Did you kill Paarthurnax?

[shotgun188]

The Blades may be Dragon hunters and letting Paarthurnax live may be against their honour but they are also the sworn protectors of the Dragonborn so not helping you unless you kill someone helping you defeat Alduin is pretty stupid and goes against their honour just as much.

[BrettM]

Paarth said that dragons have an urge to dominate, which is not exactly the same thing as an urge to evil, though the two are often closely connected.

 

In any case, the ancient relationship between dragons and men seems to have been more complex than a simple desire to enslave. If you read The Dragon War, you get a sense of this. Dragons and men lived at peace in Atmora and the dragons could not be bothered to actually rule, though they were happy to be regarded as god-kings. It was the dragon priests -- men -- in Tamriel who actually fouled things up by becoming greedy for power and enslaving the rest of the population, causing the rebellion.

 

Nor are all dragons alike, to be condemned universally as a race. According to The Dragon War a few dragons took the side of men during the rebellion. Paarthurnax may not have been the only dragon to have a moral change of heart, and perhaps there were even some who were always friendly to men. Later, during the second and third eras, we know there were other dragons who had peaceful associations with mortals, including at least one who was under the direct protection of Tiber Septim himself. (For that matter, the Graybeards and Paarth were under the protection of the Septim dynasty as well.) Did the Blades refuse to serve him because of this? I think not, so their oath is apparently more flexible than Delphine claims.

[GnatGoSplat]

I just completed the main quest day before yesterday after months of completing all the other quests. I liked having Delphine and Esbern as followers since I suck at fights and needed all the help I could get. I didn't kill Paarthurnax. Just didn't seem right, after all the help he gave in defeating Alduin.

 

According to the wikis, I'd already completed all their quests anyway. Only loss is they won't send me on any more dragon battles with the Blades any more, but no biggie, those dragons have a way of finding me without me having to seek them out.

 

I did think they really should have added another quest to convince Esbern and Delphine that sparing Paarthurnax was the right decision. Or at least just a Persuade option that's accessible after Alduin dies. After all we'd been through together, all the Draugrs, Foresworn, and bandits we'd slaughtered together, all the cave dungeons we explored together, the least they could do is hear me out!

 

Esbern was alright, but I never really cared for Delphine anyway. She was rather self-rightous, attacking me any time she caught me committing even minor crimes. I mean, seriously, I'm the freakin' Dragonborn, savior of all man-kind, and you're gonna attack me for stealing a piece of bread? At least Esbern would always come to my defense anytime Delphine went psycho.

[UltraElectroMagnetic]

I wouldn't dare kill him. He's so adorable on his mountain. Also, he's voice by Mario.

[CACoy]

I didn't kill him eithet, and the quest was removed from my quest journal when I returned from sovengard. Not sure if I finish dark brotherhood quest or finally pick a side in the civil war...

[ToniPrufrock]

Paarthurnax stayed alive for a number of reasons:

 

1. The Blades did not provide sufficient justification for wanting him dead. Whatever evil he did in the far distant past, I think, has been more than compensated for by thousands of years of self-imposed isolation and aiding mortals at every opportunity. All of their arguments ring hollow; they admit they would not consider any alternatives and state that they would want him dead even if he had done nothing wrong because hunting dragons is the Blades' sworn duty. What they want is the extermination of an entire species, and I am of the belief that such radical measures are a last resort of the "break glass in case of imminent destruction of world" variety. That particular threat ended with Alduin's defeat- hence I cannot condone and will not help the Blades commit xenocide.

 

2. He's an invaluable resource, both in defeating Alduin and in facing any future threats to Skyrim and the rest of Tamriel. The guy's got more years and knowledge than any two other critters alive in the world- and he's got the will to use it for constructive ends. Alduin would never have been overthrown without Paarthurnax. Alduin would never have been finally and totally defeated without Paarthurnax; it was his timeless knowledge that allowed the Dovahkiin to discover and eventually learn the dragonrend shout. He also knows more about history than anyone else alive by virtue of having been alive through all of it. He can provide scholars with accurate information about times and places that there are no surviving records of.

 

3. By the end of the game, there are quite a few dragons up and flying around, and they remain a threat despite their little "we respect you" assembly on the mountaintop. Paarthurnax is the only voice of reason that any of them are likely to listen to; he may be able to calm at least some of the other dragons and get them to stop preying on mortals- as he did once before, a long time ago. The dragons may respect the Dovahkiin's power- but the Dovahkiin is mortal and the dragons are not. They need a positive influence that shares their potential for immortality and exists on their level.

 

4. Killing Paarthurnax sends a message to the rest of the dragons that they may expect peace to be rewarded with death. No dragon has done more for mortals than Paarthurnax; if he is not safe then all dragons must consider mortals to be their enemies. Sparing him provides a clear example that coexistence is not impossible in the long term.

 

5. On the whole, Paarthurnax and the Greybeards present as being rational and circumspect almost to a fault. Paarthurnax founded the Greybeards- their philosophy of fearing and respecting power derives from him. That more than anything else demonstrates that he has no ambition for world domination; for countless generations he has dedicated himself to the pursuit of wisdom and balance. He offers no excuse for his earlier crimes and shows remorse, even shame, for what he and his kind once did. He did not seize the reins of power when Alduin was defeated the first time, nor did he do so the second time. He claims that he fights a constant battle against his own natural urges- he doesn't want to rule the world, or even a tiny part of it. He even keeps the Greybeards at a distance- they clearly would worship him if he allowed it, and I think that is the very reason why he maintains that distance. Those who seek to avoid power tend to be the ones who use power most responsibly- hence I believe Paarthurnax can be trusted.

 

6. It strikes me as unlikely that Tiber Septim, who studied with the Greybeards, was not aware of who and what Paarthurnax was. He concealed that knowledge from the Blades. Now, I don't know what the man's personality was like, but now we're talking divine favor here. Paarthurnax was directly involved in the education of a god. Presumably, even if Talos had not known about Paarthurnax's past before ascending to godhood, he would have gained full knowledge of it after. If one of the Nine (screw you, Thalmor) thought it best to leave Paarthurnax be, what could a pair of over-the-hill spies who have no actual experience in their order's original purpose know about whether or not he deserves to live? Surely if Talos wished the Blades to end Paarthurnax's life, he could have delivered a vision to any of the priests of the Order of Talos over the many long years and thus informed the Blades of his location? They are devout followers of Talos; this is made very clear in Oblivion and it is given as one of the reasons why the Thalmor are so dedicated to purging their order. Nirn is a world where gods are real and have real power over their worshipers. The one god who had to have had intimate knowledge about one of the last surviving dragons chose not to reveal that information to his own followers, whom he knew would be duty-bound to slay that dragon.

 

QED. Paarthurnax will always remain alive in my games.

 

 

You hit the nail right on the head. Fantastic reasons.

I've not reached that point yet, but I could never kill him.

[kevkiev]

I guess crit of the storylines being a little thin in Skyrim has been beaten to death, but the "Kill Paarthunax" choices from Delphine was the first time I was actually pissed off. To paraphrase Wrath_of_Deadguy, it just didn't make a lot of sense. It actually just seemed like a really cheap way to try and set up some sort of moral ambiguity conundrum. Anyways, I DL'd the mod that allows the Dovahkin to berate Delphine for making such a stupid suggestion and solved things that way. Seemed like the immersive thing to do.

[Cobwebmaster]

I agree that the instruction from the blades to kill Paarthanax is about the only quest line that actually skeeves me out in Skyrim. The blades are the servants of the Dragonborn or they are nothing but a bunch of cultists who are just as radical and extremist as the Altmeri in their own way. Any grandmaster of the blades who thought he could take on a whole nation of High Elves (Ayleids) and win with a few sword carrying monks can't have had all his dogs barking! The dragonborn decides what the policy is not them and if you want to get rid of the major canker to peace in Skyrim the Thalmor are the current problem not all of the dragons. Personally I'd like an option that allows me to remove or re-educate the blades who have obviously lost their way philosophically. Dragons that are a threat need to be removed but personally I would rather make peace than war and the dragons potential as allies in that quest cannot be ignored. They are about the only thing that will make the Altmeri step back a few paces. A couple of Dragons devastating High Elf country will force them to the peace table and allow trade and progress for all to be restored. The Empire respected each province's religion and traditions, the Altmeri definitely do not and simply like the dragons of old desire to enslave. Dragons like mountains and I guess sheep and stuff. It's cold up in them thar mountains and some barbecued mammoth is a big meal for a family of four. I even as a Nord wouldn't want to freeze my nuts off up there other than maybe for a sightseeing trip. Mi casa es su casa? Live and let live I think where possible

[MrSeptim]

I've only completed the main quest once and i didn't do it. I'm having a replay now with a new character and i will not kill him this time either. :) However, i do wish that Delphine was killable after "Dragonslayer". :) She's so rude, i liked her at first but after the meeting on High Hrothgar i started to despise her.

[Dalgon]

The answer to this question is in what Paarthurnax himself says when you inform him that the Blades want him dead. It has been a while but it's something along these lines:

 

"They are wise to not trust me. But, let me ask you a question. Which is better? Someone who is "born" good, or someone who overcomes his evil nature through great effort?"

 

Or, in other words. Who has the best "good will?" Someone who is good simply because they grew up knowing that evil is bad, or someone who is evil, puts aside all his feelings, urges, and like he says "his very nature" and performs good acts?

 

That should be your answer to the question.

 

I believe that for millennia, since he helped the humans defeat Alduin, and his continued "watch" to fight Alduin if and when he returns, Paarthurnax has redeemed himself in more ways than any could ever achieve.

 

What have the blades done in comparison? Or specifically, what has Delphine done in comparison?

 

Long after Delphine is gone and dead, Paarthurnax will till be watching to keep the dragons at bay.

 

And EVEN if he eventually returns to his evil nature, he still gave us the tools to defeat the dragons and him... Should it become necessary.