Narmix Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Oh me, oh my -- I did some testing against live enemies instead of dummies. When it comes to hit detection against live things, arrows definitely "snap" to the enemy when the arrow comes close to him. In otherwords, if it would fly just a foot over his head, it'll snap down to hit the center of his head. You can watch the arrow fly... going for his head... closer... closer... just about to go over, and then WHAM teleported about 4 inches down so that it goes through the center of his head. Oddly, this doesn't happen when you're close to the living target. If you're close, the arrow will go exactly where it should (according to the rules stated up above). But when you get 15+ feet away, the game starts auto-aiming for you. Eek. The further away you are, the more egregious the auto aiming. 30 feet away? Then expect an arrow that would otherwise brush past someone's arm to instead fly straight for their head instead. I tested this by going into the console and typing "TAI" and "TCAI". This disables all AI, globally. In otherwords, everyone just stands around and won't react to anything. You're free to use them as pincushions for tests. Go ahead and test it. It's more obvious if you're using the eagle-eye perk, so you can watch the arrow deliberately fly to the enemy, even if you're aiming off to a side/above. I REALLY hope there's a way to turn this off or someone can make a mod. All those headshots I had are now worth nothing to me. Before someone says anything about the bow's arc, I know all of that. I've tested it a lot and I understand how it works. The following is how it works. http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/1859/bowskyrim.jpg I did not modify the ini in order to remove the natural arc Bethesda added. I prefer it, due to the above. It's actually realistic and it's my supposition that they did it on purpose for realism's sake. Yes, even if you're looking perfectly straight, the arrow arcs just like in the picture. The arc here, is NOT the issue, so please don't discuss it. In my opinion this fact is already established. You can test it yourself against target dummies while aiming for the bullseye. What I want to discuss is this blatant auto-aim or aim-assist when firing arrows at living things -- not dummies. Even though the arrow follows the trajectory described above, it WILL teleport off course in order to HIT the enemy when it would have otherwise MISSED. Does anyone know how to turn this awful auto-aim off? This is a totally separate issue from the arrow arching. The game, even if you're aim is off, will direct your arrow to hit the target and I hate it. The further you are from the target, the more aiming assistance it gives. No, you're NOT all pro archers getting headshots from 100 yards away like robin hood. The game has this almost "magnetism" that sucks arrows into heads from a distance. It biases the arrow's flight. Arrows work perfectly against dummies or other non-living targets, but if the target is alive, the game tries to make the arrow hit. Bleh. Picture Demonstrating:http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5485/skyrimautoaim.jpg Uploaded with ImageShack.us Edited November 23, 2011 by Narmix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarKirby3333 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) are you sure it's autoaim? I'd be more liable to blame this on large hitboxes. i'm fairly confident also, that where the arrow sticks into the enemy, has only a very small correlation with where you actually hit them. it probably uses fuzzy area-detection, based on little more than the height of impact, and maybe the facing of the victim. The visual arrow is opbviously created in an approximate position depending on the above factors. Because if it wasn't, you\d get arrows floating in midair next to the character instead because they hit a part of his bounding box that contains nothing visual. The collision boxes are always going to have to be a little bit fuzzy to accomodate for the variety of armors and outfits that alter your bulk. Edited November 23, 2011 by WarKirby3333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narmix Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) are you sure it's autoaim? I'd be more liable to blame this on large hitboxes. i'm fairly confident also, that where the arrow sticks into the enemy, has only a very small correlation with where you actually hit them. it probably uses fuzzy area-detection, based on little more than the height of impact, and maybe the facing of the victim. Assuredly not. I couldn't show it with screenshots, but many, MANY times the arrow would change path right from the get go. The bit where I say "when you're further away, the auto-targeting is even worse" means this: When you're further away than I was in the screenshots, the arrow will actually home in on the target. Even if I aim a foot to his left or right, as soon as I release the arrow, it'll make a B-Line right for him. This seems to only happen, though, when the target is "Aggroed". When the target is not aggroed, then it fuctions exactly as in the screenshots -- Arrows that would narrowly miss are instead sucked toward the center of the target's body. It's really blatent. You can test it for yourself. Try turning off all AI (console -> "TCAI" and then "TAI") and firing arrows at someone. You'll see them get sucked toward them. Especially helpful in checking this is having the eagle-eye perk so you can more easily watch your arrow. THEN, turn all the AI back on. Reload the save, and aggro a guard. Then immediately go into the console and turn all AI off. This way it's just like above, except the guard is already mad at you. Now that he's mad at you, the auto-aim is even more extreme -- you have homing arrows. They'll fly right toward the target as soon as they're launched. It's awful :( Note: The purpose of turning off the AI is so that you simply don't have to have the town fight you. Everyone just stands there, oblivious. It really helps in testing this. Also, rebuttal: I understand what you're saying about hitboxes. I agree that the game snaps them to the center of an area so that they don't wind up on the sides of arms/heads/etc... however, when you get further away from a target, the arrows that would miss by a foot (or more) will teleport to the enemy. If those are hitboxes, those are HUGE hitboxes. When you're up close to someone (within 3 feet) you can fire an arrow through someone's hair (i.e. a centimeter over their head) and it won't detect it (slight exaggeration). In otherwords, when you're close, you can fire arrows very close to the person, but miss. However, the further away you get, the more bias it puts on your arrows to hit their mark. From 100 feet away, you only have to fire within a few feet and it'll get sucked to them. It's like the hitboxes grow if you're further away. ::edit:: UPDATE: The following variables have been found in the engine: bAutoAimBasedOnDistancefAutoAimMaxDegreesfAutoAimMaxDegrees3rdPersonfAutoAimMaxDistancefMagnetismStrafeHeadingMultfMagnetismLookingMult I wonder if these can be tweaked in the ini? I'm going to do some testing. Edited November 23, 2011 by Narmix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narmix Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) are you sure it's autoaim? I'd be more liable to blame this on large hitboxes. i'm fairly confident also, that where the arrow sticks into the enemy, has only a very small correlation with where you actually hit them. it probably uses fuzzy area-detection, based on little more than the height of impact, and maybe the facing of the victim. Assuredly not. I couldn't show it with screenshots, but many, MANY times the arrow would change path right from the get go. The bit where I say "when you're further away, the auto-targeting is even worse" means this: When you're further away than I was in the screenshots, the arrow will actually home in on the target. Even if I aim a foot to his left or right, as soon as I release the arrow, it'll make a B-Line right for him. This seems to only happen, though, when the target is "Aggroed". When the target is not aggroed, then it fuctions exactly as in the screenshots -- Arrows that would narrowly miss are instead sucked toward the center of the target's body. It's really blatent. You can test it for yourself. Try turning off all AI (console -> "TCAI" and then "TAI") and firing arrows at someone. You'll see them get sucked toward them. Especially helpful in checking this is having the eagle-eye perk so you can more easily watch your arrow. THEN, turn all the AI back on. Reload the save, and aggro a guard. Then immediately go into the console and turn all AI off. This way it's just like above, except the guard is already mad at you. Now that he's mad at you, the auto-aim is even more extreme -- you have homing arrows. They'll fly right toward the target as soon as they're launched. It's awful :( Note: The purpose of turning off the AI is so that you simply don't have to have the town fight you. Everyone just stands there, oblivious. It really helps in testing this. Also, rebuttal: I understand what you're saying about hitboxes. I agree that the game snaps them to the center of an area so that they don't wind up on the sides of arms/heads/etc... however, when you get further away from a target, the arrows that would miss by a foot (or more) will teleport to the enemy. If those are hitboxes, those are HUGE hitboxes. When you're up close to someone (within 3 feet) you can fire an arrow through someone's hair (i.e. a centimeter over their head) and it won't detect it. In otherwords, when you're close, you can fire arrows very close to the person, but miss. However, the further away you get, the more bias it puts on your arrows to hit their mark. From 100 feet away, you only have to fire within a few feet and it'll get sucked to them. It's like the hitboxes grow if you're further away. ::edit:: UPDATE: The following variables have been found in the engine: bAutoAimBasedOnDistancefAutoAimMaxDegreesfAutoAimMaxDegrees3rdPersonfAutoAimMaxDistancefMagnetismStrafeHeadingMultfMagnetismLookingMult I wonder if these can be tweaked in the ini? I'm going to do some testing. ::EDIT:: UPDATE #2 False alarm, no fix found. Edited November 23, 2011 by Narmix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Noticing the opposite to your situation myself. Countless times my arrow shoots just over their head instantly alerting them to my presence. If it only works in combat... Then I don't think it's bothered me all that much since I'm usually just concerned with killing things as quickly as I can and don't want to have to fine-tune my aim excessively to hit a target. If it is happening, it is only about 2 pixels difference at 40 yards on my screen, at which point I'd rather have things fuzzy than feel like the game was being extremely picky. However, things shooting somewhere other than where I'm aiming is a bit of a problem and hate many games that do this sort of thing with ranged attacks since it makes leading a target almost impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narmix Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Noticing the opposite to your situation myself. Countless times my arrow shoots just over their head instantly alerting them to my presence. If it only works in combat... Then I don't think it's bothered me all that much since I'm usually just concerned with killing things as quickly as I can and don't want to have to fine-tune my aim excessively to hit a target. If it is happening, it is only about 2 pixels difference at 40 yards on my screen, at which point I'd rather have things fuzzy than feel like the game was being extremely picky. However, things shooting somewhere other than where I'm aiming is a bit of a problem and hate many games that do this sort of thing with ranged attacks since it makes leading a target almost impossible. Odd. It definitely seems to function in two ways. 1) When target is not aggroed. This is the less obvious auto-aim. When an arrow that would otherwise miss by a foot or less reaches an enemy, it will be sucked (teleported) into the target's center of mass. I.e. if it's about to go past his right arm, just as it reaches him, it'll teleport to either the center of his arm or even his chest (sometimes his head!). 2) When the target IS aggroed, the auto-aim is even more extreme. In this case, if the crosshair is in the general vicinity of the enemy, the arrow will actually fly straight for him -- not teleport to him at the last second, but actually try to lead or otherwise aim itself right at him. This is *extreme* auto-aim in my opinion. It feels like in this situation, the game is giving you assistance that the AI actually uses when fighting YOU with bows. The changes posted at the beginning of my OP explains how to turn it off. Edited November 23, 2011 by Narmix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluminumfoil Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Has the ini change been tested to work? EDIT: and are these changes for the ini in the install directory, or the My Documents directory? Edited November 23, 2011 by Aluminumfoil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narmix Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) ::Edit:: My changes apparently didn't work. Or they at least improved it (maybe only a few of those settings should be set to zero?). I don't know. I wish we could figure this out. Edited November 23, 2011 by Narmix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogiefluff Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 My own tests show this to not work at all. I did as instructed and added the whole [Actor] section at the bottom of my Skyrim.ini. Is there anything I might be doing wrong? My ini files are not Read-Only and I am restarting the game each time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narmix Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) My own tests show this to not work at all. I did as instructed and added the whole [Actor] section at the bottom of my Skyrim.ini. Is there anything I might be doing wrong? My ini files are not Read-Only and I am restarting the game each time. I'm not sure. Let me test it again under some different conditions. ::edit:: Damn it. It seems really picky. When I aim at some areas, the arrow wizzes by, but aiming in other areas (like you did -- to the right of someone's head) the arrow definitely homes right it. What can we do?? At least we've brought this auto-aim to people's attention. I'm going to get some sleep. I hope we can figure this out. Edited November 23, 2011 by Narmix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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