Skyrim isn't dumbed down. Purists are.

[minngarm]

Consider a few points here.

 

First lack of polearms, the basic weapon type that infact came first in every part of the world. There is no logical way to approach this, a large stick, is a spear, its a polearm, Why are there no polearms?

 

Then lets go into weapons.

 

One Handers;

 

Swords: From the fanciful to the simple, they all have the same base principle, slash and poke, really not much else to them, you can parry with most fairly well as they are a good size and provide a decently balanced weapon.

 

Maces: Blunt and Top heavy, these suckers are made for crushing, crushing, and more crushing. Great for cracking open skulls and smashing in armor plates, due to the top heavy feature of them you have to learn to use them with a bit more care than a sword as you run the risk of over extending yourself easy and need to be able to recover, or curve a strike midflight.

 

Axes: Tricky little bastards these ones, Like maces they are top heavy, but are not meant to simply bash at youre enemy constantly until something breaks, the sleek shaft and bladed tip make them great for getting behind shields, and other weapons to damage forarms, torsos, and the like. Actually requires a good bit more finesse than the other one handers as you can easily get caught up on things and find your axe pulled out from your grasp.

 

Why am I explaining each one seperately you ask? Simple, learning one does not make you more proficent with the others. I have actually trained IRL with each of these, and you can not fight with one as you would with another, first time I did that with a mace fighting like it was a sword i got knocked on my ass in the first few seconds. Dont even get me started on what happened with the Axe. Now I can get a general one hand fighting style skill, sure, base tactics of placement of yourself, your shield, and how to approach groups or individuals is similar, not the same outright but similar. However you HAVE to add skills for each if you want to be the least bit accurate.

 

The same applies for 2-handers, a Broadsword is used from a over head or high stance and brought down to cut through your enemy, while a warhammer is generally used at an angle or side sweeping. Much the same as the 2handed axes.

 

The game is simplified, dumbed down. Saying its not and its a console game, is saying its dumbed down. Because frankly thats what console games are compared to PC games. IF you are stupid enough to think thats a "console/PC fanboy" comment then you really dont know much of anything about gaming. You can not do on a console what you can do on a pc, simply because PCs have far more resources to pull from, and can perform at a higher level than a console.

[Lachdonin]

That problem started with Oblivion though, as i stated before. There is an element of streamlining involved, of course, but there comes a point where it becomes streamlined at the expence of immersion. I think Skyrim pushes that line a little too closely in regards to weapon skills.

 

There is also, again, the magic issue. It's really too basic. it's great for casual gamers to pick-up and play, but it offers nothing for people who want to really get into it. Even Enchanting is oversimplified to the point hwere its basicly 'Enchanting for Idiots'. No longer can you manually adjust the damage or apply your own effects, you're based purely on what Enchants Bethesda has created, and what the power of the soulstone you have is.

 

All in all, i like Skyrim, and actually enjoy it more than i did Oblivion. Many parts of the game are vast improvements, and the perk system makes it so each playthrough is even more unique than you could have managed before. I also praise getting rid of the archaeic Class system which, even in table top RPGs is becomming more and more rubbish.

 

That said, i do feel Bethesda is treading a dangerous slope in regards to some parts of the game.

 

 

As an asside, does anyone actually like the Oblivion style Soul Gems? Am i the only one who misses the days when you could tell what type of gem you were looking at?

[Beriallord]

They removed a few skills, sure, but they were mostly filler skills and relatively useless. I honestly hated leveling up just by walking and jumping. I'm glad they removed athletics/acrobatics. And you can still specialize in one weapon type through perks. And they even got part of the tree for duel wielding. They got rid of Mysticism, but that was actually the least useful of the magic schools anyway, how would they have even perked it? They would have to put more perks in that nobody would even use. So they just split that up into the other schools, Conjuration getting Soul Trap and etc.

 

I think Vanilla Skyrim is considerably better than Vanilla Oblivion. Although I liked the quests in Oblivion better.

 

The biggest gripe I got with Skyrim is the UI, and eventually someone is going to fix it as soon as they release the tool set.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Beriallord

[Jackal2233]

To be honest, I hated how in Oblivion you can swing a sword at master level yet swing a mace at novice level, some changes were indeed for the better. Edited November 24, 2011 by Jackal2233

[DarkGenius]

They removed a few skills, sure, but they were mostly filler skills and relatively useless. I honestly hated leveling up just by walking and jumping. I'm glad they removed athletics/acrobatics. And you can still specialize in one weapon type through perks. And they even got part of the tree for duel wielding. They got rid of Mysticism, but that was actually the least useful of the magic schools anyway, how would they have even perked it? They would have to put more perks in that nobody would even use. So they just split that up into the other schools, Conjuration getting Soul Trap and etc.

 

I think Vanilla Skyrim is considerably better than Vanilla Oblivion. Although I liked the quests in Oblivion better.

 

The biggest gripe I got with Skyrim is the UI, and eventually someone is going to fix it as soon as they release the tool set.

 

 

But Beriallord, you think it's fair what they did with Telekinesis?

[saintjimmyz]

Skyrim is not dumbed down. It doesn't have pointless stats. Or pointless numbers. It has a lot more depth than Morrowind or Obliion combined, but for the misguided fool it may seem that fewer pointless numbers or stats mean the game is dumbed down. It's actually much deeper and more time can be spent ENJOYING the game, not the most pointless thing and something that I simply couldn't give a sh it about: the levels. I don't know what level I am. I just immerse into the world and if you'd stop trying to play it like dungeons and dragons or world of warnerd you'd be able to play 100hrs and have just breached the surface of things to do. Not levels to complete, but adventures.

 

Classes are pointless too.

All it is is purist fever: the core fans hate change and if it ain't a reskin of the favorite it's not a true sequel or is "dumbed down" as many purists are saying about Skyrim.

 

Same problem in any game community. I played morrowind lots too...great...in that level never cared about my level, and there was so mug less depth than oblivion. If you stop caring about the useless: levels and numbers and text, you'll see Skyrim kicks the sh it out of morrowind.

 

I agree that the changes to skyrim do not neccessarily make it dumbed down. However, you are clearly not trying to make a genuine point, but just trolling to start a flame war. Anyone who thinks that skyrim is infinitely more immersive than morrowind has been on too much acid. The depth in morrowind is what sets it apart from skyrim and oblivion, morrowind is far more detailed, there is far more to do, its far more immersive and in much greater detail than its successors. Cyrodiil and Skyrim are tiny, dead and empty compared to Vvardenfell, no question of that. If you had tried to make a valid point rather than merely trying to spark off a flame war, then people might actually respect the handful of decent, valid points you are making - because you are right, the lack of stats does not neccessarily make the game worse. But no, you had to be a jackass.

[Jackal2233]

Morrowind had no voice acting with the dialogue, quests were much easier to include. It was a very, very deep game yes, but it has its drawbacks. You have to strike a balance at some point

[JimboUK]

Purists are dumbed down?

[marharth]

I read the OP expecting a serious argument. I just got "lol stats r not matter, purists are dumb."

 

Stats do matter. It adds depth. If you have attributes you can have much more to change with your character. Vampires are simply better with attributes due to the increased number of stats. More potions and spells can be made with attributes.

 

I also don't get why the dungeons being better somehow justifies the removal of attributes.

 

Quite a few things in Skyrim were made a lot better then Morrowind and Oblivion. That does not matter if we are talking about attributes.

 

Did removing attributes actually do anything positive other then making leveling and the entire system easier?

[BlackCompany]

Skyrim's setup has pros and cons. Frankly the way in which this game forces you to choose either health, mana or stamina at level up adds to - instead of detracts from - depth and strategy. This helps to prevent the lvl 10 god character who always managed +5 to everything and increased health, mana and stamina every level by choosing attributes like Strength, Endurance and Intelligence every level.

 

Of course the same could have been done by limiting to one attribute increase per level up.

 

Meanwhile, all one hand weapons were assigned to a single perk tree and skill type. Like another poster here, I feel this is nonsensical. Axes, maces and swords are vastly different weapons (once more agreeing with previous posters) and I think perks/skills should have reflected this.

 

Its give and take. Some people like spreadsheets. Some people like to just jump in and play. I can sympathize with members of both camps. Unfortunately, Bethesda seems to be moving in only one direction, and that is simplifying things dramatically. The spreadsheet/complexity camp continually is neglected, more and more with each release.

 

As far as whether or not the game is dumbed down...well, I think it would be better if we just agree to disagree and let this go. Just a magnet for argument.