Imperial VS Stormcloak

[Lisnpuppy]

Here so check this out.

 

I only want one thing from you HighkingUlfricStormcloak and then you have my word as an Legion Officer and a well ah.... errrmmmmm ehhh a "man" that I will never bother you again. Never. Truly. I will leave the Nexus or at least this part of it, and will NEVER return. Ever. All I want you to do, is just do a post, repeating after me:

 

 

I, HighkingUlfricStormcloak recognize StormHammer81 by any other name, as in being a member of the Imperial Legion. I acknowledge that he never was a *Stormcloak* and as such, is not affiliated with Ulfric or the Stormcloaks in any way, neither was he ever a Stormcloak because he did not share our ideals as indicated by his posts.

 

 

That's it. Just reply with the above two sentences and I will never, ever, come to this forum ever again.

 

The choice is yours. The real Ulfric had trouble letting his pride get in the way, so his enemies multiplied. Which choice will you make?

 

I have fought my battles and done my part for the Empire.  I really don't owe anyone a damn thing.

 

If you refuse, I will be compelled to stay and fight longer to so that this is not misunderstood, I don't want that though. Decide please.

I told you (and others) from the last thread of a Stormcloak and Imperial debate to stop making personal attacks and taking and making things personal. I told you to keep your nose clean and it seems you have ignored me. You now get a formal warning and a 14 day posting ban. Next time you won't be coming back.

 

Now to everyone else. I just days ago closed this thread in the debates section. I have no problem closing this also. So 1) Keep on topic 2) no personal attacks or trolling/flaming 3) play nice. Review the Forum Rules and ToS. Don't make me close this.~LIsnpuppy

[StormHammer81]

What about him threatening me harm?

HighkingUlfric should be banned as well.

 

 

I suggest you again review the Forum rules. However let me quote some to you.

 

Nexus sites and the forums are staffed by un-paid volunteers (known as
“moderators” and "staff") who work hard to insure the smooth operation
of Nexus sites and encourage a healthy community. The moderators and
other admin on the site have been given specific privileges by Robin to
keep the site clean of the bad articles listed in these terms and use
their own personal judgement, that Robin trusts, to come to decisions.



These moderators have a right to carry out their task without
harassment, insult or hassle. Members who believe that a member of staff
is not conducting themselves properly should get in contact with Robin
via the forums or email. Know that if Robin receives word of any members
harassing or being rude to Nexus site staff then he will take every
action possible to permanently remove them from his sites.

 

I have not had to moderate the other person before and he has received the same courtesy as you were given. Lets hope he makes better use of the warning I have given the posters in this thread. As per the forum rules if you have a issue with my actions then you need to contact Dark0ne.~Lisnpuppy

Edited March 6, 2013 by Lisnpuppy

[JonarusDrakus]

I forget who said it, but here is a quote that always helps me when it comes to the Imperial -vs- Stormcloak choice:

 

"He who is nt willing to die for something is not fit to live" (Please take note of the implication that "yourself" is not an option under the intent of this quote).

 

I take that quote, combine it with whatever "RP" background I have for my character and get a pretty clear-cut answer. I don't always play the exact same character types with the exact same backgrounds and otivations, so which 'side' I choose varies. This comes about due to the simple fact that the situationis NOT 'black and white', but sades of grey (two distinctly different shades of grey, but stilll 'grey'). Of course, please also take note of my specific intent to avoid emphasising one side or the other - (thread) history has shown that to be counter-productive...

 

I respectfully submit that rather than arguing over which 'side' is right/wrong, we focus on the multitude of factors (non-player factors, there is no reasonable way to account for the wide variety of Players and player characters) that go into the choice... A "pro" and "con" list for both sides at most (and surely everyone will admit that both sides do have "cons" to them, as well as "pros").

 

~JD

[Kayyyleb]

I forget who said it, but here is a quote that always helps me when it comes to the Imperial -vs- Stormcloak choice:

 

"He who is not willing to die for something is not fit to live" (Please take note of the implication that "yourself" is not an option under the intent of this quote).

Life is it's own reward. You only get to do it once. Suggesting that one must be a passionate ideologue or be willing to die for some cause in order to deserve life is an idea I rather strongly resent.

[JonarusDrakus]

It's more about the willingness to value something as 'above' yourself, rather than the cause itself. No cause that meets your lofty standards? Thats the fault of the cause(s), not you. All that is required to meet the needs of the quote is the willingness to aknowledge the *possibity* of a cause greater than your own life, and the willingness to see that belief to the ultimate end (if necissary - to *live* the cause is greater again. But if your gonna die, what better death is there than death for some greater cause?).

 

What can I say, I think I might have been a Samurii in a past life or something :D

 

~JD

[RighthandofSithis]

I have a solution to this childishness.

 

We all grow up and make our points with dignity and respect.

 

Present your argument, not your arrogance! That goes for all parties.

 

Also, on the topic of Nazism, Hitler gained most of his popularity from the middle classes. The working class was actually opposed to him, but they were to divided (between the Communist party and the Social Democratic party. The communist party, under order from Moscow, refused a united front approach).

Edited March 6, 2013 by RighthandofSithis

[LithiumPower]

The reason Faryl Atheron hides his face while working the Brandy-Mug farm is because of his own community. He says that they are ashamed to see him working for a nord, that his own brother would rather they live in squalor than do honest work.

 

Comparisions of Hitler with Ulfric are superficial and preposterous. Ulfric does not hate non-nords, he isn't persecuting anyone. Ghettos are always poorly policed and riddled with crime, poverty and bitterness and it's not because of active, institutionalised racism. Are you going to compare ghettos in New York with Nazi concentration camps now? Ulfric's no more xeno-phobic than the Dunmer themselves - anyone who's spent 2 hours as a non-Dunmer in Morrowind will tell you that and you can even feel it in Solstheim where it's been heavily toned down, or the orcs who will not even tolerate you in their compounds.

 

He is however bitterly resentful of the way the nords have been treated by the Empire and standing up for their beliefs and values is his priority - there's nothing wrong with that. You could stretch it and suggest he's not moved by the plight of the Dunmer or the argonians and perhaps there's an an argument there but then Scouts-Many-Marshes, Free-Winter, Ambarys Rendarr and Suvaris Atheron aren't moved by the persecution of the nords in their own home and refuse to lift a finger to help his cause. You can barely take a stroll outside the cities without running into imperial patrols carting away prisoners - where's their sense of outrage at that?

 

I'm not condoning Agrenor's or Rollf's appalling behaviour but the Dunmer-written book Dunmer of Skyrim corroborates nearly all of their complaints.

 

There are no secret Dunmer gas chambers in the Palace of the Kings which is more than I can say for Castle Dour - did you miss the naked and therefore impliedly raped, and tortured nord woman dead in a cage in the Tullius' torture chamber or the human body parts littered around her or that other talos worshipping prisoner in the jail cell there who's been nearly tortured out of her mind.

 

It's mind boggling how you can call Ulfric a Nazi because the oldest human city in Tamriel has an urban decay problem and completely ignore imperial torture dungeons in Solitude itself.

[kradus]

The only people to successfully invade were the Nedic people. Prodo Nords. No one else has ever invaded and remained there for very long.

 

The Akaviri were not successful. No one else has ever marched into Skyrim except for minor parties like the Forsworn. Reyman Cyrodiil did not. Nor any Colovian King.

 

The Akaviri had made it up to windhelm, and only lost eventually because they had to deal with the Ebonheart pact. I dont see that one happening again.

Plus the Ayelids did dominate Skyrim long ago, but they were more interested in enslaving humans rather than killing them(how the bretons came to be), and eventually the nords rebelled. The Thalmor however seem more interested in genocide, meaning, the nords wont be able to rebell from the grave(draugr dont count).

 

Um, explain how it would be easy for any army to march into skyrim? taking into consideration the rugged terrain, freezing climate, angry warlike people and naturally well defended mountains? Speaking to Jorleif we know that Pale Pass is actually the only route into Cyrodiil, so imagine marching your entire army through 1 narrow mountain pass.

 

As stated above, invasion is possible, and it has happened before. Turning skyrim into a fortress as a tactic is yet to be proven effective.

 

All borders would become open to threats? Name them. Cyrodiil will collapse, Morrowind already has, if High Rock had any interest in Skyrim's territories, they'd probably have intervened in the civil war, and Hammerfell hopefully will ally with Skyrim.

 

How will Hammerfell ally with Skyrim? There have been MANY more unlikely alliance in history (both RL and TES). The Ebonheart pact in the TES universe is the most unlikely (in fact almost impossible) of alliances, while in RL, we know that Joseph Stalin and the West put down their hatred of each other in the face of the common threat. Hell, its even suggested in game by Lu'ah al-Skaven.

 

All borders will be open to attack if the dominion simply take the lands around Skyrim first. I keep repeating myself.

An alliance between Stormcloaks and Hammerfell would only help the Dominion, seeing as they could simply defeat the Stormcloak army in open battle and then easely move in skyrim after Hammefell is done. Hammerfell would be subdued fast this time around, since the Dominion would have a much larger force, not the leftovers of the great war.

 

 

Many smaller "nations" Have defeated more powerful nations in wars before. Prime Example. American Revolution. Hell even Mexico lost to Guatamala in Guatamalas Rebellion. Basically there it was like 100 to 1 odds(not accurate, though seemingly accurate). And there are many more through out history besides these two examples.

 

True not all rebellions or smaller forces vs a bigger force have resulted in a victory for the underdog. But It has happened. The Thalmor, although powerful, are too full of them selves to win in the end. True their tactics up to this point have been effective but they don't nessisarly mean they ultimatly win regardless of which side controls Skyrim.

 

The problem with the human nations in tamriel, is that they're divided if the stormcloaks win. You have High Rock, Cyrodiil and a vast number of imperial supporting nords and veterans who the stormcloaks will have to deal with somehow. The only 2 factions that wouldn't be at odds with each other are Redguards and Skyrim(assuming that Hammerfell will unite again), so that's the only realistic alliance to come out of it. Divide and conquer works for the Thalmor in this case, and Cyrodiil will be defenceless against the dominion, where as with the empire, you have a larger force and the Tactical advantage of only having to defend Cyrodiil.

 

---

 

I dont know who got the idea that the civil unrest in Cyrodiil would be detrimental for recruitment, people would be more likely to look for protection with the army in fact. A large number of soldiers would only help keep things in order, and would be able to put an end to the conflicts in Cyrodiil. And if the Dominion happened to invade, the Legions are already there. You can't have a better coincidence.

 

We ARE the victims. The elves are not. The Dunmer are not victims of anything other than their own laziness and self pity.

 

That's like saying that Talos worshippers are victims of nothing but their pride, when they are discovered by the justiciars. Or that the forsworn are only victims of their free will, or that the slaughtered citizens of Markarth where only victims of their passiveness. How can you possibly idealize a man like Ulfric?

 

The reason Faryl Atheron hides his face while working the Brandy-Mug farm is because of his own community. He says that they are ashamed to see him working for a nord, that his own brother would rather they live in squalor than do honest work.

 

They are ashamed because he's working for a people who mistreates them. He may be right, but so are they.

 

They arent oppressing the Dunmer, they are giving them what they deserve. They dont deserve to be given riches because Morrowind was destroyed. They must work like everyone else. The argonians, hm. I would say that they arent allowed in the city because theres nowhere for them to live and the Dunmer would assault them daily and there would be even more problems.

 

The nords are very much oppressing the Dunmer(not the Altmer), the game makes this clear when you enter Windhelm, and the situation is allowed to carry on by Ulfric's selective negligence. If you talk to Brunwulf, he makes it clear that Argonians/Dunmer/ Khajiit aren't granted protection like the nord citzens, and their lives are clearly made worse by it. You're streching it about the Argonians, from what I've heard they aren't allowed in the city because they aren't trusted/recognised as equals. Then they are confined to heavy labour and low pay if they want to make a living. That's certainly oppressive.

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

I want to apologize for my earlier actions. I was angry and not in the right.( If I am punished for it then so be it)

 

But I stand by my reasons. The Dunmer are guilty of their own mistakes. I, like Lithium Flower, do not support Rolf or Angrenor's behavior toward the dark elves. It's somewhat humerus though, some of the things they say.

 

But anyway, Ulfric hasnt begun mass murders of the Dunmer and theres no evidence that he will start either. Ulfric is busy with the war and cannot solve all the problems ( he isnt perfect as I have made clear) The Dunmer are perfectly capable of helping themselves as Belyn Hlaalu has shown (A Nord works for him)

 

The Nords dont see the Argonians as equals, no one does, Im not saying I agree with it but its true. The Argonians have a history of being assassins, thieves, bandits (every race has some as well). If I were Ulfric I would allow Argonians into my city either. And one of my characters is an Argonian.

 

You cant claim the Nords are oppressing the Dunmer if 2 Nords are racist. Thats a gross generalization, I actually like the Dunmer (3rd favorite race) and I love the ones on Solstheim and in Morrowind. But most of them are not working and or doing anything to help themselves.

 

I adore Ulfric because he has repeatedly shown that he is willing to do what he has to for his people. Ulfric is an honest racist. Tullius is not. Tullius obviously thinks he is better than Rikke, we all know that he's not, he sees the Nords as a resource and not as a people. Ulfric sees them as people and treats them like it. However he did put all the citizens to the sword but so did TM II, Im not say "Its okay because Titus did it too." Im just pointing out that Ulfric isnt alone.

 

The Dunmer are guilty of putting pride before their own people.

 

How would they be divided if the Stormcloaks win? They are attempting, as we speak, to gain alliances. They arent to prideful to see that alone Skyrim will have trouble. They are willing to die to be free though. We look at the Battle of Thermopylae and use it as a basis for military strategy everywhere. Even though it was a defeat. They Spartans stood up against Tyranny and lost. But the fact that they stood up against it is what put them down in history. I would rather the Stormcloaks lose the next war and all die than side with the Empire. After what it has done it doesnt deserve to continue.

Edited March 6, 2013 by HighkingUlfricStormcloak

[fraquar]

I have to be honest here, there is one scenario that would make any racist question whether Ulfric has done lost his friggen mind if he truly is the racist everyone here makes him out to be.

 

If you were a racist, how on earth would you allow a Dunmer bard to ply their trade in what is pretty much otherwise hallowed ground for a Nord - Candlehearth Hall - a meadhall???? Seriously, a Dunmer singing Nord ballads while you are trying to socialize and get AWAY from the Dunmer?

 

You'd figure that alone would give "suggested racist" Windhelm Nords reason to raze the Palace of the Kings, drag Ulfric out kicking and screaming and put him on the block.

 

Maybe Ulfric truly has lost his mind afterall - or people might want to at least ponder their use of "racist" - if for nothing than a brief moment put yourself in a Nords shoes and contemplate that scenario.