it on the 'black community' - and also does a disservice to all the progress that HAS been made.

 

You're right in that it takes a community effort, but this is the case for all communities so as to find common ground, compromise and mutual understanding and benefit. I do sometimes despair how hypocritical the 'white community' is and how quick it is to find fault and blame with every other community/race/creed but their own (although, see group mentality above). Even when it tries to, it seems to think a piece of paper will do the job while minds and ideas remain unchanged. Such things could be said for any other community for that matter, but so long as the 'white community' keeps seeing itself as special and 'better' then no one is going to listen to them because it's not.

[HeyYou]

Assigning blame solves nothing, it just perpetuates the problem. Instead of focusing on whose fault it is, the black community should be looking for solutions. A better way of doing things. Blaming 'whitey' for all their problems is both inaccurate, and unproductive. Of course, one of the things that have been lost in this country, and NOT just by the black community, is personal responsibility. No one is responsible for their own actions. It is always someone elses fault. I am fed up with the excuses for poor behavior, and blaming everyone else for problems that most of those folks have brought upon themselves. It doesn't matter what ANYONE outside the community does, it won't improve a damn thing within the community. The community itself MUST stand up, take responsibility, and then take steps to improve itself. No outside effort, especially by 'whitey', will have any good effect at all, if it is forced upon them from outside. Change comes from within, and unless/until these communities step up to the plate, nothing will change. Which is EXACTLY what I expect to happen. Nothing.

[sunshinenbrick]

Assigning blame solves nothing, it just perpetuates the problem. Instead of focusing on whose fault it is, the black community should be looking for solutions. A better way of doing things. Blaming 'whitey' for all their problems is both inaccurate, and unproductive. Of course, one of the things that have been lost in this country, and NOT just by the black community, is personal responsibility. No one is responsible for their own actions. It is always someone elses fault. I am fed up with the excuses for poor behavior, and blaming everyone else for problems that most of those folks have brought upon themselves. It doesn't matter what ANYONE outside the community does, it won't improve a damn thing within the community. The community itself MUST stand up, take responsibility, and then take steps to improve itself. No outside effort, especially by 'whitey', will have any good effect at all, if it is forced upon them from outside. Change comes from within, and unless/until these communities step up to the plate, nothing will change. Which is EXACTLY what I expect to happen. Nothing.

 

They have to be allowed to make those changes though, and they are not, or made highly implausible, a lot of the time. I suppose if one has never been in or have close ties to someone in such a situation it can be very hard to see the disparity and desperation. The fact still remains, blame or no blame, that people do not start on an equal playing field, some people have to do a lot more to get to the same place. Hell, isn't that what American politics is all about these days. People are demanding change. If they don't get it you can guarantee the problems supposedly isolated to 'black communities' will become increasingly wide-spread as more people fall through the net.

 

In no way shape or form am I saying this is a easy situation to solve, and it certainly can't be done by any 'individual' community on it's own. That is the whole point of 'integration' or 'civilisation' or whatever you want to call it. Of course who integrates with who is also something that begs questioning but it is what it is so maybe that is another discussion... but yes, I agree poor behaviour and bad form in all parts of government and society at large have perpetuated issues that may have been easier to mend in the past, into completely new territory that creates a viscous spiral where there are fewer and fewer winners.

[HeyYou]

 

Assigning blame solves nothing, it just perpetuates the problem. Instead of focusing on whose fault it is, the black community should be looking for solutions. A better way of doing things. Blaming 'whitey' for all their problems is both inaccurate, and unproductive. Of course, one of the things that have been lost in this country, and NOT just by the black community, is personal responsibility. No one is responsible for their own actions. It is always someone elses fault. I am fed up with the excuses for poor behavior, and blaming everyone else for problems that most of those folks have brought upon themselves. It doesn't matter what ANYONE outside the community does, it won't improve a damn thing within the community. The community itself MUST stand up, take responsibility, and then take steps to improve itself. No outside effort, especially by 'whitey', will have any good effect at all, if it is forced upon them from outside. Change comes from within, and unless/until these communities step up to the plate, nothing will change. Which is EXACTLY what I expect to happen. Nothing.

 

They have to be allowed to make those changes though, and they are not, or made highly implausible, a lot of the time. I suppose if one has never been in or have close ties to someone in such a situation it can be very hard to see the disparity and desperation. The fact still remains, blame or no blame, that people do not start on an equal playing field, some people have to do a lot more to get to the same place. Hell, isn't that what American politics is all about these days. People are demanding change. If they don't get it you can guarantee the problems supposedly isolated to 'black communities' will become increasingly wide-spread as more people fall through the net.

 

In no way shape or form am I saying this is a easy situation to solve, and it certainly can't be done by any 'individual' community on it's own. That is the whole point of 'integration' or 'civilisation' or whatever you want to call it. Of course who integrates with who is also something that begs questioning but it is what it is so maybe that is another discussion... but yes, I agree poor behaviour and bad form in all parts of government and society at large have perpetuated issues that may have been easier to mend in the past, into completely new territory that creates a viscous spiral where there are fewer and fewer winners.

 

Sometimes, I think that is actually what the plan is...... Our government continues to do things that undermine the 'american dream', making it unattainable for 95% of the population..... We see policies that favor the rich, at the expense of everyone else, not just the poor communities...... We are headed rapidly toward self-destruction....... People can see it, they can talk about it, but the underlying policies do not change, and we continue on our downward trend, at an ever-increasing pace...... Somethings gotta give.... and I don't think its going to be a pretty picture when it does.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 'white community' needs to do the same. It's different, but two sides of the same coin. It's also not easy and those above us who benefit most like to keep it that way, so yes it's slow too. However we must also not forget to hold ourselves and those most 'like' us or closest to us, under the same scrutiny we hold those that we can easily distance ourselves from. The media can make all this exponentially more difficult though, I agree. But we must try so as to preserve that which has been fought for, or it's a 'race' to the bottom where we will quickly see how near the bottom we already are.

How so?

 

I don't see the white community getting all up in arms when a white thug is killed by cops.

I don't see the white community rioting in the streets, dragging black folks out of their cars, and beating them to death.

I don't see the white community burning down businesses in their own neighborhoods.

I don't see "White Lives Matter" protesting every time a white thug is killed.

 

Sorry, I don't see any parallels there.

It is exactly because you DON'T see these things. THAT'S the point.

 

That makes zero sense to me. We have one community that supports the thugs, and trashes their own neighborhood when one dies. We have another community that pretty much doesn't bat an eye when one of their thugs is killed. Seems to me, that would indicate an issue with the first examples community, not the second one......

 

That's because you are not an ideologue.

 

 

If that's supposedly the case then why start the discussion?? Appears that any reasoning contrary to what yourself and HeyYou are saying has no validity (?)

 

The reason for the 'differences' between communities, as I have and others have said repeatedly, is because the 'nuture' side of things has gone horribly wrong. This is not always an excuse, BUT it is a reason, and the 'white community' has to also step up to the plate and realise its role in the course of things (not just try put band-aids on a gaping wound). Some people do, this is true for both 'sides', but the many just see it as a 'racial' issue while those who are sceptical find it very difficult to challenge ideas and the system because they will likely end up victims themselves.

 

I'll agree that the 'black community' could do with more positive role models so as to break up the monotony, but we all know this is also a rigged game. Institutional racism runs very deep and the media is not immune. For example, a lot of crime isn't reported or escalated the same way other crime is, if they wanted a slightly different twist they need not look far, but of course there is also a lot of money and power that gets in the way. The 'white community' benefits a great deal from holding other communities under a microscope so as to pass the buck, this is pretty obvious, perhaps uncomfortable to realise and 'support' but true all the same. Try going against the grain and you'll quickly encounter the blunt end of the law yourself, so yes anything other than the 'group think' is not easy to do. Again certain elements of this can be applied to both 'sides' and this is why it is such a difficult problem to solve, so much rough water has gone under the bridge that it makes them ever more difficult to cross.

 

This was not about the differences in anything. This was about attitudes, ideals and choices. It's not about social engineering which has had about remote control social engineering that lays the blame for these government programs not working. on some vague term like institutionalized racism. It's about society not giving a crap and people doing the least little bit to get by. This is not a community effort here, because the larger the group being looked at the easier it is to loose individual responsibilities. Change starts with the individual. It has too beause no matter where a person starts out, if there is no drive, then that is where they will stay.

 

 

As I have said, these things are slow. Institutional is not 'vague' simply because you don't want to or can't see it. Besides, it IS in a way 'vague' - that is the whole point to it, as I have tried to explain. It is obvious that if a group feel targeted then the individual would try stand up for themselves and the group... such is the case in every community everywhere. Even when looking at individuals, the environment they have to deal with has to be considered. For every majority of people that get sucked up into 'the system' there may be a few who make a small change or maybe even a big difference. However, these are not the stories or scenes plastered across our news channels and 'entertainment' prime time - not only is it against many interests, but people also have an unfortunate fascination with the misery and misfortune of others.

 

Also, to 'escape' such downward spirals it means that one has to accept difficult truths, and truths that are not always a case of "oh, it's all me and 'my community's' fault". The realities of African American history are still prevalent as it was not really that long ago, and unfortunately things the world over have not progressed as much as many would like to believe. I share the frustration but it is too simple and unfair to solely blame it on the 'black community' - and also does a disservice to all the progress that HAS been made.

 

You're right in that it takes a community effort, but this is the case for all communities so as to find common ground, compromise and mutual understanding and benefit. I do sometimes despair how hypocritical the 'white community' is and how quick it is to find fault and blame with every other community/race/creed but their own (although, see group mentality above). Even when it tries to, it seems to think a piece of paper will do the job while minds and ideas remain unchanged. Such things could be said for any other community for that matter, but so long as the 'white community' keeps seeing itself as special and 'better' then no one is going to listen to them because it's not.

 

 

I'm going to have to return to this once I found out what's up with firefox. It keeps on freezing up 1/2 way through my post.

 

 

[modder3434]

When the BLM folks start protesting black on black crime, and not just when white cops shoot blacks, then I might give them some credit, until then... Nope.

 

There are so many problems with what you propose, some of which I have already detailed, that I am not even going to bother to go any further with this.

 

Face it, NO ONE is going to invite the NG in to enforce laws, as that is EXACTLY what they will be doing. You can try and pass me off as just some prejudiced, biased, whatever, that has no clue of the reality on the ground, but, you would be wrong.

 

There is NO easy solution here. Involving the military, in any form, isn't the answer. These communities need to work from within to solve their issues. Unfortunately, they don't seem able to do so. They seem to expect the government to solve all their problems, and the government has proven terribly inept at solving anything.

 

Very well said. I agree 100%.

 

Off to the next debate, as HeyYou has said everything I would have said, but he put if much more concise and to the point then i would have done.