How the mod community can fix the biggest weakness in Skyrim

[evilhippo]

I am not referring to the bugs, which Bethesda will eventually fix (although I did do a double face palm when the latest patch cunningly disabled the most effective community fix. DOH!) but rather... characterisation of NPC companions.

 

Bethesda is great at sweeping vistas and epic stories, but they really do not get the whole 'characterisation' thing. In Fallout New Vegas, they started to produce a few at least somewhat interesting companions (Craig Boone, Rose of Sharon Cassidy and Veronica Santangelo had nice rather tortured back stories and some amusing dialogue)... but face it, they pale into almost insignificance compared to some of the mod community companions. In Fallout, almost everyone I knew who played the game used voiced companion mods such as 'Angel' (a foul mouthed raider companion) or one of the excellent 'Bittercup' mods (a pasty homicidal goth/emo).

 

But truly the pinnacle of mod companions so far is the astonishing fully voiced 'Willow' mod for Fallout New Vegas. Willow shows just what remarkable results are possible even with the clumsy tools available.

 

Yet in Skyrim, although Aela at least looks distinctive and Lydia's weary passive-aggressive "I am sworn to carry your burdens" gets a smile out of me, most of the many possible companions are so devoid of character I often forget their names. They are little more than load carrying place holders. Moreover the companion control options and interface are horrible, a giant step back from what they tried in Fallout New Vegas (I say 'tried' because face it, many of the options did not actually work). In Skyrim we cannot set aggression levels, follow distance, preferred attack modes, make them back up, etc etc... why? The "I want you to do something for me" is a nice idea... except the way you access it and use it is so clunky that it makes it effectively unusable.

 

But what 'Willow' shows is the vast untapped potential that Bethesda inexplicably fails to, er, tap.

 

And that is where the glorious mod makes can take an interesting game and turn it into a truly great game.... companion mods.

[WarKirby3333]

I think calling it the biggest weakness is overstating a bit. I agree that companions are a great addition to the game, but i know there are quite a few people who would rather play without them entirely. Especially stealth oriented characters.

 

I think that skyrim's biggest weakness, by far, is the weak storyline of the civil war arc. It's what will be most remembered, i think.

[evilhippo]

I think calling it the biggest weakness is overstating a bit.

 

We will just have to disagree on that.

 

I agree that companions are a great addition to the game, but i know there are quite a few people who would rather play without them entirely. Especially stealth oriented characters.

 

I think that skyrim's biggest weakness, by far, is the weak storyline of the civil war arc. It's what will be most remembered, i think.

 

 

Well stealth oriented companions only suck because... they suck... they walk into traps and cannot be made less aggressive... and that is rather my point: companions are not well implemented. More importantly, compared to Fallout: New Vegas, they are not even well characterised.

 

And that is where mod makes can do a vastly better job.

 

And I actually have no problem with the civil war story, even if some of the details could use a few tweaks.

 

Question: seeing as how brain dead the AI is, is there any way to use the console to give companions the stealth perk so that they do not set off pressure plate traps?

[Amoramor]

I actually think followers are really nicely done. I don't really use them much, except for the dog, though.

 

Besides, in my opinion Skyrim's biggest weakness is the UI. It's a complete monster.

[FoolyFooly]

It isn't the "biggest weakness" because this isn't a problem that is going to affect everyone. I don't use companions nor do I want companions, I prefer a solo adventure. So it's a non-issue.

Let's be accurate and say it's your biggest weakness.

Edited November 24, 2011 by FoolyFooly

[WarKirby3333]

I actually think followers are really nicely done.

 

I would have to disagree here on the basis that you've never played an RPG with more than one PC. Companions suck. They are a nice idea, poorly implemented.

I shall list just some of the reasons why:

 

1. Equipment control is fuzzy. All you can do i give them stuff, and they equip what THEY THINK is the best.. with enchantments this is rarely so clear-cut.

2. Pathfinding is terrible. they get stuck on scenery and frequently go into waiting mode without being asked, causing them to get lost in dungeons

3. They can die from friendly fire. making them a liability in combat

4. You can only see their health when you target them, AND when the daedric prince of showing you healthbars is in a good mood. There's no reliable or simple way to check their current health, and whether or not oyu can see it is quite variable if there are other lifeforms around.

5. There's no tactical control at all. This is a step backwards. Fallout NV gave you te ability to tell companions to focus on ranged or melee attacks, and to follow you at a near or far distnce. these options weren't always perfect but it was a start. AI in skyrim is even more primitive than that,

6. no statistical information. how do you view your companion's skills/armor value/HP/mana/stamina/etc. you have no access to information beyond their personality, that tells you what they'd be best at using or how to treat them/

[Jackal2233]

2. Pathfinding is terrible. they get stuck on scenery and frequently go into waiting mode without being asked, causing them to get lost in dungeons

 

Yes, this is one :wallbash: gripe I have, after so many years you would think they would have fixed this by now, especially in the standards of rather old first person shooters which has better pathfinding then Skyrim.

[evilhippo]

It isn't the "biggest weakness" because this isn't a problem that is going to affect everyone. I don't use companions nor do I want companions, I prefer a solo adventure. So it's a non-issue.

Let's be accurate and say it's your biggest weakness.

 

No, I could not care less who else it affects as this is *my* opinion of what is the most poorly implemented non-bug related aspect of the game. Companions are a great idea (Bethesda clearly agrees as they added so many), but they are poorly done. Moreover the implementation is actually worse than Bethesda's last comparable game.... hence my hope that mod makes will pick up the ball and run with it.

 

And as I did not make the game, it cannot be 'my' weakness, merely my opinion on what I think Bethesda did not do particularly well by the standards of their own games.

[evilhippo]

I actually think followers are really nicely done.

 

I would have to disagree here on the basis that you've never played an RPG with more than one PC. Companions suck. They are a nice idea, poorly implemented.

I shall list just some of the reasons why:

 

1. Equipment control is fuzzy. All you can do i give them stuff, and they equip what THEY THINK is the best.. with enchantments this is rarely so clear-cut.

2. Pathfinding is terrible. they get stuck on scenery and frequently go into waiting mode without being asked, causing them to get lost in dungeons

3. They can die from friendly fire. making them a liability in combat

4. You can only see their health when you target them, AND when the daedric prince of showing you healthbars is in a good mood. There's no reliable or simple way to check their current health, and whether or not oyu can see it is quite variable if there are other lifeforms around.

5. There's no tactical control at all. This is a step backwards. Fallout NV gave you te ability to tell companions to focus on ranged or melee attacks, and to follow you at a near or far distnce. these options weren't always perfect but it was a start. AI in skyrim is even more primitive than that,

6. no statistical information. how do you view your companion's skills/armor value/HP/mana/stamina/etc. you have no access to information beyond their personality, that tells you what they'd be best at using or how to treat them/

 

Yup, I would agree with every words of that.

 

The "I want you to do this" option is a great idea... in theory... but the interface to actually get to it is simply horrible. UI has always been a weak point for Bethesda and alas Skyrim is no exception. Even the wheel in Fallout New Vegas was better than this.

[Sindrie]

ya companions are very dissapointing mostly (for me) because of there character, it's realy bland iv seen more character from cm compaions in oblivion so thats terrible. also ya NPC AI is really bad for some reason worse then creature AI i noticed this with zombies they would detect an enemy in another room nearby but will walk in circles beause apparently they cant path find to the enemy so I have to got fight them by myself.... which is what all Npcs do for some reason. also ya I had Aela and i had a glitch when she would not equip better armor for some reason, I gave her glass armor and she would use the chest part but not the gloves or boots and would not use a better bow only her stock one.